Patrick Chan | Page 201 | Golden Skate

Patrick Chan

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
"I go in to win. And then, whatever happens is fine with me."

Summary of the winning mindset.

Desire and detachment is the way to have what you desire. The desire should be so strong that all the necessary actions will be and have already been taken and it becomes a certainty. Patrick already knew this as he quoted a baseball hero who said that he knew he had already won as he got out and stepped on the home plate. I am sure it resonated with Patrick and his own winning experiences.

Likely all champions understand confident desire and possess it when they win. Detachment, however, is another story as it seems contradictory. Buddha said attachment is the cause of all sufferings. I stated here before that if one wants something too badly, then s/he will either chase the desired away or make a deal with the devil to suffer greatly. Patrick wanted that OGM too much that it slipped away from him. He needs to detach from the outcome, be fine with it however it turns out. Over attachment creates worries and doubts eating away the confidences.

He attaches too much to the outcome, and the possible outcomes of the outcome, the main one being his perceived value to his supporters. The self imposed expectations weighs too much on him. When he had problems with debuting his quads, he turned to Boitano who understood this and taught him how to focus during the quad entries. But that did not take care of the root cause which stays to grip him whenever the stakes are high in his mind. Patrick needs to rid these unnecessary and useless concerns or at least find the reliable way to stay on the moment when competing. Focusing on the music is certainly the way to go, but maybe not when the lyrics are hard to relate to or disturbing if one really listens.
 
Last edited:

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
I explained my new name when it was discovered:

Post# 3397

The Red and the Blue Pills are of course well known from the movie The Matrix. We have free will and need not limit our choices from just what are offered.

Appropriately, Patrick's new SP costume takes on my new hue and my wish for him, violet bliss.

Now, does Guru SF needs to transmute as well?

and i had quoted your post.... i have such short memory... :) thanks for reminding me ;)
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
focus on the process not the results....

that's what helped me the most.
Summary of the winning mindset.

Desire and detachment is the way to have what you desire. The desire should be so strong that all the necessary actions will be and have already been taken and it becomes a certainty. Patrick already knew this as he quoted a baseball hero who said that he knew he had already won as he got out and stepped on the home plate. I am sure it resonated with Patrick and his own winning experiences.

Likely all champions understand confident desire and possess it when they win. Detachment, however, is another story as it seems contradictory. Buddha said attachment is the cause of all sufferings. I stated here before that if one wants something too badly, then s/he will either chase the desired away or make a deal with the devil to suffer greatly. Patrick wanted that OGM too much that it slipped away from him. He needs to detach from the outcome, be fine with it however it turns out. Over attachment creates worries and doubts eating away the confidences.

He attaches too much to the outcome, and the possible outcomes of the outcome, the main one being his perceived value to his supporters. The self imposed expectations weighs too much on him. When he had problems with debuting his quads, he turned to Boitano who understood this and taught him how to focus during the quad entries. But that did not take care of the root cause which stays to grip him whenever the stakes are high in his mind. Patrick needs to rid these unnecessary and useless concerns or at least find the reliable way to stay on the moment when competing. Focusing on the music is certainly the way to go, but maybe not when the lyrics are hard to relate to or disturbing if one really listens.
 

blueberryhill

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Appropriately, Patrick's new SP costume takes on my new hue and my wish for him, violet bliss.
Do you have something to share with us? :coffee: (If you have news, pleeeze share!!!)

I've been enjoying the conversation, I'd like to join in with my own observations and opinions but at this point I'll refrain for a couple of reasons. Everybody is making VERY good points and mirrors what I feel too.

Life is simple and blissful when you do what's right regardless of others' opinions and reactions, which you can't control anyway.

Focus on what you love and do and stay in the moment, Patrick. Never mind the noises, expectation, judgments, etc. You can't please them all. Just stay honest, successful, and happy, giving your best however it's received. We love you as you are.
Yes, this is true and applies to everybody BUT sometimes "The longest journey you will make in your life is the one from your head to your heart." I know this from personal experience and I'm not living my life in the public eye. Sometimes the easiest thing in life is the hardest to understand.

http://www.pixteller.com/pdata/t/l-183749.jpg
 

blueberryhill

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
... he never said he was going in to win... but he said, pretty much that he had other agendas than medals and so on...he wanted to skate... for the love of skating...
And unfortunately Patrick was bashed for those comments. However, imo, his masterpiece "Chopin" is truly a manifestation of that agenda.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
focus on the process not the results....

that's what helped me the most.

