Ladies - Long Program | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Ladies - Long Program

skateflower

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
I'm not the best judge of underrotation but it looked to me like Adelina landed on the same place where she took off, so how would that be underrotated.

She rotated almost 360 degrees on the ice for that '3loop' combo after landing the first 3flip. She also cheated a bit on the landing of that 3loop. The on-air rotations of that combo might be just short of 2 instead of 3. It's so blatant. I'm sure you can do a quad if you're allowed to rotate 4 circles on the ice.

I know it's typical to pre-rotate a 3loop. However, if the technical specialists kept on downgrading Miki and Mao's 3+3loop combos, they should downgrade this girl's as well. They need to apply the same standard.
 
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burntBREAD

Medalist
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
She rotated almost 360 degrees on the ice for that '3loop' combo after landing the first 3flip. She also cheated a bit on the landing of that 3loop. The on-air rotations of that combo might be just short of 2 instead of 3. It's so blatant. I'm sure you can do a quad if you're allowed to rotate 4 circles on the ice.

I know it's typical to pre-rotate a 3loop. However, if the technical specialists kept on downgrading Miki and Mao's 3+3loop combos, they should downgrade this girl's as well. They need to apply the same standard.

While I think the tech panel was a little overly harsh on some occasions with Asada and Ando, the reason why their 3-3loops were being downgraded was because they were underrotated on the landing, it had little to do with the prerotation. Sotnikova makes the rotation on the landing, so it's not underrotated.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Oh you meant her position rather than the location. Well, it's the take off and landing position of the skate that matter, not her body position.

Yes i meant where she took off position wise, and where it looked like she landed. And I said I'm not an expert too.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
AFAIR, prerotation counts, and not in a good way, even in 6.0. In fact, excessive prerotation on a 3T gets called a toe axel, and is why Amber Corwin did not get much credit for her many 3T3T's.

And more to the point, Evan Lysacek used to get his 3A downgraded because of prerotation earlier in the COP era..
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
^ Ha where did you hear that from?:p;)


Is there a video of a pre-rotated 3toe to see how it looks like?
 

havefun

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
The cheats were bad if you watch them on slowmo. I also think she is starting to deal with puberty issues. The second triple on the combo was more than a half. That will catch up with her in the near future. On that topic did anyone hear Tara Lipinski on Uni Sports dissing Ashley Wagner for not having the technical content ie 3/3 Saying that ladies skating in the US has gone back 20 years. She failed to mention that she was out of the sport before puberty hit and did not compete under IJS. She then raved about the 14 year old that won. IMO winning medals pre puberty means you are a good prepubescent skater. It has little indication of what you are going to do as a full grown lady. Anyway I thought the comment was self serving, arrogant and ignorant. No longer a fan.
 

Binthere

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
I had the exact same feeling of discomfort from Tara's commentary. I find so much to admire about her career, but I find it eye-rollingly irritating when she either feels the need to constantly inject some aspect of her own experience into so much of her commentary. An analyst should have a point of view, but when it is so grossly skewed with caveats, this is irritating. Similarly, lost some respect for her. She was not blogging on her own. She was commentating for Universal Sports.
 

skateflower

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
I had the exact same feeling of discomfort from Tara's commentary. I find so much to admire about her career, but I find it eye-rollingly irritating when she either feels the need to constantly inject some aspect of her own experience into so much of her commentary. An analyst should have a point of view, but when it is so grossly skewed with caveats, this is irritating. Similarly, lost some respect for her. She was not blogging on her own. She was commentating for Universal Sports.

Every commentator has his/her own preference/bias. I found Tara's commentary refreshing. It's also very true that ladies skating in the US has indeed gone back 20 years based on technical content & world rankings.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
...It's also very true that ladies skating in the US has indeed gone back 20 years based on technical content & world rankings.

Actually. 20 years ago (1991) the world podium was Kristi Yamaguchi, Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan. The U.S. would be happy if they could turn the clock back twenty years. :)
 

ILoveFigures

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Every commentator has his/her own preference/bias. I found Tara's commentary refreshing. It's also very true that ladies skating in the US has indeed gone back 20 years based on technical content & world rankings.

