Question about age and SR GP
- Thread starter skateluvr
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For all international events (but not ISU championships) — the age requirement is 14 by July 1.
But for ISU Championships — 4CC, Europeans and Worlds — the age requirement is 15 by July 1.
These rules were implemented for the 1996-1997 season as a way to prevent forcing young skaters to do too much too soon. Tara Lipinski, who was 13 that year, was grandfathered and able to compete after the rule change because she competed in the 1996 Worlds.
I'm not sure whether the age limit actually did what it intended.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Didn't they change the rules somewhere around 2005 to allow 14-year-olds to do the senior grand prix? (Just in time for Mao Asada to win the 2005 grand prix final, having beating the entire Olympic podium, Arakawa, Cohen, and Slutskaya, along the way.)
As far as i know, the ISU never gave any explanation or rationale for having different age requirements for the grand prix and for worlds. I assume it is something like, let's let the little tykes dip their toe in the big girl pond a year early so they will be ready to dive in the next year.
As far as i know, the ISU never gave any explanation or rationale for having different age requirements for the grand prix and for worlds. I assume it is something like, let's let the little tykes dip their toe in the big girl pond a year early so they will be ready to dive in the next year.
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2011
sounds right to me, ISU thinking. I think there should be one age for all ISU events.
I don't think that was a change -- the age limit for non-championship events, including the Grand Prix, was a year younger than for championships all along. That rule just got attention that year because someone who wasn't old enough for the championships happened to win the GPF.
Yeah, I figure the reasoning is something like that.
Applies to boys too, but it's not as relevant in their case because they're usually happy to stay junior at 14-15, if they're even ready for that. Plushenko is the most prominent case I can think of and he was also grandfathered, from having competed in senior B events at 13 (as well as the junior world medal loophole, which was closed after 1999-2000 season).
Yes, I agree there should be one age for all ISU senior events. And that age should be 16 years or even a bit more, in my opinion. And after that certain age the skaters should not be able to compete in Junior competitions any more.
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I agree that the different ages for ISU senior championships vs. other senior internationals is confusing and probably not necessary.
But I'm not sure about a strict division between junior and senior age, since different skaters develop at different rates.
It would tough to say everyone under 16 must compete in juniors even if they've already medaled at or won Junior Worlds several times (most likely for ladies and female pair skaters) and everyone over 16 must compete in seniors even if they're just starting to get comfortable with triple jumps and/or are still far from full-grown and don't have the power to keep up with the adults (more likely for boys). Male pair skaters would be at an especial disadvantage if forced to skate senior at 16.
At the very least, if there's going to be a firm cutoff, the specific cutoff should probably be different for different sexes and different disciplines.
But I still think it could be a problem in that some 16-year-olds of both sexes are full grown physically and/or have been skating for more than 10 years and have all the skills they need for seniors, and others are still small and/or comparatively new to the sport and still working on skill development.
Once you get to pairs and dance, firm cutoffs without overlap limit the possibilities for partnerships, because there might be two otherwise compatible skaters from the same country who would not be able to compete internationally because one is too old for juniors and the other too young for seniors. Already with the existing limits sometimes the man too old for juniors the girl is too young for juniors, but that's comparatively rare, with a particularly large age gap. If there's no overlap, and if the cutoffs for boys and girls are the same, then every team in which the partners weren't born during the same year (July to July) would have at least one season they wouldn't be able to compete at all.
So I would say keep the overlaps and wider age ranges for pairs and dance.
For singles, maybe the senior minimum should be 14 for girls or 16 for boys instead of 15 for both. But still keep the upper limit on juniors higher than the lower limit on seniors. That would mean that skaters will have a few years during which they're age eligible for both levels. If it seems that going back and forth is really a problem, then make a rule that any skater whose age falls into the overlap range and who has already done something at the senior level (competed internationally at all? medaled at any senior international? competed or medaled on the Grand Prix? competed or medaled at an ISU senior championship?) would no longer be allowed to compete in junior events.
But I'm not sure about a strict division between junior and senior age, since different skaters develop at different rates.
It would tough to say everyone under 16 must compete in juniors even if they've already medaled at or won Junior Worlds several times (most likely for ladies and female pair skaters) and everyone over 16 must compete in seniors even if they're just starting to get comfortable with triple jumps and/or are still far from full-grown and don't have the power to keep up with the adults (more likely for boys). Male pair skaters would be at an especial disadvantage if forced to skate senior at 16.
At the very least, if there's going to be a firm cutoff, the specific cutoff should probably be different for different sexes and different disciplines.
