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- Sep 10, 2009
Evan is boring, with quad or not. He always was.
Lysacek not ready to commit to Skate America - Eyes 2014 Olympics
- Thread starter gsk8
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I think that Lysacek will be 28 and Plushenko 31 at the time of 2014 Olympics.
About Lysacek and quad, I sure hope that he will be able to practice his quad without injuries. In 2007 Nationals he had a beautiful quad-triple combination, but next season he had to withdraw from 2008 Worlds because of an injury and in 2009 Worlds he suffered from an injury, too (he won though). I have understood that both injuries were quad-related. And still in 2009 fall he was not able to train the quad much, because of those old injuries.
And as skating fans are counting all those quads some skaters have been performing now, one has to include the fact that one gets injuries from practicing quads, injuries that prevent one either totally from competing or just training the quad. That can happen to anyone... Lots of water will be flowing in river Volga before the Olympics will be held...
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- Jun 16, 2010
Chan does everything better than Evan. If Chan skates well with 3 quads, Evan will need a program of nothing but quads and a quintruple jump to come close. I really dont think Evan will even follow through on his comeback. He knows he cant compete with someone like Chan unless he gets injured.
I think you are also wrong on Kozuka. Kozuka scored higher in the Moscow LP than Evan ever has in a LP by well over 10 points.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
Pretty much. Heck that is probably where Evan and Evgeny would have finished at the last Olympics if Takahashi, Lambiel, Chan, Abbott, and "maybe" Joubert had all skated their best.
One cannot compare scores like that, especially as there has been changes in the scoring. The fact is that in Worlds or Olympics were they competed against each other, Kozuka did not have a higher score.
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- Jun 16, 2010
Actually one can compare scores like that when the difference is that huge and it is only one year apart. It is not like anyone, apart from Chan who is skating at a level 3 times higher than Evan or Plushenko did last year, the scores have gone up since last year. For instance Ando won Worlds with a point total 35 points lower than Kim in Vancouver (granted Ando is a not even close as a skater compared to a good Kim but that is another topic). Kozuka was scoring lower than everyone when he was competing against Evan so your point is no point. He was only the #3 Japanese, but now as the #1 Japanese he is exploding and coming into his own. Kozuka got a higher TES than Chan in the LP at Worlds, something Evan even with a quad would never be capable of doing if Chan skated nearly clean with 2 (as he did at Worlds).
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- Aug 18, 2010
Isn't it sad that Lysacek was a quadless and now over-the-hill skater whom still no clear figure could surpass this year in America? Lysacek wasn't ever seen as having much of technics and artistry except his competitiveness. Now a large part of this competitiveness is chipped away by the changes in current scoring for quad jumps and more, as well as his age and the fact of being a year away from competitions. I thought Lysacek would be clever enough to never come back. But the reality is that either he hasn't found his permanent spot outside of competitions, or he wants to prove that he is a "legend" too.
Any way if he comes back this season, I believe he is still competitive in USA. Regarding to the world stage? not so much. He made it very clear that he'll continue to use his famous/infamous calculated effort to find the cracks in the scoring system and try to win. Good or bad? I have mixed feelings.
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The issue is Kozuka version Moscow 2011 cannot be compared with his previous showings, as he had the skate of his life. Plus he is a young athlete who is still developing at 21. As Kurt Browning said many times, he sees Kozuka as Chan's main rival comes Sochi (of course if someone else doesn't make a big move in the mean time).
About Lysacek, you cannot be sure he is still the leading american man, until you see what the rest will do this year either. Of course you never know, perhaps Evan comes back with lots off quads...right
But what if he will want to go to Sochi only to be part of another Olympics? What happened to the Olympic spirit? It sahould be all about participating, not just winning.
Evan will need everything to fall into place like last time where better skaters like Stephane, Takahashi, Chan are off on their game imo. It always happens at the Olympics in at least one discipline...it's usually on the ladies side. Really I don't even like Chan but I can see that he's better than Evan. If both were clean it wouldn't even be a contest. Who knows really. I don't even know if winning or making the podium is Evan's goal. I think he just likes to compete. I think he missed the rigid scheduling of practicing and competing.
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- Nov 7, 2007
It's quite possible that if Mroz can produce more than just one 4Lz (and some other 4 jumps) that he could be the leading man.
I highly doubt this will happen, unless Mroz substantially improves his skating skills (which significantly and quite obviously pales in comparison next to the current top men), gets some real choreography and at least pretends to interpret the music somewhat. Even if Mroz gets his 4Lz solid and ups the rest of his jump content, he's just going to be screwed over by low PCS while getting decent TES, sort of like Kevin van der Perren when he's on.
Brandon Mroz has both his new programs done by Jeffrey Buttle, so I am assuming those will be
"real" choreography. A witness who posted on another forum i am subscribed to, mentioned the whole new SP looked very good, not just his 4 lutz. I think Mroz will be a contender in the US field this year.
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- Mar 25, 2008
His 2008 injury had nothing to do with the quad, surely as an Evan fan you know this? According to the press release from that time, his blade broke training a 3A and he fell. And to hear all the talk about Evan bravely persevering after a stress fracture that was diagnosed a full year before the Olympics, one would think no other skater had any medical issues going in to the Olympic season and during it.
