- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
Because those places suck and are miserable hell holes?
Only destitute, poor parents send their kids there.
I'm pretty sure posh boarding schools are nothing like the training prisons in China.
Patrick Chan feeling unappreciated in Canada
- Thread starter Antilles
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Because those places suck and are miserable hell holes?
Only destitute, poor parents send their kids there.
I'm pretty sure posh boarding schools are nothing like the training prisons in China.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
Would Chan have received more recognition and endorsement in Canada if he were "white"? My guess is "probably not". I would not go so far as to claim that race does not play a role in Canada, but there are factors more important than that, for instance, public image, record of achievement, timing (if he had won the Olympic when Canadian attention was on him).
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
I went to a "normal" boarding school, and I can say from experience that it is difficult for many kids - and my school was not nearly as demanding an environment as a Chinese training center. Chan, OTOH, was able to train near home and get excellent coaching as well as the support of his parents and the ability to attend a regular school. He enjoyed the best of both worlds without having to choose; young Chinese athletes don't often get such an opportunity.
The comments on the G&M article are overwhelmingly negative. Some of them are just stupid and ignorant, but not all of them, and it's clear that Patrick has not done himself any good with this interview.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2003
All I can say is these comments from Chan have doubtless done nothing to increase Canadian support for figure skaters!!
I realize Chan is young and entitled to make some mistakes, but these comments are just so immature and ill-considered. If he thinks it's so great to live under a Communist regime in a country still lacking many freedoms and opportunities for its citizens, let him move there and experience it for himself. I think he'd be in for a culture shock.
I fully support being in touch with your ethnic heritage, but to say he wishes he could compete for China is taking it a step too far. I'm sure the Canadian federation, which has supported him throughout his career, is less than thrilled with these comments. If he really does feel this way, at least have the grace to keep it to himself rather than showing such ingratitude to the Canadian federation and fans.
It reminds me of Johnny Weir's wearing a CCCP jacket at the Turin Olympics. Another juvenile and ultimately ill-considered move. Chan does indeed have a serious case of "foot-in-mouth" disease. I find myself wincing after nearly every interview.
I realize Chan is young and entitled to make some mistakes, but these comments are just so immature and ill-considered. If he thinks it's so great to live under a Communist regime in a country still lacking many freedoms and opportunities for its citizens, let him move there and experience it for himself. I think he'd be in for a culture shock.
I fully support being in touch with your ethnic heritage, but to say he wishes he could compete for China is taking it a step too far. I'm sure the Canadian federation, which has supported him throughout his career, is less than thrilled with these comments. If he really does feel this way, at least have the grace to keep it to himself rather than showing such ingratitude to the Canadian federation and fans.
It reminds me of Johnny Weir's wearing a CCCP jacket at the Turin Olympics. Another juvenile and ultimately ill-considered move. Chan does indeed have a serious case of "foot-in-mouth" disease. I find myself wincing after nearly every interview.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
You're right about that. Joannie has fans too, but I've never seen ubers of hers. Probably because there are a lot of other white skaters to love.
I would argue the attention lavished upon Chan ultimately stems not from his skating, but as his status of "the only one of us who has been winning medals and events, except for pairs, but no one pays attention to pairs so it doesn't really count." I would say the same for Yuna too; she has the number of fans she does not because of her skating, but because of her ethnicity and status as "only person from Korea who has been doing anything of worth in figure skating."
Of course all of them, Patrick, Joannie, Yuna, would have fans, but just not the same degree or magnitude.
I would argue the attention lavished upon Chan ultimately stems not from his skating, but as his status of "the only one of us who has been winning medals and events, except for pairs, but no one pays attention to pairs so it doesn't really count." I would say the same for Yuna too; she has the number of fans she does not because of her skating, but because of her ethnicity and status as "only person from Korea who has been doing anything of worth in figure skating."
Of course all of them, Patrick, Joannie, Yuna, would have fans, but just not the same degree or magnitude.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
Some people use every possible opportunity to express their opinions based on their own political agendas and their ever lasting hatred towards China, though I do not mean you when I say this because I don't know you.
I hope you give us hard facts when you pronounce such decisive remarks. Things happened 20, 30, or 50 years ago in China doesn't represent current China.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
I'm glad you're hedging your bet on my hatred of China. Although I'm amused by your conclusion that hatred of China = disapproval of the federation's training methods.
