Lysacek out of Grand Prix; at odds with USFS

jcoates said:

An athlete can be passionate about his/her sport and still fight to be recognized for his worth. After all this is the year of athlete pay/rights vs owners/leagues/federations' profit margins. We wouldn't begrudge a business exercising the right to charge a fair price for their product. Evan is his own product.

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IIRC, Kwan got payed for appearing in events and Evan is an Olympic champion... As I head the news, I thought that he has pulled out because of an injury. Not long ago there were postings about him wearing something in his foot. Not a cast, but unfortunately I have forgotten the right word.

But still I believe, that pulling out because of a money issue, is not such a good idea for a skater. I have understood that Evan has always got along with USFSA well and in my opinion he should keep doing that, if he plans to return to competitions.

It's all well and good to blame Evan, but this has happened a lot with SA in the past. The advertising seems to be always claiming some star of the recent past is coming to Skate America, and the face of the person is all over the ads just long enough to sell whatever seats the big name can draw in, and then they don't show up. Both Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen have been part of the advertising, but didn't show up for the competition one year or another.

I'm shocked, shocked that Evan Lysacek will not be skating GPs. I wonder who'll get the TEB assignment? Not that I'm going this year, but the hours are more compatible with my schedule than SA.

I agree with those who wrote that skaters are professional athletes and should be compensated as such - with the caveat that skaters are compensated for GPs, via the prize money they can win. If skaters think that the prize money isn't enough, certainly that's their right; but I don't think anyone should be getting an appearance fee for deigning to show up at a competition. If this is about ongoing funding from USFSA, that's another matter.

Speaking of Meryl Davis and her new condo, I imagine with the real estate market in the US being what it is, it's not too difficult to afford to buy a home if you have a decent income?

Buttercup said:

I'm shocked, shocked that Evan Lysacek will not be skating GPs. I wonder who'll get the TEB assignment? Not that I'm going this year, but the hours are more compatible with my schedule than SA.

I agree with those who wrote that skaters are professional athletes and should be compensated as such - with the caveat that skaters are compensated for GPs, via the prize money they can win. If skaters think that the prize money isn't enough, certainly that's their right; but I don't think anyone should be getting an appearance fee for deigning to show up at a competition. If this is about ongoing funding from USFSA, that's another matter.

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Appearance fees have long been a part of skating. Kurt Browning was almost a "no show" over appearance fees at the 1990 Goodwill Games.

jcoates said:

Ballroom dance is judged aethetically, considered a sport and competed completely professionally for prize money.

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Dancesport has Professional championships of the WDC and Amature championships of IDSF. The last one is recognized as sport by IOC.

CoyoteChris said:

Personally, as an American tax payer and the USFSA being a non profit org that doesnt pay taxes, I think I have a right to see its books, but I guess no one else agrees with me.

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Like all non-profits, USFA must file financial documents with the U.S. government. These are part of the public record and quite a bit of information is available on line. It is really hard to search out, however.

legal vs moral

I think both the USFSA abd Evan L should be ashamed of themselves . I am one of many who have shelled out a fair dollar for tickets to the Mens Short and Long programs specifically to see Evan.

I agree with the poster who asked why Evan announced his entry before coming to terms with the USFSA. And why was this allowed to go down to the wire - this should have been negotiated months ago .

I also feel that trying to compare skating to other sports such as tennis is not really a true comparison because the other sports, sadly , have a much bigger fan base that figure skating.

I think everybody involved in our beloved sport should be thinking of one thing and one thing alone at this point in time - doing everything in their power to promate interest in the sport , rebuild the diminished fan base and get back to being significant enough to warrant decent TV coverage, major sponsorship deals etc.

So , Evan may be legally right ( especially about the use of his image thing ) but morally he is striking a blow to a sport that has given him a great deal in his young life . This same sport is on the ropes , he is in postion to help the situation and he turns his back . I am sorry to say this but I think this a very selfish act and one that may prove to be harmful to him personally in terms of image, fan support and much needed competiton experience.