But you need a vision for the process. Enjoy the process but be flexible with an open mind for better alternatives to realize the vision. Obstacles are often guide posts.

Of course Patrick is human. He is extremely successful and open, making him a great subject to observe and validate success factors. We are discussing his human vulnerabilities but don't forget he has so much in him that makes him so successful. I believe he will overcome his comeback jitters and amaze us all again.

One of my favorite American Native stories has an old man telling his grandkid about two wolves fighting inside him.

I trust Patrick knows to feed and nurture the the wolf that will serve him well.
 

calica

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Ohh thanks, my native language is not English... and I thought Patrick had changed his costume for the SP and I wanted pictures XD
 

vivley

"pcskatingfan.com"
Medalist
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Nice review of Patrick's skating at Lake Placid in the Lake Placid News:

Chan skated with power and elan to "Dear Prudence/Blackbird," by the Beatles. Both are obviously considered some of the best new performers, and younger skating fans were no doubt thrilled to see them skate alongside classic Stars on Ice professionals.
 

vivley

"pcskatingfan.com"
Medalist
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
And now, to stir the pot - what do you all think of Rafael Arutyunyan's opinion of Patrick from this article?

Interviewer: You don’t believe in Patrick Chan?

Rafael: In my opinion, Patrick made a completely wrong conclusions from what happened to him in recent years. He needs a technical coach.

Interviewer: Mishin?

Rafael: He needs Mishin, yes. And he works with choreographer. While Mishin, may not agree, because it’s a big responsibility. Chan lost several years. With all his ideal skating it’s necessary to return the technical elements.
......
Interviewer: And I also completely agree with Arutyunyan about Patrick Chan. If he’s serious about his come back he need a technical coach not a choreographer no matter how great she is.



Arutyunyan and the interviewer may have misunderstood, because Kathy is not a choreographer... :confused2:
 
Last edited:

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Arutyunyan and the interviewer may have misunderstood, because Kathy is not a choreographer... :confused2:

They don't care. They just want to scorn her as "not a real coach". I suppose Rafael the real coach must be proud that his student Adam Rippon regularly beats Patrick who is coached by a "choreographer". Wait............
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
the process has a vision :) getting better, working harder, being happy at working harder :) ... that's the vision... when the focus is on results or goals, then it becomes a medal or a score, or perfection.. these are not always in our own hands... or bring a lot of pressure.
But you need a vision for the process. Enjoy the process but be flexible with an open mind for better alternatives to realize the vision. Obstacles are often guide posts.

Of course Patrick is human. He is extremely successful and open, making him a great subject to observe and validate success factors. We are discussing his human vulnerabilities but don't forget he has so much in him that makes him so successful. I believe he will overcome his comeback jitters and amaze us all again.

One of my favorite American Native stories has an old man telling his grandkid about two wolves fighting inside him.

I trust Patrick knows to feed and nurture the the wolf that will serve him well.
 
Last edited:

calica

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
I agree with Arutyunyan about Patrick needs to strengthen his technical side but I do not understand the obsession (of Arutyunyan and other people) of despise her coach.
There are coaches who use expert to improve pirouettes, steps, ect
Why Patrick should change coach instead of cooperate with a specialist?
 

vivley

"pcskatingfan.com"
Medalist
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Now, now. We don't want to offend fans of others skaters, lest they come here and try to police our thoughts. :biggrin:

"With all his ideal skating it’s necessary to return the technical elements."

Hmm, if Patrick's skating is already "ideal", why all the criticism?

Perhaps what people mean when they say he needs a technical coach is that he should get back into the technical points chase like "everyone else" is?

Here's Patrick's answer to that from August of last year:

While Chan admires [their] talents, he feels their programs are based on the jumps. “I have to admit it. They’ve found the formula. They’ve found their formula to success, which is doing the quads... and whatnot."

“But as the sport moves on, I want to push it forward and have people remember figure skating, not just people being successful and getting medals... I want to... become a versatile skater, as opposed to just a technical skater.”

“I want to flip the scale back to where it’s more balanced. That’s my goal. I want to see great young skaters come up and actually be beautiful with great lines and great extensions, great power and great flow. People love that. I think that’s what skating is all about. Skating with expression and actually performing is where you can make a difference, and that’s where the sport can change.”

