Pairs LP | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Pairs LP

arinessa

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
I disagree with you. The so-called Russian technique is ugly. I hate to see the man stay there motionless. I love the flow with male partner moving towards the female after throwing her out. The Russian technique only applies to small girls. The height and distance are not that great either.

'I love the flow with male partner moving towards the female after throwing her out.' - that IS the Russian technique
 

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Congratulations to K/S!! Definitely an off night for Aliona and Robin.
Silver medal for T/T they must be thrilled.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
T/T's PCS are increasing event by event. By the end of the season, theirs should clear the 60 mark. The judges love this pair, mistakes and all.
Girl T needs to learn how to land her jumps. I said last season, and I'm saying it again. We need to get Mervin Tran back to North America and represent either Canada or the US. We have a nice girl who can land her jump and look elegant, too. Her name is Caitlin. I don't see them going anywhere if girl T continue to make mistake in almost every SBS jump.
 

jChamp

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Delilah should fix the positions on that ending lift of Denney/Coughlin's ASAP, because ending the program with such an eyesore can only leave a bad impression on the judges.

Maybe not...one judge gave them a +3 for that element?????
 

skateflower

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
T/T's PCS are increasing event by event. By the end of the season, theirs should clear the 60 mark. The judges love this pair, mistakes and all.
Girl T needs to learn how to land her jumps. I said last season, and I'm saying it again. We need to get Mervin Tran back to North America and represent either Canada or the US. We have a nice girl who can land her jump and look elegant, too. Her name is Caitlin. I don't see them going anywhere if girl T continue to make mistake in almost every SBS jump.

Are you sure he will be able to lift Caitlin? I really dislike Girl T. Her jump/throw ability is awful.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Are you sure he will be able to lift Caitlin? I really dislike Girl T. Her jump/throw ability is awful.
I thought Caitlin is tiny. 5ft tiny.
Girl T and Boy T look great together. Their lifts, their transitions, their twist, and every hand movements are amazing. But she just can't land her jumps consistently enough. What's her success rate in landing the 3S and 3T? like 1 in 4?
 

skateflower

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Despite the mistakes, S&S produced their best program in my opinion. Unfortunately, I'm afraid V/T will likely beat them at worlds with those empty programs.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
S/S were gifted in the PCS big time. They robbed Z/Z in 2008, robbed K/S in 2011.
How on earth were they able to score higher than K/S here in Performance/Execution, Choreography, and Interpretation?
S/S are often overrated and overmarked.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Oh boy, S/S were off from the start. They really seemed tired and out of sync with each other in the fp. I think the judges were kind of generous to them in the sp. S/S failed to seal the deal in the fp -- too bad. I still love them and their fp this year. I like their sp too, and hope they get the kinks out. If they are not at a high percentage with landing the throw 3-axel in practice, then they might want to rethink trying it. I hope their conditioning is not off, or something else nagging. Robin has seemed to have problems with doubling triples so far this season. Hope this is just early season working things out. Was it jet lag? Go back home S/S and get in condition and get those programs working more smoothly you quys!

To the questioner re Aliona's hair: I think she has soft, flyaway hair that she has a hard time keeping under control, just my speculation.

To those who were dissing S/S as a pair (in the sp thread), yes they are a true pair, edgy and different, but they complement each other beautifully. They are not your average pairs team.

ETA: Give it a break Flattfan. S/S were fairly judged in that they were taken down for making mistakes. Yes, you betcha that S/S have overall better choreo, presentation and execution skills than K/S, even with mistakes. K/S have a better fp than sp this year, but they did not skate cleanly here either -- K/S botched their jump landings and they were skating soooo slooooow. I feel for K/S, but truthfully if S/S skate to their ability and K/S skate to theirs, S/S are in an entirely different league. Its just that you have to put your programs out there when it counts. This is early season GPF, and let's see how things shake-out come Worlds. If you don't like S/S, to each their own favorites, but how can you argue their flat out talent?
 
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FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
To those who were dissing S/S as a pair (in the sp thread), yes they are a true pair, edgy and different, but they complement each other beautifully. They are not your average pairs team.

Nobody's ever said they're average. They are one of the top 3-4 team in the world. My problem with them is they always get huge PCS even with glaring mistakes. It's like the mistakes do not exist.
Same with V/T. Their choreography should be in the 6s, not 8s.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Nobody's ever said they're average. They are one of the top 3-4 team in the world. My problem with them is they always get huge PCS even with glaring mistakes. It's like the mistakes do not exist.

