Freedom of Religion

It is interesting that the Pledge of Allegiance does not include equality because Francis Bellamy, the original writer of the Pledge, thought that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance).

And actually the Baptists, who are now so predominant in the U.S., came here because of persecution in Europe because of a crucial difference between them and the state religions of the European nations. Baptists and Anabaptists (people such as the Amish) believed in baptism when the person was old enough to profess belief--which could be in childhood or adulthood. Catholics and Protestants such as Lutherans and Anglicans believed in infant baptism, to protect a child in the event of an early death.

This is true. The Baptist church in Old Mystic, CT, (a village that is part of the towns of Groton & Stonington, CT) was the first Baptist Church in CT (founded 1705). At the time, CT had the "Established Church" and a new church had to make a request of the government in Hartford, CT. A request was made to Hartford, which may have never answered, in any case the Baptists just kept meeting.

http://oldmysticbaptistchurch.org/i...nt&view=category&layout=blog&id=46&Itemid=108

Atheists are the most hated minority in the US, more so than Muslims, homosexuals, and African-Americans. "Several state constitutions make the protection of persons from religious discrimination conditional on their acknowledgment of the existence of a deity, making freedom of religion in those states inapplicable to atheists." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_the_United_States).

My religious belief has been influenced by the Confucius teaching: 敬鬼神而遠之 "Staying at a respectful distance from ghosts and deities." I don't deny nor acknowledge the existence of a deity. Does "freedom of religion" apply to me? No religion, no special protection--that was how I felt in the US Bible Belt.

skatinginbc said:

Atheists are the most hated minority in the US, more so than Muslims, homosexuals, and African-Americans.

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I doubt that, despite the studies quoted. Most atheists just go about their business without paying any attention to religion and without religious people paying any attention to them. Nobody goes around looking for atheists to beat up, or atheistic meeting houses to fire bomb. Atheism is not, by its a nature, the sort of thing that anyone is going to get up on a soap box and start preaching in favor of, thus inciting strong passions in those of a different persuasion.

Natually I wouldn't want my daughter to marry one, but other than that...

In fact I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the "religion" of the majority of Americans is something like, "God? Yeah, I suppose he exists. He doesn't bother me and I don't bother him."

My religious belief has been influenced by the Confucius teaching: 敬鬼神而遠之 "Staying at a respectful distance from ghosts and deities." I don't deny nor acknowledge the existence of a deity. Does "freedom of religion" apply to me? No religion, no special protection -- that was how I felt in the US Bible Belt.

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Now I'm curious. When you lived in the Bible Belt, did you feel the need of any special protection? Did people accost you and threaten you and browbeat you? (They may have invited you to attend their church in the hope that you would see the light, or press the occasion Watchtower upon you, but a person does not require constitution protections against minor nuisances like that.)

I would have guessed that the typical reaction (if any) to your Confucian tenets would be something like, "Oh those Chinese -- what a strange lot they are." (Or -- "Oh those poor Chinese; they are all going to Hell when they die. Oh well.")

BC, to add to your point, I'd also mention that in some parts of the Bible Belt (not in formerly French Louisiana, of course), Catholics would be looked on askance. Also, if you notice, a lot of evangelicals are having trouble with presidential candidates Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman, because they are Mormons. I imagine that these days, it's exponentially harder for Muslims in those areas (and Sikhs, who because of their turbans are often mistaken for Muslims by some un-savvy people).

How Are Atheists Discriminated Against?

The story of a Mississippi couple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiyJzWy3CDQ
The story of a University professor in Oklahoma: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDANe75bUwY

"They have freedom of speech, you know. I can't do anything about it. Do you have a religion that acknowledges a god? No, then your belief is not protected by the law," stated an Oklahoma sheriff to whom I complained about the regular shouting and harassment from a group of church goers (Obviously we were an interracial couple. It all started from racial slurs and gradually expanded to our religious practice or the lack thereof). Of course, the sheriff's interpretation of law might not be correct, but it shows that the phrase "freedom of religion" could lead to discriminatory acts as I have argued in post #13.

Did I tell the story before that a little girl saw me in a shopping mall and screamed "Mom, an alien"? Her mother speedily protected her with both arms and stared at me in hostility as if I were a monster that would attack anybody at any minute. I'm glad we finally did a library search (no internet at that time) and found the best place to live in the world. "Why do you choose Vancouver?" asked an immigration officer. "Because it is the best place to live in the world." He was happy to hear that.

South Carolina's State Constitution, Article VI, Section 2: "No person who denies the existence of the Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."
Texas' State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4, "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

Mathman said:

In fact I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the "religion" of the majority of Americans is something like, "God? Yeah, I suppose he exists. He doesn't bother me and I don't bother him."

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That's actually very close to my belief.