Daisuke Takahashi, who could have won the OGM if he'd skated conservatively like Evan, tore his ACL during the 2008-9 season (it wasn't on a quad, either). And many other skaters dealt with serious medical issues, too: Chan had what was probably an undiagnosed case of H1N1 and tore a calf muscle (nothing to do with training quads), Joubert had a bad foot injury during the season (happened on a 3Lz, not a quad), Plushenko had issues, Stephane, Verner... Evan was lucky to be in relatively good health compared to many of the other contenders. He made a strategic choice not to attempt a quad, and it paid off; I wish he and his fans would own up to that rather than playing up the injury angle.1. As a rule, I agree that one cannot compare scores between events and seasons. However, most of the changes to the scoring after 2010 led to lower, not higher scores: key among them were the lower GOE units for triples and the removal of the second step sequence from the SP. So a skater whose marks shot up in the past season likely improved despite the changes, not because of them. SP scores went way down for most skaters (Chan being an exception, and I think the judges go a bit too GOE-happy with him at times) and LP scores weren't that high once you look past Kozuka/Chan. Those two simply took their skating to a higher level the past season compared to the past. If you want to talk about overscoring, the Olympics were the worst. Skaters got PBs for programs that were nowhere near their best - that all of Lambiel's PBs are from Vancouver tells you all you need to know, I think.
2. herios, I agree that Kozuka iwas great in Moscow, but I would argue that his improvement could be seen earlier in the season, too. I was fortunate to see him skate live at the 2010 TEB and was seriously impressed, as were my friends who attended.
We'll see how much of the original choreo and feel of the programs is retained. Jeff can put together great programs, but he won't be the one skating them in competition... I remember some talk last year that Mroz had gotten Sandra Bezic to work with him, and the programs would be great, and he'll be more expressive, and yet seeing him at TEB was just sleep-inducing. He has no charisma, and even he looked bored. Unless he can somehow change himself into a more charismatic skater, and I find that doubtful, all the 4Lzs in the world won't help him get to the top of the podium internationally (US Nats can be weird).
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- Nov 19, 2010
As often as I have defended Lysacek's Olympics win, I don't care to watch any of his skates a second time. Not one of my favorites, but he is a great competitior, as can be seen from his competition results, in contrast with my favorite American Man Jeremy Abbott. His landing on the US podium is almost assured and chances of him being on the National Team are very high as well.
However, internationally, he has to deal with Chan who is both technically and mentally strong and had beaten Lysacek except for 2009-10, and Kozuka, whose mental fortitude has been improving and may have been greatly bolstered by his Worlds medal. Plushenko is extremely competitive both by his nature and his status, more so than Lysacek. (There are OGMs and then there are OGMs.) There are other top skaters who are not equally strong technically and mentally, including some young talents, who have legit chances on the Worlds and Olympic podium comes 2014.
It's hard to tell what Lysacek's real motivation is. He talks about liking to train and compete and being happy enough to have won Worlds and Olympics, but fidgeting with jump layouts to gain COP points sure sounds like winning matters very much.
However, internationally, he has to deal with Chan who is both technically and mentally strong and had beaten Lysacek except for 2009-10, and Kozuka, whose mental fortitude has been improving and may have been greatly bolstered by his Worlds medal. Plushenko is extremely competitive both by his nature and his status, more so than Lysacek. (There are OGMs and then there are OGMs.) There are other top skaters who are not equally strong technically and mentally, including some young talents, who have legit chances on the Worlds and Olympic podium comes 2014.
It's hard to tell what Lysacek's real motivation is. He talks about liking to train and compete and being happy enough to have won Worlds and Olympics, but fidgeting with jump layouts to gain COP points sure sounds like winning matters very much.
Should add that level 4 step sequences have been easier to get. Getting so much GOE on level 3's was invaluable to Lysaceks Olympic victory if he could get level 4's on steps he could maybe again avoid quads and hope that GOE changes would be trumped by step sequence level 4's. One thing that the 2008-2010 years showed was that men who were absolutely determined not to do quads could get points elsewhere which made quad ability irrelevent to skating for 2 years including the Olympics.
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- Mar 25, 2008
Actually, if they're easier to get, it's not to Lysacek's benefit, because footwork was an area where he usually did well, even getting level 4s on occasion. More skaters getting high levels = he can't differentiate himself based on that area of his skating. And again, there are now only two step sequences with levels between the two programs, compared with 4 in 2010. There doesn't appear to be that much variance in scores on the choreo steps in the LP - most skaters get between +1 and +2, a few people will get maybe 2.5 or so, and negative GOEs are almost impossible to achieve.
You now have a lot of skaters who came up with CoP and are able to make the most from the non-jump elements, so they have push it with the jump content if they want to separate themselves from the pack. I can't see Evan doing that; he will have to bank on his consistency and hope that others make mistakes - multiple mistakes, in some cases - if he wants to be competitive.
I´d expect that of course Evan tries to get as many CoP points as possible. It does not mean that his goal is to win, he just tries to do his best, in my opinion.
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- Aug 18, 2010
Try to do whatever he could, and pray stars line up again for him. Really, I can't see why he comes back? To prove that he is not quadless like everyone said? Or just like Weir, makes effort to stay in the spotlight?
Try to do whatever he could, and pray stars line up again for him. Really, I can't see why he comes back? To prove that he is not quadless like everyone said? Or just like Weir, makes effort to stay in the spotlight?
I think Evan stays in for the same reason many skaters stay in: they love to compete. There's nothing mysterious about it. What else in life can give the adrenaline rush of getting out there in the field of competition? There are many basketball, football (American and world style), and hockey players who feel the same way. Why are they still there? Well, many of them would say, "Where else would I be?"
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- Mar 25, 2008
I don't think there's anything wrong with it. The only thing is, Evan has achieved everything there is to achieve in skating. He has nothing left to prove, results-wise. So what I'd like to see him do, if he really intends to return, is focus less on counting every point and more on trying new things artistically and becoming a better performing (SL step sequence to dramatic music at the end does not equal "better performer"). Skating to something original would be a good place to start, and getting choreo done by someone other than Lori Nichol.
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