GPF Men FP, Sat. 12/10 at 4:55 pm EST

Bluebonnet · Dec 15, 2011

skatinginbc said:
If it is true that falling properly is one of the first thing an athlete must learn, I would argue that those who fall properly should receive less GOE deduction on the fall than those who fall awkwardly. And I am serious about it.

You are kidding, right?!

jettasian · Dec 15, 2011

stickle said:
I so agree that commentators, especially on tv, should be doing a much better job of educating the viewing audience, especially during the actual skate. They should be pointing out the details that make one skater so much better than the other and what is earning points in the scoring system.

I have noticed in recent years, the commentators (Cdns) seem to have "shut up" when top skaters like V/M or Chan skate. I guess in the past, a lot of viewers hated to be interrupted by the voices while the top skaters were skating. A lot wished PJ Kwong had "shut up" during many skates. That's a shame cause I like commentators to point out the jumps and footworks etc. Basically, there's no win-win here. If you yap too much, people get annoyed, if you don't say anything, people may get lost.

jettasian · Dec 15, 2011

skatinginbc said:
Because he seems to fall more often than others in competition, an indication that he might fall as often in practice or training. So what's his secret of falling without suffering injury? Is there such thing as a better technique for a fall?

I don't think Chan has fallen more often than others. He didn't fall much last year, did he? I think this LP is new, and more difficult and intricate, and he's skating edges are better and faster than ever, thus, more mistakes in the beginning. Once he has more time to skate the new program, I'm sure he will be fine.

With all these "falls" and "errors" that people seem to talk about Chan making him like the inconsistent skater. In fact, I think it's the opposite. He's always in the top 3 in his short/long skates. Unlike some other top skaters, one day, you are awesome, another day, you can have a total melt down, i.e. Oda, Abbott etc.

Bluebonnet · Dec 15, 2011

I apologize if this has been posted somewhere. GPF men's victory ceremony:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA7NZiZ-158&feature=related

skatinginbc · Dec 15, 2011

Bluebonnet said:
You are kidding, right?!

I was serious as I said. My intuition was: If proper falling is a basic skill of skating, then shouldn't it be rewarded (in terms of less deduction) just like full rotation alone receives partial credit despite its landing? If a failed jump with full rotation can be justified as demonstration or accomplishment of some skill, why can't a proper fall be seen as demonstration of some skill? One may argue that one (full rotation) is planned and the other (falling) is not, and my argument would be: one receives credit and the other not (though less deduction). I'm not a skater nor an athlete of any sort, so my concept about the technical or physical aspect of the sport can sound really stupid. And the responses I got did make me realize it was stupid. That's why I labeled myself a "casual fan". I'd best stick to what I know better, so I won't get laughed at.

But I still have this question: If the idea of less penalty for a proper fall sounds so ridiculous, why isn't the idea of rewarding a failed jump equally stupid?

Violet Bliss · Dec 15, 2011

There is no standard or points for "proper" falling. The reward is, hopefully, the avoidance of injuries, which is a much more serious penalty than any point deduction.

skatinginbc · Dec 15, 2011

SkateFiguring said:
There is no standard or points for "proper" falling.

Do you mean there is no such thing as "proper" falling or a universally accepted technique for a fall that can minimize injury as well as impact to the rest of the program? This is the technical part I honestly don't get: If skaters are trained to fall "properly", then there seems to be an existing standard defining what is good or bad.

Violet Bliss · Dec 15, 2011

I guess we have to wait for the ISU to issue detailed bullet points on falls, grading them on techniques, speed at its different stages, limb and butt positions, interpretation and levels of artistry, facial expression, etc. Until then, I don't have anything to go by except it is worth -1 and various negative GOE on the execution of the element that causes the fall.

Bluebonnet · Dec 15, 2011

skatinginbc said:
Do you mean there is no such thing as "proper" falling or a universally accepted technique for a fall that can minimize injury as well as impact to the rest of the program? This is the technical part I honestly don't get: If skaters are trained to fall "properly", then there seems to be an existing standard defining what is good or bad.