Well, I say, Go Evan! One thing I hope is that he eventually makes enough money to hire someone to compose his press releases for him. There are three grammatical mistakes in these two sentences. (“Inform” is transitive, he is extremely well-trained, and the agreement is between “USFS and me.” )

I regret to inform that I am withdrawing from the 2011 Grand Prix Series. I am extremely trained and eager to compete at Skate America, but a suitable agreement could not be reached between US Figure Skating and myself by the event entry deadline.

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Mathman said:

Like all non-profits, USFA must file financial documents with the U.S. government. These are part of the public record and quite a bit of information is available on line. It is really hard to search out, however.

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Best bet is to go to Guidestar.org and get their 990, which is the form all nonprofits have to submit to the IRS. You have to have an account, but it's free. I got their last one, which is for the 2009-2010 fiscal year.

Overall expenses during that period was $14.5 million and income was $12.5 million, so they lost money. It's not clear how much they spent on appearance fees as there isn't a category for that in the expenses.

gottadance said:

I think both the USFSA abd Evan L should be ashamed of themselves . I am one of many who have shelled out a fair dollar for tickets to the Mens Short and Long programs specifically to see Evan.

I agree with the poster who asked why Evan announced his entry before coming to terms with the USFSA. And why was this allowed to go down to the wire - this should have been negotiated months ago .

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Last year, when I was trying to decide whether to go to TEB again (it's not exactly a quick hop for me), I asked myself how I'd feel if Brian Joubert ended up not competing. It was not as good a field as in 2009, fewer of my favorites were entered, and there were some WDs, so all the more important to have my favorites stick it out, right? But I eventually decided that I was not going just to see one skater, and that whatever happens, I'll just enjoy the trip and the competition (I realize I had a more attractive destination ). Fast forward to LP day: the second men's warmup group was at the boards, and no sign of Joubert. We eventually figured out that he'd withdrawn. And you know what? It wasn't that big a deal. I still got to see some good performances - there were some nice SPs, Aliona and Robin's Pink Panther was a lot of fun, and Kozuka was really wonderful in the LP. I'm sure it's a disappointment to you now, but I hope you'll get to see some great performances that will make it worthwhile.

I do agree that it would have been preferable to iron out the details well in advance, though.

I guess the thing I'll fuss at with Evan is he's telling everyone (or Phil Hersh) anyway: "I never told the USFSA that was I going to compete in Skate America, just that they could put my name in!"

One could argue that there's a practice of putting in one's name and dropping out is common, but still...to blackout and say "Well I never committed anyway" is a bit of a cope-out, IMO.

Which I guess puts me in the "he should have settled everything before he was entered" camp.

Whatever his legal rights and however wrong the USFSA may be on their part, Lysacek will have consequences from this incident. He's alienated some fans and the USFSA, possibly lost some respect from some fellow skaters, and possibly weakened his competitiveness without the GP events. As I posted earlier, there are only two US spots for Worlds, he's somehow jeopardized his seemingly guaranteed berth.

Of course, I don't really know what exactly he wants and tries to accomplish. Maybe none of the above matters to him.

Honestly - I would never go to a competition just because of ONE entry on the list. Injuries happen, comebacks don't happen, too many variables to be sure my favorite will be there. I know others go just for one person and then leave, it's not only rude to the other skaters but it does nothing for the sport. Yes, Evan is a big name draw for those that don't follow the sport as closely (ie the average joe looking for something to do that weekend) but honestly one athlete does not make or break an event. And if it does then it's time to pack the event in and go home.

Tonichelle said:

Honestly - I would never go to a competition just because of ONE entry on the list. Injuries happen, comebacks don't happen, too many variables to be sure my favorite will be there. I know others go just for one person and then leave, it's not only rude to the other skaters but it does nothing for the sport. Yes, Evan is a big name draw for those that don't follow the sport as closely (ie the average joe looking for something to do that weekend) but honestly one athlete does not make or break an event. And if it does then it's time to pack the event in and go home.