On technical content, no. On world rankings, yes.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
I had the exact same feeling of discomfort from Tara's commentary. I find so much to admire about her career, but I find it eye-rollingly irritating when she either feels the need to constantly inject some aspect of her own experience into so much of her commentary. An analyst should have a point of view, but when it is so grossly skewed with caveats, this is irritating. Similarly, lost some respect for her. She was not blogging on her own. She was commentating for Universal Sports.
I agree with you, and I like Tara very much.

Plus, she talks way too much. She needs to rein in on her urge to chat throughout a skater's performance.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
On technical content, no. On world rankings, yes.

Didn't Mathman just show us that US Ladies rankings were the highest ever 20 years back? As for technical content, no American Ladies today comes close to Harding's feat. Twenty years ago was indeed the epitomy of skating glory for American Ladies no other nation has matched.

Mathman said:
Actually. 20 years ago (1991) the world podium was Kristi Yamaguchi, Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan. The U.S. would be happy if they could turn the clock back twenty years.

You got to turn back the clock an hour last night, didn't you? :)
 
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havefun

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
I just don't believe that
- she is in a position to comment at all, let alone negatively on a full grown ladies skills when she has not experienced competition at this stage herself.
- She can compare competing or skating under the 6.0 system as opposed to the IJS. I just checked her lp from nationals when she was 15. She had a glaring flutz and the second loop on her lp/lp was between a half and quarter cheat. That was with low level spins and footwork.

There are few ladies in the world who are completing consistently clean 3/3s (not including toe) without downgrades or
edge calls in the program under pressure. Kudos to those that have hung in there until adulthood. Mirai is still battling growth issues IMO. She appears to have a more womanly body this year and is likely having to make adjustments accordingly. I hope she hangs in there as she is doing great for an 18 year old. Mao Asada is arguably the most talented skater in the last 20 years and has had to make adjustments after growing.

I just found Taras comments to be indicative of her experience or lack there of while at the same time insulting. Maybe she would be better off working the Jr Grand Prixs.
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Tara criticizes the US ladies lack of technical content, but what about Carolina Kostner? She has fashioned success out of failure by stripping the hard stuff out of her programs. She's been getting huge scores ever since. Having a 3/3 doesn't guarantee success, as Sotnikova can attest. Taking risks by attempting harder jumps / jump combinations may not result in a higher placement if the technical panel finds the rotation or jump entry deficient.

CoP is not Tara's 6.0 system, where her egregious flutz was ignored, her 3lo/3lo wasn't subjected to rotational validation, and her minuscule 2a didn't get -GOE for lack of height. She needs to stop referring to her long-ago prowess and take the time to understand that there's no way to guarantee that she would have done as well under the current system as she did under 6.0. Tara should stop talking about herself and concentrate on the skaters about whom she's supposed to be commenting.
 

havefun

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Out of interest I reviewed her Olympic lp
Under IJS.
2 lutz edge calls
2nd 3lp on combo ur if not dg'd
3sal ur on sequence
Layback level 1
Flying camel level 1. No fly .....stopover
1 level 2 and 1 level 3 spin
No transitions or footwork.

That's 5 triples ....2 with edge calls. Hmmmm.....around 80 to 90 points at best for that program.
 
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burntBREAD

Medalist
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Out of interest I reviewed her Olympic lp
Under IJS.
2 lutz edge calls
2nd 3lp on combo ur if not dg'd
3sal ur on sequence
Layback level 1
Flying camel level 1. No fly .....stopover
1 level 2 and 1 level 3 spin
No transitions or footwork.

That's 5 triples ....2 with edge calls. Hmmmm.....around 80 to 90 points at best for that program.

You can't call 6.0 programs under COP. It just doesn't work. They didn't have to gain levels on spins/step sequences, and underrotations/edge calls were not as heavily penalized. You think Hughes, Lipinski, Baiul (just picking the 90s ones, I think Yamaguchi probably still would've won '92) would've scored well for their LPs? No.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Out of interest I reviewed her Olympic lp
Under IJS.
2 lutz edge calls
2nd 3lp on combo ur if not dg'd
3sal ur on sequence
Layback level 1
Flying camel level 1. No fly .....stopover
1 level 2 and 1 level 3 spin
No transitions or footwork.

That's 5 triples ....2 with edge calls. Hmmmm.....around 80 to 90 points at best for that program.

Fair enough on the jumps, but I think it's unfair to judge spins and footwork under 6.0 by COP standards, since skaters under 6.0 didn't have to do pointless things to gain levels and no technical credit was given for footwork.
 
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