But I still think it could be a problem in that some 16-year-olds of both sexes are full grown physically and/or have been skating for more than 10 years and have all the skills they need for seniors, and others are still small and/or comparatively new to the sport and still working on skill development.
Once you get to pairs and dance, firm cutoffs without overlap limit the possibilities for partnerships, because there might be two otherwise compatible skaters from the same country who would not be able to compete internationally because one is too old for juniors and the other too young for seniors. Already with the existing limits sometimes the man too old for juniors the girl is too young for juniors, but that's comparatively rare, with a particularly large age gap. If there's no overlap, and if the cutoffs for boys and girls are the same, then every team in which the partners weren't born during the same year (July to July) would have at least one season they wouldn't be able to compete at all.
So I would say keep the overlaps and wider age ranges for pairs and dance.
For singles, maybe the senior minimum should be 14 for girls or 16 for boys instead of 15 for both. But still keep the upper limit on juniors higher than the lower limit on seniors. That would mean that skaters will have a few years during which they're age eligible for both levels. If it seems that going back and forth is really a problem, then make a rule that any skater whose age falls into the overlap range and who has already done something at the senior level (competed internationally at all? medaled at any senior international? competed or medaled on the Grand Prix? competed or medaled at an ISU senior championship?) would no longer be allowed to compete in junior events.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I have mixed feelings about the whole age restriction thing from the get-go. The purpose of having a world championship competition is to see who is the best. The best skater is the skater who skates best, be she ten years old or sixty.
One rationale for age restrictions is that we don't want young children crippling themselves for life by doing too many repitions of their triple loop. But they will do this anyway, whether they compete at the junior level or senior.
Another reason is that we don't want a lot of teeny-bopper jumping beans who do not skate with artistic maturity to run away with all the prizes. The remedy for that, though, is not to keep people out pre-emptively but to adjust the scoring system to place greater value on artistic msaturity, if that is what is desired.
The third reason is that we don't want children thrown willi-nilli into adult settings. Precautions are necessary, like the assignment of dedicated chaperones. But, for instance, I do not think that Nathan Chen is being emotionally abused and scarred by performing in shows alongside adult stars.
One rationale for age restrictions is that we don't want young children crippling themselves for life by doing too many repitions of their triple loop. But they will do this anyway, whether they compete at the junior level or senior.
Another reason is that we don't want a lot of teeny-bopper jumping beans who do not skate with artistic maturity to run away with all the prizes. The remedy for that, though, is not to keep people out pre-emptively but to adjust the scoring system to place greater value on artistic msaturity, if that is what is desired.
The third reason is that we don't want children thrown willi-nilli into adult settings. Precautions are necessary, like the assignment of dedicated chaperones. But, for instance, I do not think that Nathan Chen is being emotionally abused and scarred by performing in shows alongside adult stars.
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- Jun 18, 2011
We have the Junior World Championships to showcase skaters who are too young to qualify for the senior Worlds; however, I believe sometimes skaters who are age-qualfied to compete at senior Worlds opt to compete at the Junior Worlds - correct?
I like to see skaters with maturely developed techical and artistic skills compete at the senior level. Sometimes a young skater such as Oksana Baiul emerges with astonshing skills, and in her case she wins the title in her first attempt. Age in itself, however, does not guarantee "maturely developed technical and artistic skills". I tend to agree that the World championships should result in the title being awarded to the best singles, pairs, and dance teams, regardless of age. I cannot imagine a ten-year-old winning, nor can I envision a fifty-year-old winning, can you?
In years past, the compulsory school figures, which took years to master, prevented the really young skaters from competing at the senior level. There are always exceptions, of course, such as Peggy Fleming, who won the 1964 US title at the age of 15. She competed in the aftermath of the plane crash that took the lives of the 1961 US World team - those who naturally would have been on the scene in 1964.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2011
Question
I'm pretty new to figure skating, so could someone just explain how someone could compete on both the senior and junior circuit? How do they decide what level to compete at and when?
I'm pretty new to figure skating, so could someone just explain how someone could compete on both the senior and junior circuit? How do they decide what level to compete at and when?
junior = Junior Grand Prix series in the late summer/early fall, Junior Worlds (and also some less prominent internationals, mostly in Europe, that offer events at more than one level)
senior = senior Grand Prix, senior ISU championships (Worlds, Europeans, Four Continents), less prominent internationals often referred as "senior B" events
The age limits overlap, so skaters who were 15-18 as of July 1 are age eligible for both senior and junior events.
Skaters who were 14 as of July 1 are eligible for senior competitions in the fall but not for Worlds and Euros/4Cs.
Singles skaters and ice dancers are not allowed to compete in both the junior grand prix and senior grand prix in the same season. Pair skaters are, because there are relatively few pairs in the world.