The skaters know the best what is proper and what could make them hurt more. Do you think the skaters wanted to fall awkwardly?

skatinginbc · Dec 15, 2011

Bluebonnet said:
The skaters know the best what is proper and what could make them hurt more. Do you think the skaters wanted to fall awkwardly?

I don't quite get your point, so I'll return with a similar response: "The skaters know the best what would make a jump and what could result in a fall. Do you think the skaters wanted to rotate fully but fall on the jump?"

FTnoona · Dec 15, 2011

skatinginbc said:
Do you mean there is no such thing as "proper" falling or a universally accepted technique for a fall that can minimize injury as well as impact to the rest of the program? This is the technical part I honestly don't get: If skaters are trained to fall "properly", then there seems to be an existing standard defining what is good or bad.

I don't think there is an actual "proper" way to fall. When skaters first start off they are told things to do to minimize injury like when you fall keep your head up, don't break a fall with you hands, try not to pop jumps in the middle of rotation, things like that. When I think of a bad fall, I think of one in which if I see the skater fall I end up thinking "gosh that is going to leave a mark" and those usually end up from not completing the rotation, being tilted in the air, being on the wrong part of the blade, etc.

skatinginbc · Dec 15, 2011

Thank you for the information, FTnoona.

Bluebonnet · Dec 16, 2011

skatinginbc said:
I don't quite get your point, so I'll return with a similar response: "The skaters know the best what would make a jump and what could result in a fall. Do you think the skaters wanted to rotate fully but fall on the jump?"

What I meant was the skaters would do their best to protect themselves. If they fell awkwardly, it must be they couldn't control it. Accident happens. They have had higher risk in injuring themselves already if they fall awkwardly. Why should you add higher punishment on them?

To answer your question, sometimes, yes. Buttle did it at 2006 Olympics. Takahashi did it at 2010 Olympics. They knew more than likely they'd fall. But they went for it anyway. If they could rotate enough, they could get part of the credit for the jump.

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 16, 2011

Learning to Fall is advantageous for a skater, but not in Competition. Competition .demands accuracy

silver.blades · Dec 20, 2011

As someone already said, most award falls are a result of an under rotation on the landing. So as skaters are deducted marks for under rotation there already is usually an extra penalty for skaters that fall awkwardly over those that do not.

spikydurian · Jan 24, 2012

enlight78 said:
Some of you guys are so biased. One only deserve to when if like there style and they are the cleanest. For the basic principle of COP has be the same since the beginning. Who ever does the most and earn the most points when. No matter how many mistakes. Patrick did two quads, tripla axel and triple triple, Once again difficulty wins- No else did more tonight. As soon as people can get over the chip of spotless programs on their shoulder understand when people are pushing their limits they won't be perfect they can start enjoying the program and stop hating on people who are being rewarded for pushin the limits of what they can do.

Yipeee... at last an enlightened and level headed comment. It's amusing reading the hysteria in this thread.

skatinginbc said:
Chan's feeling "less Canadian" hasn't stopped people from picking on him. So it is not so much about "Canadian" as about "abilities". If you are a skater with phenomenal abilities, then get ready to be picked like a clean-plucked hen.

I like your sense of humour!

skateflower said:
If Chan stops making mistake, the 'bitching' will stop, or
If Chan continues to make mistake but judges mark it correspondingly, the 'bitching' will stop.

It is really that simple.

Nah, a ***** will always be a *****.

GPF Men FP, Sat. 12/10 at 4:55 pm EST

Bluebonnet

jettasian

Match Penalty

jettasian

Match Penalty

Bluebonnet

skatinginbc

Violet Bliss

skatinginbc

Violet Bliss

Bluebonnet

skatinginbc

FTnoona

skatinginbc

Bluebonnet

Joesitz (RIP)

silver.blades

spikydurian

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