I'm calling a spade a spade in that instance.
I'm calling a spade a spade in that instance.
I just registered GS to tell you, more than half of Chinese skaters come from quite wealthy family.
Especially Zijun Li, her parents may be richer than a lot of other skaters' in the world.
It's nothing about their family background. They entered this sport for their own interest.
If you want to make this kind of comment, please at least do some research.
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- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
I see. I'm glad you know at least half of figure skating families in China are rich. How do you know their annual incomes; do you work in payroll?
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
From the GP Final thread where the article was initially linked to.
To be honest, most of these things don't bother me (the excessive self regard is more a goal/hope, as opposed to a belief in what he has done, the wanting more recognition in his own country is fairly normal, imo; and putting down other skaters - please, everyone I've read has said the same thing about COP). What bothers me is what we see in comment on in KKonas' and Buttercup's post - that he doesn't seem to understand what his parents were leaving and what his life would actually be like if he had stayed.
sky_fly20, the chances of him competing for China are slim to the power of none.
To be honest, most of these things don't bother me (the excessive self regard is more a goal/hope, as opposed to a belief in what he has done, the wanting more recognition in his own country is fairly normal, imo; and putting down other skaters - please, everyone I've read has said the same thing about COP). What bothers me is what we see in comment on in KKonas' and Buttercup's post - that he doesn't seem to understand what his parents were leaving and what his life would actually be like if he had stayed.
sky_fly20, the chances of him competing for China are slim to the power of none.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
Hi Spun,
what Patrick said is true.Again, he was complaining about CoP and it was no difference from the way Sonia Bianchetti, Stephane Lambiel, Sasha Cohen, Johnny Weir, Dick Button, Sandra Bezic... and many other famous people in the field complaining about it. And what he said is true.
He wanted to be memorized and set up his goals. What was wrong?Thank you, iceflame! Welcome to GS!
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- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Patrick was in China getting attention and interviewed a number of times, with focus on his Chinese origin. Both the interviewers and himself sought connection with the Chinese audience and what I've read and watched show him in a very good light, sincerely expressing his identification with his race and his parents' motherland and culture. He has never said anything against Canada or his non Chinese fans. He expressed a lot of gratitude for his supporters and fundraisers without any emphasis that they were mainly Chinese Canadians. His TV interview, done in English, was linked here but was geoblocked when I checked last night. I can see how the section comparing the financial situations of Canadian and Chinese athletes, not just skaters, could be twisted to suit a different agenda. Yet no viewers of that interview got any sense of him "whining" and complaining about Canada. We can all believe if he gave any such impression there would have been condemnation outbreak right then, not now.
Why is this interview published now for Western audience, out of time and place and purposely misleading with implication it was conducted last week and it was Chan's predominant thought currently? Like other Reuter writings during the Olympics, I strongly sense scandal manufacturing and an agenda to generate controversy. Barring the airing of original interview, I'll wait for Patrick himself to clear the air.
Why is this interview published now for Western audience, out of time and place and purposely misleading with implication it was conducted last week and it was Chan's predominant thought currently? Like other Reuter writings during the Olympics, I strongly sense scandal manufacturing and an agenda to generate controversy. Barring the airing of original interview, I'll wait for Patrick himself to clear the air.
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If you knew "Only destitute, poor parents send their kids there", why can not I know they come from quite wealthy family?
At least I follow these kids in Chinese Twitter (weibo), knowing some of them in person.
I am just an unknown ID, so believe it or not, it's your choice.
If you don't want to believe, nothing could convince you.
Thank you! Actually I have been reading GS for more than 2 years.
But English is not my native language, it's hard to find the actual word I want to express.
BTW, iceflame is the name of a fan club of Han Yan. I just "steal" it
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- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
If you have supposed insider knowledge and think China's training places are utopias, go ahead. I won't stop you.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
Thank you! Actually I have been reading GS for more than 2 years.
But English is not my native language, it's hard to find the actual word I want to express.
BTW, iceflame is the name of a fan club of Han Yan. I just "steal" it
Your English is great! It's ok. There are a lot of posters, more than you could imagine, whose native languages are not English. It's not my native language either. But we learn as we go. Iceflame is a great name!
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- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
Yes, to some extent, but when you are a national hero (as Patrick aspires to be) you're supposed to set an example of sportsmanship:Hi Spun,
...