Otherwise, it's possible for a skater who competes on the JGP to also enter one or two of the senior B events to get senior experience as well.
Some skaters do JGP in the fall and then do well enough at their own Nationals to qualify for Worlds and/or Euros/4Cs that same season. (Case in point, Richard Dornbush last season)
Some skaters do senior internationals in the fall, don't qualify for their country's World or continental championship team, but are young enough to be sent to Junior Worlds instead
Some skaters in that overlap age group are the only international-level skaters in their country and can get sent to both Junior Worlds and the senior championships in the same season
As long as they meet the age requirements for both senior and junior, they're allowed to compete at both senior and junior events. The only exception is that they can't do both grand prix series in the same year except in the pairs discipline.
senior = senior Grand Prix, senior ISU championships (Worlds, Europeans, Four Continents), less prominent internationals often referred as "senior B" events
The age limits overlap, so skaters who were 15-18 as of July 1 are age eligible for both senior and junior events.
Skaters who were 14 as of July 1 are eligible for senior competitions in the fall but not for Worlds and Euros/4Cs.
Singles skaters and ice dancers are not allowed to compete in both the junior grand prix and senior grand prix in the same season. Pair skaters are, because there are relatively few pairs in the world.
Otherwise, it's possible for a skater who competes on the JGP to also enter one or two of the senior B events to get senior experience as well.
Some skaters do JGP in the fall and then do well enough at their own Nationals to qualify for Worlds and/or Euros/4Cs that same season. (Case in point, Richard Dornbush last season)
Some skaters do senior internationals in the fall, don't qualify for their country's World or continental championship team, but are young enough to be sent to Junior Worlds instead
Some skaters in that overlap age group are the only international-level skaters in their country and can get sent to both Junior Worlds and the senior championships in the same season
As long as they meet the age requirements for both senior and junior, they're allowed to compete at both senior and junior events. The only exception is that they can't do both grand prix series in the same year except in the pairs discipline.
I agree. Well said. At the rate things are going we'll have "senior" competitions that consist of a bunch of babies. It would be like going to a pee-wee baseball game. PLEEEASE, let's have adult competitions for adults - that means 18 years old and older. So what if the "baby" skaters are darling little jumping beans, that doesn't make them anything other than "cute" to watch. You need adults, men and women, to be the face of your sport not babies.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I wouldn't say "at the rate we're going," as if the skaters are getting younger and younger. The opposite is true. Oksana Baiul won the Olympics at 16, Tara Lipinski at 15, and Sarah Hughes at 16.
I confess to having misgivings about the argument, "we would rather see more mature performances." I don't think the world and Olympic championships are about "what we would like to see." I think they are about who is the best skater.
If Tara and Sonia Henie were the best in the world at fourteen, it is what it is, whether I like cute jumping beans or not.
Remember the "womens" Chinese gold medal winning gymnastics team at the 2008 Olympics? Those gymnasts didn't even have breasts yet! Their "birth certificates" were contested but survived the Chinese "investigation". PLEEASE! This sort of problem should not even arise.
I can appreciate the argument that the "best" skater should win. But if that is the goal, then why have any age limits at all. What if an 11 year old girl can skate a program with 10 triples and 2 quads!!! Why couldn't she win? There has to be some age cutoff or none.
If the best female ice skaters in the world are kids (which generally they are NOT), then the female ice-skating competition should be taken out of the "Senior" Olympics. There is now a Junior Olympics, after all, for the under 16 set. I just think the Senior designation should mean something (I think only competitors 18 or older should be eligible). Don't let the kids compete against the adults, it is as simple as that. If the history books want to declare that the female Junior Olympic ice-skating champions are better skaters than the Senior Olympic ice-skating champions, so be it.
If Sonia, Tara, and Sarah couldn't win the Olympics when they reached 18 to bad. Let them have Junior OGMs.
I can appreciate the argument that the "best" skater should win. But if that is the goal, then why have any age limits at all. What if an 11 year old girl can skate a program with 10 triples and 2 quads!!! Why couldn't she win? There has to be some age cutoff or none.
If the best female ice skaters in the world are kids (which generally they are NOT), then the female ice-skating competition should be taken out of the "Senior" Olympics. There is now a Junior Olympics, after all, for the under 16 set. I just think the Senior designation should mean something (I think only competitors 18 or older should be eligible). Don't let the kids compete against the adults, it is as simple as that. If the history books want to declare that the female Junior Olympic ice-skating champions are better skaters than the Senior Olympic ice-skating champions, so be it.
If Sonia, Tara, and Sarah couldn't win the Olympics when they reached 18 to bad. Let them have Junior OGMs.
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