- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
YNK + PC. 
Or are they the same person in two different costumes?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJjwVtTsS_8
Or are they the same person in two different costumes?!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJjwVtTsS_8
LADIES LONG PROGRAM Thread
- Thread starter christinaskater
- Start date
That 3-3 at the beginning was one of the best I've ever seen.
This is the sad thing about Carolina. She has the artistry, the speed, the flow and even the jumps to be spectacular.
On Sunday she didn't skate the best program of her life technically, but I've never seen her skate a LP with that much control and ease.
But if Carolina wants to win gold medals, she has to go for it. She was only a few points behind Alissa. But instead of going on the attack, she put down a nice, but beatable, LP at Skate America. She needs to re-discover her lutz and her 3-3 and skate to win. I recommend that she watch Michelle's LPs at 2000 and 2001 Worlds for inspiration. In both cases, Michelle was behind after the short program. She came out and skated perfect, technically difficult programs and dared her rivals to beat them. They didn't.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
Give credit to Alissa for going for the harder jumps, but the point is she only rotated 3 triples in her FS to Carolina's 5 clean triples. I can't believe I'm defending Kostner, but there was nothing wrong with the FS she delivered. It was the best of the night. The reason she lost this competition was because of bad scoring. I love Alissa and I'm so proud of her, but those PCS she got were BS. No way should she have beat Carolina in PCS. She's nowhere near as fast as Carolina, she had no transitions into her jumps, she had several errors, and (though nice) her program wasn't as good as Carolina's. If this were a fairly judged competition, Carolina would have won. Hell, if they even managed to judge the SP right, Carolina would have won. Alissa clearly URed her 3f in the SP, but they did not call it and she got full credit and ended up with a bigger than necessarily lead going into the LP. Take away those "boost" points and Carolina wins.
Alissa received the treatment Carolina usually gets: bad skating = boost in score to keep you in the standings. Yes Alissa looked lovely and her spins were the best of the competition...but she didn't deserve that win.
Alissa received the treatment Carolina usually gets: bad skating = boost in score to keep you in the standings. Yes Alissa looked lovely and her spins were the best of the competition...but she didn't deserve that win.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
last year Carolina found a way to win by sticking to the easier tech content. She relied on everyone else to make mistakes, which they did. It should have worked here, too.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
This result is what both skaters needed. We may disagree, but in the long run:
1. Alissa has become more confident. I do not think she will want to eke out a win like that again; I think she wants to prove she can be a home-run skater.
2. Losing this close can be a motivating factor for Carolina. She has a triple lutz. She just needs to use it.
1. Alissa has become more confident. I do not think she will want to eke out a win like that again; I think she wants to prove she can be a home-run skater.
2. Losing this close can be a motivating factor for Carolina. She has a triple lutz. She just needs to use it.
i would have had carolina win too but i'm not jumping on the wuzrobbing train because the scores were so close to each other. this is nothing like Yukari Nakano at the worlds in sweden, where she had the best FS of the night IMO and still scored wayyyy out of medal contention, when she had a reasonable SP score.
but does anybody agree that Joelle was underscored in PCS?
but does anybody agree that Joelle was underscored in PCS?
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
My quick thoughts and sad realization...
1. Alissa and Carolina were both the class of the field, so I while I understand the varying opinions of who should've won and the techical merits of both I'm still dealing with the realization that Alissa & Carolina were the class of the field, period. And good for them - it's a long time coming.
2. I am sad to confess that I am officially over Caroline Zhang... She's like a bad high school boyfriend: in the morning, remembers to pick you up for school so you're heartbroken that afternoon when he blows you off and you're forced to walk home in the rain... I wish her all the luck & blessings in the world and pray that she makes me eat crow, but I'm sorry. I simply can't do it anymore.
1. Alissa and Carolina were both the class of the field, so I while I understand the varying opinions of who should've won and the techical merits of both I'm still dealing with the realization that Alissa & Carolina were the class of the field, period. And good for them - it's a long time coming.
2. I am sad to confess that I am officially over Caroline Zhang... She's like a bad high school boyfriend: in the morning, remembers to pick you up for school so you're heartbroken that afternoon when he blows you off and you're forced to walk home in the rain... I wish her all the luck & blessings in the world and pray that she makes me eat crow, but I'm sorry. I simply can't do it anymore.
Re: Caroline. It' s just too sad to see someone not be able to put together a decent LP two years in a row. And, with all the nerve-wracking jump attempts, the performance aspect goes out the window completely. In figure skating, struggling to make it and then falling apart is not fun to watch. That's why Kostner now is such a goldmine. She makes figure skating look fun and easy. It all happens so smoothly and effortlessly that the viewer can' t help but enjoy himself. Alyssa is not quite there yet. She has a lovely smile and a gentle, smooth style that does make her skating seem effortless to an extent. However, she' s still a bit nervous. But even so, she' s lovely and elegant.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think Alissa should drop the 3Lz+3T. To me, it looked like that attempt just threw the whole rest of the program off. Alissa's problem is not the lack of a triple-triple. She lost 3.99 GOEs on her first 6 jumps, and it would have been more except that some of the negative GOEs were discounted by downgrades. She had 2 downgrades, 1 under-rotation, an "e", a fall, and a doubled Salchow.
She should do 3Lz+2T, 3'lip, 3Lo, 3Lz, 2A+2T+2Lo, then for her last two passes she could do 3S if she really has it (otherwise 3T) and 3Lo+2T. That is a a higher base value than last year. The emphasis should be on getting the rotations and bringing the GOEs on jumps up to 0, then cash in the spins and PCSs. There is no need to try to do 7 triples. The last two Olympics were won with six and five.