Again, he was complaining about CoP and it was no difference from the way Sonia Bianchetti, Stephane Lambiel, Sasha Cohen, Johnny Weir, Dick Button, Sandra Bezic... and many other famous people in the field complaining about it. And what he said is true.
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SportsmanshipWikipedia said:
I think Buttercup nailed it with this comment:
Buttercup said:
Patrick seems to wander into this kind of random rudeness by accident, because of his youth. It would make more sense if he were a true "bad boy" of sports with a giant ego and temper, like John MacEnroe, but it's pretty hard to picture Patrick as a bad boy (and I'm not sure skating tolerates such personalities, maybe because of the audience's main gender... see wallylutz's post (#15) in the Practice reports thread). He's a good boy who talks too much. The puzzle is why he hasn't learned to be careful and do the "I just want to go out there and do my best" thing yet.
I never said that China's training places are utopias. They have unfavorite system, that I really hate for long, but never be like your "description".
I just point out some unreal and ridiculous words from your post by my, as you said, "supposed inside" knowledge.
Just keep your own mind, I won't try to convince you either.
BTW,it's a great fun to read what you described about the CHN FS training place
Let's bring the topic back.
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- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
I'm guessing that Reuters has played a little fast and loose with the interview. Definitely taking this with a bit of a grain of salt. At the same time Chan is known for unfortunate "stream of consciousness" and doesn't often realize that what he says, what is actually reported, and how it is perceived may in no way reflect what he meant to say. He's young and naive, and clearly hasn't received much training in media relations. It's a "gotcha" moment, really. He strikes me as a very intelligent young man, but perhaps not always very smart.
At the same time, I can see how his comments might have been intended. If he just returned from Asia, for which there is crazy support for skating at a fan and infrastructure level, and he spent some time in his country of heritage, he might feel a little nostalgic about his experiences there. It's not an uncommon feeling with children of immigrants. It's also human nature to wonder if the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence".
I also think he is absolutely right on that the support for sport, and skating in particular, is ridiculous in Canada. Own the Podium works for the top athletes in the country. It does nothing whatsoever for the skaters developing in the sport. There is no meaningful financial help at the lower ranks. A champion takes many years to develop. They do not suddenly see success overnight. Coaching is expensive. Ice fees are expensive. Costumes and skates are expensive. Traveling to competitions is expensive (why Regina made no sense for Challenge). Competition entry fees are expensive. Quebec seems to do a better job than other places in Canada. Joannie would have benefited somewhat by representing Quebec. The ice costs are less, and if a skater goes to Nationals, their flight and hotel is paid. For Victoria last year, that was a huge benefit for anyone east of Manitoba. Basically, the parents are footing the entire bill, except for maybe a $1,000 here and there if the athlete seems some success. Parents work multiple jobs, do without many things the average citizen takes as normal, don't take vacations, mortgage their houses, load up on debt, etc. just to keep their kids in the sport. Really, the whole family pays a price when 1 member of the household is a competitive skater. I think Virtue/Moir fit into this category. Chan is lucky that he has support from the Canadian Chinese community. So many others cannot say the same thing. If there are boys in the sport, it's more than likely many friends and family will not understand or approve of the "hobby", and certainly not support it. Immigrant communities that I know tend to be very focused on developing their economic position, and spending money like this on sports would be considered a waste. In fact, I see fewer and fewer parents willing to make sacrifices for their kids to skate competitively. The unfortunate result is that we do not always see the best skaters or the best potential skaters stay in the sport. It's either the families that have high incomes or have middle incomes but are willing to make very big sacrifices that stay in the sport. And the ranks are dwindling, especially the higher we look. Just look at the numbers and quality from pre-novice, to novice, to junior and then to senior. For some athletes that run out of family support, I believe Anabelle Langlois spoke about this once, the really dedicated ones quit school and go to work to pay the skating bills. It's a little easier for boys, especially in dance, who can eventually become coaches and earn their own way at a certain point. But doing so may mean sacrificing school, training time, and sometimes both. It's a long way from juvenile to junor or senior. Unless we come to terms with a funding model for developing skaters - a long-term athlete funding plan - this problem is only going to get worse.