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I'm not going, but I definitely think those who do will be fine. You got some up-and-coming Americans (the reigning Nat'l silver medalist and two top 10 finishers), the reigning silver World medalist, plus some other great European skaters.

jcoates said:

Sorceror...How is skating's existence as a judged sport (aesthetic or otherwise) in any way a reason for it to not be professional? Ballroom dance is judged aethetically, considered a sport and competed completely professionally for prize money. ....

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Jcoates, you made a point bringing out ballroom dance; true it has both pro and amateur comps that are aesthetically judged, but I don't think it proves what you want to say.
Because one, pro dance comps by WDC is not an IOC recognized sport; and because two, such comps are for professional dancers but not the main/only stage for the dancers to be called "professional" by.

Figure skating can have pro comps beside amateur comps in the above sense anytime anywhere.
In that limited sense yes figure skating can show itself also in form of a sport for pros.

But when I say that the the main portion of this olympic sport should remain amateur, it's because the inevitable "collective subjectivity" of the judges, which determine much of the sport's results, can't/shouldn't be responsible for the economical interests created when/if the sport becomes the only stage for the participants to be called "pro"s by (such as in NFL, etc, etc).
Measured objectivity yes can be responsible for such.

This is also connected with the seamless upgrading from novice to senior or the seamless sub-regional to Worlds sequence of amateur figure skating. There is no "pro" tests or registerations that mark the end of a skater's amateur status.
You start as amateur novice and (if talented and lucky) end up in senior champion as amateur.
There is no crossing border where your amateur status becomes a "fallacy".

Being able to perform in shows, ISU rules' loopholes, prize money, expense compensations,... these are basically secondary factors (though important). Being able to keep a living by them does not necessarily mean being pro with it. Especially in spirit.

I always liked Evan but here it looks as if he confused GPs with SOI ... and really, what did he gain?
Extremely (well) trained, he says. He now has to prove his words.


ETA1: Doris, it's the reason of Evan's withdrawal that matters, not the withdrawal itself.

ETA2: Jcoates, if possible don't use unnecessary negative adjectives next time.

Toni, I completely agree with you. If skating is to succeed in growing an audience, it can't continue to depend exclusively on marketing events around one main attraction. That's mismanagement IMO. Just because it's a niche sport doesn't mean it can't be a healthy and viable one.

Mathman said:

There are three grammatical mistakes in these two sentences. (“Inform” is transitive)

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The entire "that-clause" in his statement serves as the direct object of the transitive verb "inform". The indirect object "you", though absent, is implied (e.g., "I am giving (you) my two-cents"). Although pragmatically, it is not as eloquent as desired, syntactically speaking, I would not say it is ungrammatical, especially from the view of descriptive grammar.

Similarly, "myself" can be used reflexively as the object of a preposition and hence "between USFS and myself" (considered as "bad" writing by many) or "between USFS and me” is in fact a question of style rather than grammar.

I have to admit Mrs. P has brought up an excellent sticky issue. If Evan was not misquoted when he said, "I never told the USFSA that was I going to compete in Skate America, just that they could put my name in!"
Then the USFSA has the most egg on its face, trying to make up all that money they lost last year. Cry wolf too many times and no one believes you. They might as well have announced Michelle and Sasha were going to skate and really upped the advanced sales and NBC TV funds....SkateAmerica is a great event and I will still go to it and 4 Conts so I can see off shore skaters.....but this whole "Skating for Dollars" thing has cast a pall over this event. I wonder what NBC is now thinking and what their ratings will be?

the only problem i have is this, if he kinda of knew he wasn't going. he shouldn't have stated he would go . i understand the payoff with the possiblity of him going, however (for me) if he was more than 75% (sure) he wasn't going . he shouldn't have stated he was.

i just feel sorry for the people who bought the tickets expecting, hoping he would show, skate and see his progression. sorry.

fscric, yes it is,
i am surprised they was that honest. i do applaud him regarding that,