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http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-205151-222374-nav-list,00.html?id=985
V/M won the FD and D/W were second.
V/M won the FD and D/W were second.
ISU judging error for dance results GPF
- Thread starter demarinis5
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Didn't Doris call this out? Doris is right!
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The letter minimizes the issue. Every competition that used the sportcentric software probably has the problem. That includes Senior B's, US Sectionals, etc. etc.
While the maximum error involved is 0.5, there are cases when a personal best, or a qualification score for 4CC's, etc. might be affected. If you are worried about a particular score of a combination lift which was called level 4 in both parts of the combo, the GOE should be equal to the average of the group of judges' GOE scores, with the highest and lowest dropped.
Examples:
If you got all 3's, your total GOE should be 3.00 and your score for the element should be 11.00.
If you got all 2's your total GOE should 2.00 and your score for the element should be 10.00
If you got half 2's and half 3's, your total GOE should be 2.50 and your score for the element should be 10.50.
I am not sure whether the negative GOE's work the same way. In some elements, the negative side is less or more than the positive side, but probably the same is true.
Consequently if you were behind a team which got -3 on a level 4 combo lift, their score for the element should be 5.00, but you should check, because I'm not sure about this part, not having read the original description of work.
And so forth.
If you check the Skate America protocols, you will find that after the high and low are dropped, P&B had all 2's. They only got 9.70 for their combo lift, rather than 10.00.
While the maximum error involved is 0.5, there are cases when a personal best, or a qualification score for 4CC's, etc. might be affected. If you are worried about a particular score of a combination lift which was called level 4 in both parts of the combo, the GOE should be equal to the average of the group of judges' GOE scores, with the highest and lowest dropped.
Examples:
If you got all 3's, your total GOE should be 3.00 and your score for the element should be 11.00.
If you got all 2's your total GOE should 2.00 and your score for the element should be 10.00
If you got half 2's and half 3's, your total GOE should be 2.50 and your score for the element should be 10.50.
I am not sure whether the negative GOE's work the same way. In some elements, the negative side is less or more than the positive side, but probably the same is true.
Consequently if you were behind a team which got -3 on a level 4 combo lift, their score for the element should be 5.00, but you should check, because I'm not sure about this part, not having read the original description of work.
And so forth.
If you check the Skate America protocols, you will find that after the high and low are dropped, P&B had all 2's. They only got 9.70 for their combo lift, rather than 10.00.
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Scoring error at GPF
The ISU posted about a scoring error on their website :
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-205151-222374-nav-list,00.html?id=985
What do you think? (Please keep it civil and be mindful of forum rules)
The ISU posted about a scoring error on their website :
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-205151-222374-nav-list,00.html?id=985
What do you think? (Please keep it civil and be mindful of forum rules)
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Scott was most unhappy about their PCS scores, which were unchanged, and still lower than D&W's.
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Well I think I'd be mad too if that kind of error happened to me.
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What is shocking to me is that no one checked until now. This has been going on at every event using isu software this year, including US Sectionals (where Hubbell & Donahue were slightly underscored), and Russian nationals ( where Pushkash & Guerreiro were underscored by about .25). (I checked)
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sure i would be mad too, but how scott acted about it was uncalled for. but the error was in technical elements, not pcs, which is what scott was mad about mostly, if i remember right. they still are lower than D/W.
Also remember that D/W got one level three element compared to V/M. Had they been on equal footing as far as base value goes, they would have won the free dance as well. Still knowing that the margin between them is so razor thin will likely light a fire under both teams and spur them on to get that much better as they seek for any discernible edge. It really can go either way with these skaters.
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And this is my problem with these discussions. After all, we could say that if V/M had higher base value in their SD, they might have won that, or been closer, etc. Or we could presume that higher base value leads to lower quality elements, as it could. OR we could say that if V/M had more secure lifts (particularly that curve lift), the lead would be bigger. I'm not convinced it will go either way, as you are, though, and your post really reaffirms why.
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I think you are right, jcoates, and that's why it is so exciting watching them!
Also, in the US sports coverage, both Tanith & Terry Gannon thought that both the tech panel & the judges were rather easy markers, and warned that we should expect lower marks at worlds.
(That was because you can hardly expect much higher).
Both teams got mostly 3's.
TES:
Of 72 marks, D&W got three 1's (all from the same judge), 25 2's, and 44 3's or 61% perfect marks.