So how do we address this situation? I think we have to start by doing a much better job of educating governments, business and the general public of the benefits of elite sports and skating particularly. We need to educate about the sport itself so that people understand the sport of skating and respect it as such. Then we need to market some of our top athletes, for which we really have some wonderful role models. Virtue/Moir and Moore-Towers/Moscovitch are tremendous people, for example. They can do a lot to raise the profile of the sport and attract audience. We need better marketing at a Skate Canada level. We can all see that sponsorship even at the national level is disappearing. This should not be allowed to continue. At the same time, we need to change laws in Canada to make it easier for businesses and individuals to sponsor local athletes involved in competitive sports - similar to donating to registered charities, and giving some kind of tax benefit. Finding more ways for parents to claim expenses would also be good. And in a world where too many kids are obese and inactive, we need to promote the value of competitive sport. Elite athletes become elite citizens who go on to achieve in other areas of their lives - school, career, etc. They tend to be leaders who contribute to their world. And they inspire others to take up the sport, get active, resulting in the same benefits of health and achievement. The monetary benefits of supporting and funding sports will be seen over the entire lifetime of athlete.
I find the whole thing rather amusing, and thank Patrick Chan for providing me some levity early this morning. 
It reminds me of a song I heard from when I was a child back in the 70's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1F5BLLFAeM
"Torn Between Two Lovers" lyrics -
There are times when a woman has to say what's on her mind
Even though she knows how much it's gonna hurt
Before I say another word let me tell you, I love you
Let me hold you close and say these words as gently as I can
There's been another man that I've needed and I've loved
But that doesn't mean I love you less
And he knows he can't possess me and he knows he never will
There's just this empty place inside of me that only he can fill
[Chorus:]
Torn between two lovers, feelin' like a fool
Lovin' both of you is breakin' all the rules
Torn between two lovers, feelin' like a fool
Lovin' you both is breakin' all the rules
You mustn't think you've failed me
Just because there's someone else
You were the first real love I ever had
And all the things I ever said
I swear they still are true
For no one else can have the part of me I gave to you
[Chorus]
I couldn't really blame you if you turned and walked away
But with everything I feel inside, I'm asking you to stay
[Chorus]
Torn between two lovers
[Fade]
Feelin' like a fool
Lovin' both of you is breakin' all the rules
Okay, on a serious note, I was reading the comments from the Globe & Mail article, and this one stood out to me:
Having spoken to a member of his extended family, I believe it's all about finances. His supporters have a number of fund raisers every year to support his training which is very expensive. I don't know exactly what his training costs but it's in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
My sense is that he feels guilty about the financial sacrifices his parents have made for his skating career.
Maybe he is bringing in China because they would have no problem supporting him financially with whatever needs. This would eliminate the financial burden for his parents and supporters and lessen his guilt.
Just my opinion.
It reminds me of a song I heard from when I was a child back in the 70's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1F5BLLFAeM
"Torn Between Two Lovers" lyrics -
There are times when a woman has to say what's on her mind
Even though she knows how much it's gonna hurt
Before I say another word let me tell you, I love you
Let me hold you close and say these words as gently as I can
There's been another man that I've needed and I've loved
But that doesn't mean I love you less
And he knows he can't possess me and he knows he never will
There's just this empty place inside of me that only he can fill
[Chorus:]
Torn between two lovers, feelin' like a fool
Lovin' both of you is breakin' all the rules
Torn between two lovers, feelin' like a fool
Lovin' you both is breakin' all the rules
You mustn't think you've failed me
Just because there's someone else
You were the first real love I ever had
And all the things I ever said
I swear they still are true
For no one else can have the part of me I gave to you
[Chorus]
I couldn't really blame you if you turned and walked away
But with everything I feel inside, I'm asking you to stay
[Chorus]
Torn between two lovers
[Fade]
Feelin' like a fool
Lovin' both of you is breakin' all the rules
Okay, on a serious note, I was reading the comments from the Globe & Mail article, and this one stood out to me:
Having spoken to a member of his extended family, I believe it's all about finances. His supporters have a number of fund raisers every year to support his training which is very expensive. I don't know exactly what his training costs but it's in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
My sense is that he feels guilty about the financial sacrifices his parents have made for his skating career.
Maybe he is bringing in China because they would have no problem supporting him financially with whatever needs. This would eliminate the financial burden for his parents and supporters and lessen his guilt.
Just my opinion.
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