Mao needs victory at NHK Trophy to regain confidence
- Thread starter japanice
- Start date
I think Mao should benchmark her success / failure vs. herself, not on the results of an event or other skaters. In this sense, she doesn't necessarily need a victory here to vindicate that she is back. Because results are not something she has control. She could skate very well and score 65 for SP and 120+ for LP, landed Triple Axels in both programs, and still not win the event. Yet, that wouldn't mean she has failed. Quite the contrary, such outcome would boost her confidence greatly knowing that it is already miles better than any events from last season. On the other hand, she could win the event in an all-out splashfest. The value of a win in such case, as you can understand, would be quite questionable.
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2011
Magical "Mayo" will show up. She is a skater for the ages, regardless if her best comp. days are behind her. I personally feel if she is healthy, it is crazy to count her off the podium this year. If Adelina or Liza were competing...diff story, but they are not. I have really enjoyed her career. Japan will always revere her. Amazing artist, amazing athlete. I am rooting for Ashley and Mao.
This story is nonsense. What he called "sight uptick" was a huge triumph for Mao who courageously tackled the difficult work of correcting her jump skills despite of the fact that she was already the two time world champion. Her goal is long term, Sochi in other words, and I am so sure that she will not be discouraged even if she does not win this NHK cup.
I really do not understand that why so many people dismissed her last season. She is the woman who is capable of landing 3A not once, not twice but three times in one comp and as all of you know, it is much more difficult than a man landing 3 quads.
Mao is not just a jumper either. She is artistic and her skating are so smooth and beautiful. She is capable to skate such a beautiful program as " Jupiter."
I sometimes sigh, wondering why Mao does not deserve more respect as one of the greatest skaters ever lived on this planet.:
I really do not understand that why so many people dismissed her last season. She is the woman who is capable of landing 3A not once, not twice but three times in one comp and as all of you know, it is much more difficult than a man landing 3 quads.
Mao is not just a jumper either. She is artistic and her skating are so smooth and beautiful. She is capable to skate such a beautiful program as " Jupiter."
I sometimes sigh, wondering why Mao does not deserve more respect as one of the greatest skaters ever lived on this planet.:
I really do not understand that why so many people dismissed her last season. She is the woman who is capable of landing 3A not once, not twice but three times in one comp and as all of you know, it is much more difficult than a man landing 3 quads.
Mao is not just a jumper either. She is artistic and her skating are so smooth and beautiful. She is capable to skate such a beautiful program as " Jupiter."
I sometimes sigh, wondering why Mao does not deserve more respect as one of the greatest skaters ever lived on this planet.:
Because Mao's Triple Axel are almost always mentally noted with an * even if the Technical Panel calls it clean. Suffice to say, Midori's one Triple Axel is more impressive than the totality of all the Triple Axels that Mao has ever done. Quality, not the quantity is the question. Unfortunately, many people, myself included, have this mental image of how Midori does a Triple Axel printed in our heads and when seeing Mao doing it, there is just no comparison, not even close. Even 20 years from now, people will still talk about how great Midori was and how no woman has come close to match her jumping ability and joy for skating. Mao will probably not have the same honor. Mao really doesn't help her own cause with numerous UR and downgrades that she has received on that jump. Like it or not, she has already has a reputation of cheating on that jump so it will take quite a bit of convincing to make the judges believe she has really conquered that jump.
That said, you'll note that I agree with her strategy last year and unlike most people, I don't see her results last year as a disappointment. I think it was courageous on her part to really listen to the criticisms and tackled her problems, even though there were some obvious short term pain. I think she is on the right track and wish her the best of success this year.
Which is quite possible, Akiko really impresses this year. In any event, those numbers were given as an example to illustrate a point, not to be taken literally.
All the better because that is Midori's unique legacy. Aside from the 3A, Mao is a very different kind of skater. Her strengths lie in her elegance and lightness and I'd prefer if she is remembered for those qualities.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
Jack Gallagher's articles are not exactly what I call insightful.This story is nonsense. What he called "sight uptick" was a huge triumph for Mao who courageously tackled the difficult work of correcting her jump skills despite of the fact that she was already the two time world champion. Her goal is long term, Sochi in other words, and I am so sure that she will not be discouraged even if she does not win this NHK cup.
I really do not understand that why so many people dismissed her last season. She is the woman who is capable of landing 3A not once, not twice but three times in one comp and as all of you know, it is much more difficult than a man landing 3 quads.
Mao is not just a jumper either. She is artistic and her skating are so smooth and beautiful. She is capable to skate such a beautiful program as " Jupiter."
I sometimes sigh, wondering why Mao does not deserve more respect as one of the greatest skaters ever lived on this planet.:
Your impression of people dismissing Mao last season...is something I would hesitate to call a dismissal. I think it is an acknowledgment of the difficult task Mao has set out for herself. Most fans agreed it would be unrealistic to expect Mao to have perfected her technique in just one season, and most of us believed her commitment to the task.