Of 63 marks (one less lift) V&M got one 0, four 1's, 29 2's and 29 3's. The 0 and all but one of the 1's were for the first lift in their program (fans call it the 'jazz lift') (CuLi4) or 46% perfect marks.
V&M got all level 4's, D&W got a level 3 on the final step sequence to the polka (they lost 1.5 points of base level there).
As to PCS:
D&W got twelve 10's of 45 marks (26% perfect marks) Six of 9 judges gave them at least one 10. 11 of the marks were sprinkled around in interp & timing, choreo & performance. One 10 was in Skating skills.
V&M got 10 10's of 45 marks (22% perfect marks) sprinkled throughout interp & timing, choreo & performance. Six of 9 judges gave them at least one 10, too.
Both teams are darn near perfect in the current system--time to make some changes to the system to give all teams more room to grow.
Also, in the US sports coverage, both Tanith & Terry Gannon thought that both the tech panel & the judges were rather easy markers, and warned that we should expect lower marks at worlds.
(That was because you can hardly expect much higher).
Both teams got mostly 3's.
TES:
Of 72 marks, D&W got three 1's (all from the same judge), 25 2's, and 44 3's or 61% perfect marks.
Of 63 marks (one less lift) V&M got one 0, four 1's, 29 2's and 29 3's. The 0 and all but one of the 1's were for the first lift in their program (fans call it the 'jazz lift') (CuLi4) or 46% perfect marks.
V&M got all level 4's, D&W got a level 3 on the final step sequence to the polka (they lost 1.5 points of base level there).
As to PCS:
D&W got twelve 10's of 45 marks (26% perfect marks) Six of 9 judges gave them at least one 10. 11 of the marks were sprinkled around in interp & timing, choreo & performance. One 10 was in Skating skills.
V&M got 10 10's of 45 marks (22% perfect marks) sprinkled throughout interp & timing, choreo & performance. Six of 9 judges gave them at least one 10, too.
Both teams are darn near perfect in the current system--time to make some changes to the system to give all teams more room to grow.
So you're saying it's more likely for V/M then?
Worlds outcome will all depend on how the two teams perform on that day. The teams are so close that neither has a particular advantage---as long as they stay on their feet.
It should be noted that the GPF result was NOT changed---D/W still won the GPF FD. The ISU acknowledged the software scoring error and presumably intend to fix it. Results can only be changed within a limited timeframe and the error was discovered long after that time had passed.
It should be noted that the GPF result was NOT changed---D/W still won the GPF FD. The ISU acknowledged the software scoring error and presumably intend to fix it. Results can only be changed within a limited timeframe and the error was discovered long after that time had passed.
Chuckm, I might be wrong, but I get the impression from all the dance threads this season that IP is fairly pessimistic about V/M's chances going forward because the current incarnation of COP seems to base almost every scored criterion (even the supposed artistic ones) on a technical assessment. I think he feels that under that system, it's less and less likely to catch D/W. As big a D/W fan as I am, I'm not convinced that IP's theory holds true. (Mind you I very much enjoy V/M as well.) I saw Pogue's theory not come to fruition in 2009-2010. V/M seemed at a slight technical disadvantage early in the season, but then they cleaned and sharpened everything up and rode that improvement to victory. In that season as well, both teams were getting a shockingly high number of 10s , particularly towards the end.
I agree with you however, that all other meetings this season really will come down to the performance on the day. It should be incredibly exciting.
I agree with you however, that all other meetings this season really will come down to the performance on the day. It should be incredibly exciting.
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Nope. I'd be surprised if V/M ever beat D/W again.
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Let's hope their friendship was worth those 0.5 points. (Though, little mistakes like that do tend to add up.)
With that said, my the best pair win at Worlds, whomever they may be.
With that said, my the best pair win at Worlds, whomever they may be.
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I lost my (long) post explaining why, but briefly I believe that D/W's strengths in both TES and PCS outweigh V/M's strengths in both, as the judging currently is.
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Here's my thread on PCS.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...Wrestle-with-Ice-Dancing-PCS-Rules&highlight=
I came to the same conclusion as IP and the GPF judges did, based on this year's version of PCS rules. D&W by a hair.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...Wrestle-with-Ice-Dancing-PCS-Rules&highlight=
I came to the same conclusion as IP and the GPF judges did, based on this year's version of PCS rules. D&W by a hair.
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