I've noticed that so far, Patrick only gets criticized for his technical skills when he flubs a jump. There's hardly any criticism of his line, extension, speed, flow, and actual skating skills. But, as this article pointed out:

The dizzying spins, spiral sequences, and the intricate footwork are all very hard, but deceptively so. Audiences tend to associate difficulty with risk. When skaters launch into their jumps, we hold our breath and wonder if they'll land upright. We don't, however, expect to see skaters fall on a spin or trip over their feet during footwork regardless of how hard or highly valued a particular spin might be.

Unfortunately, as Dick Button lamented, the sport has turned into "figure jumping", and Patrick is trying to restore balance to the FS universe...
 

lauravvv

Medalist
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Country
Latvia
Now, now. We don't want to offend fans of others skaters, lest they come here and try to police our thoughts. :biggrin:
Do you really need to go on about this? I was one of those supposed "fans of other skaters". I tried to explain several times that I am also Patrick's fan and that I was his fan already before I became that other skater's fan, but seems that no one (or almost no one) paid attention. Still, recently there was another occassion when I wanted to reply to someone who continued the picking at other skaters while "playing by the rules" - that is, not mentioning those skaters by their names, although it was clear to everyone who they were talking about. But I refrained from responding, so as to not disturb the peace. And I haven't see anyone else "policing" here recently either. So why do some people (like you) feel the need to continue speaking about this?


Hmm, if Patrick's skating is already "ideal", why all the criticism?
I think it's pretty obvious Arutunian meant that Patrick's skating skills are ideal, but he needs more work on jumps.

My opinion on this is - Patrick needs to work more on jumps if he wants to be able to compete with Yuzuru and Javier, but if he really wants to skate just for himself and the public and to challenge himself in other ways than technically, then he does not need that.

Unfortunately, as Dick Button lamented, the sport has turned into "figure jumping", and Patrick is trying to restore balance to the FS universe...
While I agree that the focus is first and foremost on jumps now (because such is the system and the judging), I don't agree that other top skaters are doing nothing else at all besides jumping. Almost all of them have good skating skills, although not on Patrick's level, all of them are performers each in his own way, and all of them feel music really well (I am not including Boyang Jin here yet). Besides, even though the main focus is on jumps, skaters still need to do a lot of other things to be at the top currently, so it's almost laughable and certainly exaggerated to say that other top skaters are doing nothing except jumps.
 
Last edited:

vivley

"pcskatingfan.com"
Medalist
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
I agree with Arutyunyan about Patrick needs to strengthen his technical side but I do not understand the obsession (of Arutyunyan and other people) of despise her coach.
There are coaches who use expert to improve pirouettes, steps, ect
Why Patrick should change coach instead of cooperate with a specialist?

There's no reason why Patrick couldn't cooperate with a specialist(s), and maybe he is already.

I did find this interesting About Sports page about Kathy Johnson, and her credentials are pretty impressive. She was accepted to Julliard as a teen and has a Master’s Degree in Dance. She also performed as a dancer in New York and Germany.

Johnson believes that the best movers are the better skaters. As figure skaters become more comfortable with controlling their weight and movements on the floor, they eventually translate that to the ice. When they get control over the center of their bodies, and move from their core, they can free their upper body, head, neck and arms to be more expressive with greater ease and flow of movement.

I can see how this training has translated into Patrick's skating, and that's why coaches have asked her to work with their skaters. Recently, when asked how she would respond to criticism that Patrick should pick a coach with a more technically-known background than herself, she said confidently:

"It doesn't bother me, honestly... The thing that would bother me is... if the skaters I work with felt that way, or if the federation I worked with felt that way... but I don't do what other people do..."

Too bad that interview was cut short. I would have loved to hear more of her response to this recurring criticism. So far it seems that the people she works with are satisfied with her work.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
johnson is also extremely positive... and that's definitely a huge asset for Patrick....
 

vivley

"pcskatingfan.com"
Medalist
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Yes, she's seems very warm and uses touch for positive reinforcement and encouragement. It doesn't always work with Patrick - he was stiff as a board when she tried to give him a hug after the GPF SP. But I love how animated she was after both of his long programs, vs. some of the other coaches who were more stoic.

Perhaps there is also some bias against her because she is a woman coaching a top male skater? I'm not sure if this type of gender bias exists in the sport?

I hope during performances Patrick can consistently do what she told him to at SC - to take his mind and put it out on the ice and into his music, ie, shut off his brain and skate freely.
 
Top