She should do 3Lz+2T, 3'lip, 3Lo, 3Lz, 2A+2T+2Lo, then for her last two passes she could do 3S if she really has it (otherwise 3T) and 3Lo+2T. That is a a higher base value than last year. The emphasis should be on getting the rotations and bringing the GOEs on jumps up to 0, then cash in the spins and PCSs. There is no need to try to do 7 triples. The last two Olympics were won with six and five.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
But does Kostner really deserve your praise? I couldn't sit back and enjoy her performance because I kept waiting for the mistakes... same with Alissa. I'm glad that both had a standout weekend but long term? Not so sure... granted, both could have repeats of last season's successes with even better results at Worlds. That's my hope but it's always so difficult to get a clear picture with the first event of the season... However, if either is going to have a break out season - this is a prime opportunity as the field is clear for some new faces on the world podium.
Are we talking about the same Kostner who skated two of the worse programs i have ever seen a top lady skate at Worlds in 09 then the Olympics a year later?
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
I decided to compare Alissa's SA's protocol vs JO's.
She had the same elements in both competitions. The SA judges were not kinder in TES than the JO ones. She received total GOE of 2.53 at JO and 2.34 at SA , nothing out of range there. The difference lies with the calls of the Tech Panel. In Japan, she had 2 << (3Lz+3T<< and 3Lo<<+2T), 2< (3Lz< and 2A+2T+2Lo<) whereas at SA, she had 2 << (3Lz+3T<< and 3F<<) and 1 < (3Lz), but with an edge call on the 3F<< as well. The spin and step levels were the same for both competitions. The Tech calls resulted in a increase of (49.03 - 48.35 =) 0.68 in BV for SA.
TES JO = 50.88 (48.35 BV + 2.53 GOE)
TES SA = 51.37 (49.o3 BV + 2.34 GOE)
PCS JO = 57.76
PCS SA = 62.91
Total JO = 107.64
Total SA = 113.28
Conclusion:
At SA, the Tech Panel ratified more jumps though the judges didn't think the element executions had improved. However, they (the SA judges) saw a leap in her skating and presentation. They particularly liked her Transition/Footwork and awarded her an extra 1.00 there, 1.60 factored.
Her future scores will likely depend on how much the judges will like her skating (PCS) or how much she keeps improving in that area.
She had the same elements in both competitions. The SA judges were not kinder in TES than the JO ones. She received total GOE of 2.53 at JO and 2.34 at SA , nothing out of range there. The difference lies with the calls of the Tech Panel. In Japan, she had 2 << (3Lz+3T<< and 3Lo<<+2T), 2< (3Lz< and 2A+2T+2Lo<) whereas at SA, she had 2 << (3Lz+3T<< and 3F<<) and 1 < (3Lz), but with an edge call on the 3F<< as well. The spin and step levels were the same for both competitions. The Tech calls resulted in a increase of (49.03 - 48.35 =) 0.68 in BV for SA.
TES JO = 50.88 (48.35 BV + 2.53 GOE)
TES SA = 51.37 (49.o3 BV + 2.34 GOE)
PCS JO = 57.76
PCS SA = 62.91
Total JO = 107.64
Total SA = 113.28
Conclusion:
At SA, the Tech Panel ratified more jumps though the judges didn't think the element executions had improved. However, they (the SA judges) saw a leap in her skating and presentation. They particularly liked her Transition/Footwork and awarded her an extra 1.00 there, 1.60 factored.
Her future scores will likely depend on how much the judges will like her skating (PCS) or how much she keeps improving in that area.
Last edited:
Alissa nitpicking on:
I don't like how "disconnected" her spins are! It's like she skates, stops, then "here comes my signature spin", then bam! She spins so fast, irrespective of the mood and speed of the music. As an element by itself I appreciate it, especially the speed. But it doesn't flow. I fondly remember how Michelle used to "spin to the music". Ditto Mao (especially @ 4CC last year).
Nitpicking off
I don't like how "disconnected" her spins are! It's like she skates, stops, then "here comes my signature spin", then bam! She spins so fast, irrespective of the mood and speed of the music. As an element by itself I appreciate it, especially the speed. But it doesn't flow. I fondly remember how Michelle used to "spin to the music". Ditto Mao (especially @ 4CC last year).
Nitpicking off
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
This is not Alissa's fault (any more than the scoring is) but another reason I'm displeased about her unfair win is the way Scott Hamilton would NOT shut up about how fabulous she is... twice saying, "everything you want in a ladies' skater." All I could think was that he thinks she can get people to come to SOI. Sorry, Scott - you don't speak for me. I want speed, jumps, flow, musicality, good music, choreography, and personality. Alissa's very good and has earned most of her recent successes but let's not get carried away.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Country
-
Actually, I would be significantly more likely to go to SOI if they had Carolina than if they had Alissa. But Scott seems totally stuck on the idea of Alissa.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
You are far more charitable to Scott Hamilton that I am.
I agree. I had this feeling after she did the triple triple attempt that she would be distracted and miss the flip. Which she did. I am glad she is challenging herself and all but I'm not surprised it the 3-3 was UR. Last year, Alissa would have medaled at worlds if she had not fallen, triple triple or no. So, I don't think her problem is the lack of a triple triple either. When she finished skating at SA I thought, well, she'll get the silver, congrats to Carolina. I was surprised that she got one of the highest PCS of her career with that performance. It wasn't a bad performance but I think you could sort of tell she was thinking about her missed flip throughout. Still, I was thrilled for her and a lovely short.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
In Alissa's case, it might be similar to the "Tarasova" approach of loading your skater up with trying difficulty early in the season/quad then backing down later to what used to be a stretch for the skater to accomplish in a program but is now "easy". ::shrugs:: just a thought...