I'm sorry you went through that, bc, though unfortunately not surprised. It's all too easy for people who live in homogeneous communities to view their own way of life as the only way. And if one happens not only to think differently but to look different--it's hard to keep a low profile. I'm glad you found a place where that doesn't apply. Where I live is the same. The two owners of the small company I work for are an interracial couple, and two of my co-workers are also each part of an interracial couple: one white/African American and one white/Asian American. It's just everyday living here. I like to think that communities like your current one and mine are the future. Unfortunately, they're not the present everywhere, yet.

skatinginbc said:

South Carolina's State Constitution, Article VI, Section 2: "No person who denies the existence of the Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."

Texas' State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4, "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

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I am surprised. I do not see how this passes (federal) Constitutional muster. I bet it will be challenged in court some day, in a few hundred years, after the citizens of South Carolina and Texas mellow out a little.

About your own personal experiences, next time you could say, "My religion? Oh, I'm a Confucianist." They will probably reply, "Well, we all worship the same God, under different names around the world."

Edited to add: Better yet, say, "I'm a Zoroastrian -- you know, like the Three Wise Men in the Bible who gave gifts to the baby Jesus."

OK, I'm on a roll. Tell them that you are a Buddhist and you believe in Supreme Non-Being.

About keeping a respectful distance from occult spirits, St. Augustine, in the fifth century C.E., wrote:

The good Christian should beware of mathematicians... The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell."

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Mathman said:

believe in Supreme Non-Being.

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That sounds like Sheldon's religion also known as Cooperism.

Mathman said:

The good Christian should beware of mathematicians...

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Maybe what Augustine meant was "Mathmen". Mathwomen aren't someone to be afraid of.

Ah, but there are no "real" "Mathwomen". Ask some of the "Mathmen" who were around when I was a college student.
And yet this book was written during that time period:
http://www.amazon.com/Women-Mathematics-Lynn-M-Osen/dp/0262650096

But not Mathman, he's a good guy.

dorispulaski said:

Ah, but there are no "real" "Mathwomen". Ask some of the "Mathmen" who were around when I was a college student.

And yet this book was written during that time period:

http://www.amazon.com/Women-Mathematics-Lynn-M-Osen/dp/0262650096

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I see you can get it for $17.12. Whereas this famous book is worth only #12.29 in today's market.

http://www.amazon.com/Men-Mathematics-Touchstone-Books-Bell/dp/0671628186

dorispulaski said:

But not Mathman, he's a good guy.

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Is he? He is spellbinding us with his wicked humor and darkening our spirit with his algebraic puzzles that confine us in the bonds of mathematical Hell.

dorispulaski said:

Ah, but there are no "real" "Mathwomen". Ask some of the "Mathmen" who were around when I was a college student.
And yet this book was written during that time period:
http://www.amazon.com/Women-Mathematics-Lynn-M-Osen/dp/0262650096

But not Mathman, he's a good guy.

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I don't know whether Florence Nightingale is in the book you cite here, Doris, but apparently she was quite an accomplished statistician, a skill she used in later life to study the distribution of patient mortality. She apparently developed a kind of graphic called the polar area diagram.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Nightingale

I discovered this appealing aspect of Nightingale when I was researching Clara Barton and went to read up on Nightingale to compare these two pioneering women. I had known what I thought was a lot about both of them, but this area of Nightingale's expertise came as a total surprise to me. I wondered whether it's generally discussed in the math world.

Does Mathman, apparently our Lizard King of wicked mathematics, have any info on this?

Florence Nightingale invented the polar histogram as a method for displaying data on seasonal variations in deaths from various causes among wounded soldiers.

This idea found a modern application in robotics, called a “vector field histogram.” Suppose you want to design a robot that is “aware” of its environment, so it doesn’t keep bumping into obstacles in its path. So at each point of the robot’s trajectory it creates a circular distribution of visual data (a Nightingale graph), and then moves in the direction that minimizes the statistical noise that is before it. (Something like that. GS member Seniorita works in this field – maybe she can say something more about this. I once saw a video of two of Seniorita’s robots that her team programmed to learn to work together toward a common goal.)

The book that Doris P. references begins with the famous fifth century female mathematician and astronomer Hypatia. But the first named writer in history was a lady named Enheduanna, Priestess of the moon goddess of Sumeria and Akkad, 2300 BCE. She is best known today for her extant poetry, praising the moon goddess and asking the goddess’ help in destroying her political enemies. (Go on, with your bad self!)


Among her duties was running the temple observatory and keeping track of the phases of the moon. She made contributions to the Sumerican calendar that still exist (in setting the day for Easter, for instance). Mathematics being indistinguishable from astronomy, astrology, fortune-telling, etc., in those days, you could say that Enheduanna is history’s first mathematician. (There were of course mathematicians in pre-history, but we do not know their names.)

So...you're saying that Nightingale is partly responsible for the Roomba?

Seriously; that is so cool about the polar histogram. And Seniorita, you are awesome also! Hypatia of Alexandria would be proud of you. I never heard of Enheduanna. I'll go look her up.

Years ago, the artist Judy Chicago created an impressive assemblage called The Dinner Party, which consisted of embroidery and plates representing significant historical and legendary women. Hypatia is represented there, and Nightingale. I can't recall if her statistical work was mentioned.