As we've been told again and again, PCS (except perhaps PE) aren't supposed to be affected by errors in the elements. Savchenko and Szolkowy are hardly the only skaters who benefit from this particular quirk in the structure of CoP scoring.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
ETA: Give it a break Flattfan. S/S were fairly judged in that they were taken down for making mistakes. Yes, you betcha that S/S have overall better choreo, presentation and execution skills than K/S, even with mistakes. K/S have a better fp than sp this year, but they did not skate cleanly here either -- K/S botched their jump landings and they were skating soooo slooooow. I feel for K/S, but truthfully if S/S skate to their ability and K/S skate to theirs, S/S are in an entirely different league. Its just that you have to put your programs out there when it counts. This is early season GPF, and let's see how things shake-out come Worlds. If you don't like S/S, to each their own favorites, but how can you argue their flat out talent?

How is it fair when their PE was higher than K/S?
A lot of people thought K/S have the best LP. How is their choreography so much lower?
Same with interpretation.
 

skateflower

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
T&T got all level 4 except the twist. This is one reason they could get away with glaring mistakes in jumps and throws. S&S got lots of low levels. On the positive side, they have lots of room to improve the total score by just tweaking the elements.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Quite right evangeline, even though I'm no fan of IJS.

Flattfan, S/S programs for starters are more challenging and difficult than anything any of the other skaters in this competition are doing. If you don't agree, then truly you need to view a little more closely and look at all the subtle details. S/S can do all the stuff the other pairs are doing and then some, but they don't sit back and do same old, same old. They are always looking to do something new and different and in the process with their coach, they have pushed the discipline forward. Anyone in the sport could tell you that. Even if they don't say it publicly, everyone knows that S/S are the team to watch and to be inspired by.

ETA: Flattfan, K/S have a nice program for them, especially coming back from their disastrous showing at Worlds earlier this year. Be happy for them. Please stop trying to compare them with S/S. There is no comparison. To be perfectly honest, S/S fp transcends the pairs discipline b/c they are constantly pushing forward for unique ways to express themselves on ice. Their fp further tweaked and trained and with their timing just right could be a masterpiece. Even with their mistakes here, it is a masterpiece in the making. Widen your vision.
 
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FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
As we've been told again and again, PCS (except perhaps PE) aren't supposed to be affected by errors in the elements. Savchenko and Szolkowy are hardly the only skaters who benefit from this particular quirk in the structure of CoP scoring.

So the two abominations V/T put out are about 1-2 points higher than K/S in choreography and interpretation. I need to be told again and again what the hell is PCS? Shouldn't PCS reflect the program components of the performance you just saw instead of what you know they can do? You take any explanation they throw at you and accept it?
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Flattfan, S/S programs for starters are more challenging and difficult than anything any of the other skaters in this competition are doing. If you don't agree, then truly you need to view a little more closely and look at all the subtle details. S/S can do all the stuff the other pairs are doing and then some, but they don't sit back and do same old, same old. They are always looking to do something new and different and in the process with their coach, they have pushed the discipline forward. Anyone in the sport could tell you that. Even if they don't say it publicly, everyone knows that S/S are the team to watch and to be inspired by.

I think I have said in the past that I really appreciate S/S for challenging themselves and come up with new ideas (sometime tacky, sometime good). But do they deserve their PCS when they put out that kind of performance? Sound like you're for reputation judging. Kinda like an ice skating Stockholm syndrome. After years of corrupted judging, a few more corrupted judgings don't seem to be out of the norm anymore and fans defend it tooth and nail. :laugh:
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I believe this is enough for T/T to earn a GPF spot. Silver + fourth > two bronzes, so that puts them ahead of the Canadian teams. Very interesting.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Flattfan: Even with the mistakes and their timing off, if you look at the details and subtleties in S/S whole program, how can you deny their above average presentation? If you don't like their take on modern dance or don't understand what they have tried to do with this program, fine. Root for your favorites and stop trying to fathom the judges and CoP -- its a no-win enterprise.

ETA: I don't defend judges, but I do have eyes, heart, mind and soul -- and I can see and feel, and maintain an open mind when superb athletes try to push themselves past their comfort zone and bring something new and different to the ice. OTOH, K/S are just trying to survive out there.
 
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evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I'm not exactly fond of the current structure of PCS scoring either, but, hey--rules are rules, whether spoken (e.g. the divorce of PCS from element errors) or unspoken (e.g. the reality of skating in the not-final group). K/S's current position as the #2 Russian team sure doesn't help either.

Shouldn't PCS reflect the program components of the performance you just saw instead of what you know they can do?

Toto, I've a feeling we're not in 6.0 any more.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Flattfan: Even with the mistakes and their timing off, if you look at the details and subtleties in S/S whole program, how can you deny their above average presentation? If you don't like their take on modern dance or don't understand what they have tried to do with this program, fine. Root for your favorites and stop trying to fathom the judges and CoP -- its a no-win enterprise.
careful choice of words there. Did I deny their above average presentation?
so if someone doesn't like a program, someone must not understand modern dance? OK. You need to be studied for SS syndrome.
 
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