This was discussed on another forum I frequent a couple months ago...none of us want the "old Mao" back. Not because the old Mao wasn't amazing, but she has clearly made great progress since her days as a 13-year-old. Her discipline, determination, and temperament are well-suited to long-term improvement, so along with improved technical aspects, we are hoping for deeper programs with greater emotional range...something we saw a glimpse of with Mao's Jupiter Ex. As impressive as Mao has already been, I don't think she has peaked at all. She has certainly brought unique and lovely performances, but she just needs to put it all together to be considered one of the greatest skaters ever. I don't think she's far from it at all. I am just waiting.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
Now, let's be fair here. Midori's triple axel is superior to not only Mao's triple axels, but also the triple axels of most men (including arguably both our reigning men's Olympic and world champions). It's a near-impossible standard for most skaters to live up to.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
I'm sorry to say this about Jack Gallagher, but he's not very bright. Didn't he wrote some silly article about how "noble" France was to offer a world championship holding to Japan, not realizing it was an attempt at political machination? Every article he writes is a naive and shallow analysis of the Japanese skaters. Even Phil Hersch is better than this guy.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
Yeah I don't agree with Jack. The NHK is not going to be a decisive competition for Mao's career. I am very interested to see how her jumps look, because that will be more telling than the result. She's going to need more than a solid flip and loop jump to remain competitive; hopefully she has made some progress on the lutz and salchow.
Who says it's going to be fair? It isn't. That's just the reality. There has only been one woman who ever had a real Triple Axel, everyone else is just 3A-, including Tonya Harding. Mao's 3A needs considerable more height even if she can't match that of Midori's. It would at least make people stop doubting the fullness of the rotations she achieves even if it won't get +2 or +3 across the board. The 3A has never been a very good jump for Mao, not only her success rate is not high but the quality has always been questioned. It's almost underwhelming to see her attempt that jump and often, makes mistakes on it. I rather prefer that ladies don't attempt that jump until they can achieve enough height & distance to do it justice and focus on the other 5 kinds of Triples instead. As for Triple Axels in men, Patrick Chan does have a very good Triple Axel when he lands it. I don't know if it is as good as Midori's, hard to compare but on its own, it's a beautiful jump except he sometimes struggles with it.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
You may be underwhelmed by her 3A attempts, but that jump is the sole reason she has had as much success as she has. With no lutz, no salchow, and no 3-3, that jump allowed her to win an Olympic silver medal and the 2010 WC. If she has the other jumps she could get away with no 3A. It is probably her 3rd most consistent triple and, despite the fact it isn't a consistent jump for her, she has to go for it.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
No, I don't necessarily disagree with you but I'm just wondering why Mao must live up to the very, very high standards of Midori Ito's triple axel when there are a good many others who do the triple axel but fail to meet the criteria of Midori's (and yet they get some nice positive GOE nonetheless). So, when someone like, say, Evan Lysacek or Jeffrey Buttle lands a triple axel, do the judges always look askance at it because it does not stack up to Midori's, Viktor Petrenko's or Ilia Kulik's triple axels in quality?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
lol...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JM5Ed3ardM That's pretty awesome for "just a 3A".
Apparently it's "hard to compare" Midori's 3A to Patrick's, but it's somehow easy to do when it's Mao's or Tonya's...
All of them have landed wonderful 3A's. I have seen a couple from Mao that were undoubtedly rotated and had excellent height. The only thing I do wish she got more of is speed going into it/distance, but it's not a real complaint given how rare ladies' 3A's are to begin with.
So how many woman were there who landed what you call " fake 3a" there times at one comp except Mao? It may not be as good as Midori's of course. but Mao's 3A was beautiful as it shows down below.
http://youtu.be/jrEZgoPpCAI
You call it fake, but it is a fact that other woman can not even eek out " fake 3A". This is exactly the reason why that I feel the Mao does not get the respect that she deserves. Currently, she is the only woman who can do 3a in this world. That's that.
I am sorry, where did you see me use the term "fake 3A"?
Since I clearly didn't use such term, please don't attribute it to me. I realize English is clearly not your first language so please be careful with what you write because it can lead to misunderstanding and come across as impolite.- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
Wallylutz, when you categorically state that Midori Ito is the only woman who has ever had a "real" 3A (post #13), it is not unreasonable that some may interpret your statements as implying that all other women's 3As are not real, i.e. fake. Though, given the context of this discussion, I assume what you meant is that other women's 3As are simply 3A< or 3A<<.
First of all, I am not to one who start to compare her to men, someone else did but not me. I think it's mistake to even begin compare Midori's jump to men's to begin with because this sport is delineated by gender and you wouldn't benchmark the flexibility of a guy in a Bielmann or spiral position based on that of ladies would do, so why would or should you on jumps? Secondly, it's also hard to compare Men's jumps to Women's. For one thing, the men you mentioned are quite a bit taller than Midori, especially Lysacek. Women's body is also different to that of men, with more curvature and their legs are generally exposed while the men aren't, creating a different visual effect when they are in the air. In any event, Mao's 3A is often UR as evidenced by the numerous calls she received vs any other elite men. Men may fall on a 3A but an elite male skater rarely gets a 3A< call. That alone is a strong evidence that her height is insufficient to execute that jump without the need to compare to anyone.
Last edited:
