Worlds, 4CC, Jr. Worlds Teams | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Worlds, 4CC, Jr. Worlds Teams

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
When there is only one spot available, the decision can't be made lightly when there is not an obvious and outstanding choice. Besides the issue of gaining more entries for next year, I imagine a federation has to also consider the future and which skater has the most potential and can gain the most from the experience. Of the three Ladies medalists, obviously Katelyn is the potential future star but she's not eligible. Amelie seems to have maxed out while Cynthia maybe in a temporary setback this season with the best still to come or at least lost level regained, which would get higher international scores than Amelie. Amelie, OTOH, has outskated Cynthia this season and is the current national champion, the conventional representative to the World Championships.

I think it's prudent of SC to let Amelie and Cynthia demonstrate the fight in them close to the time of Worlds. The one with the winner mindset will win, just as Amelie demonstrated at the Nationals. If she maintains that then she will shut up everybody and continue on to her dream of representing Canada at Worlds.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
It did cross my mind that maybe MT/M should get SOMETHING, but maybe SC was just totally disappointed in that meltdown they had and don't want to see that again on the international stage this year (especially since Lawrence and Swiegers did skate well and should get THEIR 4CC spot.. they would have to be bumped for MT/M unless D/R or D/W decided not to go).
 

heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
It did cross my mind that maybe MT/M should get SOMETHING, but maybe SC was just totally disappointed in that meltdown they had and don't want to see that again on the international stage this year (especially since Lawrence and Swiegers did skate well and should get THEIR 4CC spot.. they would have to be bumped for MT/M unless D/R or D/W decided not to go).

I also enjoy Lawrence/Sweigers and they should not be overlooked. I just think that Skate Canada is being short-sighted here in pairs. Yes SC may be disappointed in MT-M but the best thing for MT-M is a chance to redeem themselves - like I said they just missed getting into the GP finals. As a fan, I would love to see 3 pairs at Worlds next year since we seem to have a variety of teams and all of them are continuing to grow as competitors, including D/W. Again if MT-M aren't injured, what type of message are you sending to the international field - that you are "dumping" this team....
 

nadster

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
My general thoughts on these selections. Note for JW , I don't talk as much about JW spots for 2013 ( which JW determines ) but JGP slots ( which JW also determines and IMO is so much more important )

Ladies

Given the international season thus far , I think the selections are just.

At first I thought just give it to Amelie as she has outskated Phaneuf so far this year but I also don't have any faith in giving it straight to somebody who seems to not have a lutz or flip.

Perhaps Najarro might perform better in an international competition when there is a team around her. No guarantees as of yet but she has never performed well in her JGPs or JW last year.

That said , I think the JW results are more important than the senior ones this year. Last seaon because we failed to get to the FS, we were cut down to only 4 JGP slots. This season was a lost season for our junior development. I think Osmond is the right choice because she is the most likely to put out 3 consistent performances. I fear Najarro would have a meltdown somewhere like the SP at the challenge or the JW short last year. We can't afford to have more years like this.

Charbonneau and Najarro age out next season. With the improvements in our top junior and novice ladies this year, we have a lot of good choices for JGP slots. We have the deepest selection of ladies to choose from in years.

I think that 14 JGP slots next year is impossible ( the fact that Osmond does not have a lutz is an issue for that ) but I think that 7 slots ( countries 4- 6) is entirely doable.

That said I hope we get 14 JGP slots because we have the resources to fill them up with decent skaters next season.

Men

I hope Chan pulls out of 4CC so that Balde goes instead. The coaching change has already been good for Balde and I expect huge improvements in him over the summer.

My expectations for JW is that Firus and Nam finish top 10 ( doable for both of them ) and that we secure 7 JGP slots ( top 3 countries for 14 slots unlikely ).

Dance

Hopefully at JW we somehow manage to get the 14 JGP slots next year. It is possible but will be tough.

Pairs

Moore-Towers/Moscovitch would likely have ensured 3 senior spots.

If Duhamel/Radford can get into the top 5 ( which is very likely at the moment ) , then Dube/Wolfe do have an outside chance of finishing high enough to get 3 world slots.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I also enjoy Lawrence/Sweigers and they should not be overlooked. I just think that Skate Canada is being short-sighted here in pairs. Yes SC may be disappointed in MT-M but the best thing for MT-M is a chance to redeem themselves - like I said they just missed getting into the GP finals. As a fan, I would love to see 3 pairs at Worlds next year since we seem to have a variety of teams and all of them are continuing to grow as competitors, including D/W. Again if MT-M aren't injured, what type of message are you sending to the international field - that you are "dumping" this team....

I see what you mean about MT/M, for sure. Maybe Skate Canada has high hopes for Dube/Wolfe in the future though because of Dube/Davison's success (although it was limited) and the progress D/W made in such a short time. Maybe they think of D/W as potential world medalists.. more so than MT/M.. although of course that remains to be seen.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Men

I hope Chan pulls out of 4CC so that Balde goes instead. The coaching change has already been good for Balde and I expect huge improvements in him over the summer.

Why the heck would Chan or Skate Canada want to do that?! Just for Balde out of all the Men?
 

heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
I would be surprised if Chan does not go to 4CCs since it is in Colorado Springs and that's where he trains...
 

Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Why the heck would Chan or Skate Canada want to do that?! Just for Balde out of all the Men?

Balde has never really lived up to expectations either as a senior or a junior so why would SC go out on a limb for him now. Jeremy Ten, OTOH, has exceeded expectations in the past (4CC, 2006) and could do so again, if he can get his 3A on track. He's only been back on the ice a short time and already he's got all of his triples back, and he is landing the axel in practice. I was happy to see Jeremy win the bronze and the trip to Colorado Springs.
 

nadster

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
Balde has never really lived up to expectations either as a senior or a junior so why would SC go out on a limb for him now. Jeremy Ten, OTOH, has exceeded expectations in the past (4CC, 2006) and could do so again, if he can get his 3A on track. He's only been back on the ice a short time and already he's got all of his triples back, and he is landing the axel in practice. I was happy to see Jeremy win the bronze and the trip to Colorado Springs.

Sure this year was disappointing but I would not say that Balde did not live up to expectations as a junior. He did make the JGPF one year and even beat Kevin Reynolds at JW that year. Unfortunately immediately after that the injuries came making him miss almost 2 years of training. The injuries prevented him from having the proper transition to seniors that he should have had,

I think that Balde can go places with the new coaching situation. Kudos to him for realising he needed a change after Skate Canada.
 

heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
I see what you mean about MT/M, for sure. Maybe Skate Canada has high hopes for Dube/Wolfe in the future though because of Dube/Davison's success (although it was limited) and the progress D/W made in such a short time. Maybe they think of D/W as potential world medalists.. more so than MT/M.. although of course that remains to be seen.

Well if Skate Canada is going to play hardball with MT/M based on nationals and last year's worlds, then it will be interesting to see if D/W do not do well at 4CCs. If Skate Canada is going to play hardball with MT/M that's fine. But if D/W don't perform well with simpler programs, then I don't want to hear excuses from Skate Canada or the commentators that this is a young team and building. Does this sound harsh - yes it is.
 

skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Just in case anyone missed it, here's the official announcement from Skate Canada.

http://skatecanada.ca/AboutUs/NewsDetails/tabid/2157/sni[2797]/1434/language/en-US/Default.aspx

The entries are as follows:

ISU World Figure Skating Championships, Nice, France - March 26 - April 1, 2012
Men
Patrick Chan, 21, Toronto, Ont.
Kevin Reynolds, 21, Coquitlam, B.C.

Ice Dance
Tessa Virtue, 22, London, Ont. / Scott Moir, 24, Ilderton, Ont.
Kaitlyn Weaver, 22, Waterloo, Ont. – Houston, TX / Andrew Poje, 24, Waterloo, Ont.
Kharis Ralph, 19, Toronto, Ontario / Asher Hill, 20, Pickering, Ontario

Pair
Meagan Duhamel, 26, Lively, Ont. / Eric Radford, 26, Balmertown, Ont.
Jessica Dubé, 24, St-Cyrille de Wendover, Que. / Sebastian Wolfe, 21, Terrebonne, Que.

Ladies
The top two finishers from the national championship will compete at the ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships, and Canada’s one entry for the world team will be named following their performances at that competition.

ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships, Colorado Springs, USA – February 6 – 12, 2012
Men
Patrick Chan, 21, Toronto, Ont.
Kevin Reynolds, 21, Coquitlam, B.C.
Jeremy Ten, 22, Vancouver, B.C.

Ice Dance
Tessa Virtue, 22, London, Ont. / Scott Moir, 24, Ilderton, Ont.
Kaitlyn Weaver, 22, Waterloo, Ont. – Houston, TX / Andrew Poje, 24, Waterloo, Ont.
Alexandra Paul, 20, Barrie, Ont. / Mitchell Islam, 21, Barrie, Ont.

Pair
Meagan Duhamel, 26, Lively, Ont. / Eric Radford, 26, Balmertown, Ont.
Jessica Dubé, 24, St-Cyrille de Wendover, Que. / Sebastian Wolfe, 21, Terrebonne, Que.
Paige Lawrence, 21, Kennedy, Sask. / Rudi Swiegers, 24, Kipling, Sask.

Ladies
Amélie Lacoste, 23, Delson, Que.
Cynthia Phaneuf, 24, Contrecoeur, Que.
Alexandra Najarro, 18, Richmond Hill, Ont.

Canadian Team - ISU Junior World Figure Skating Championships, Minsk, Belarus, February 27 – March 4, 2012
Men
Liam Firus, 19, North Vancouver, B.C.
Nam Nguyen, 13, Burnaby, B.C.

Ice Dance
Nicole Orford, 19, Burnaby, B.C. / Thomas Williams, 20, Okotoks, Alta.
Andréanne Poulin, 16, L’Île Bizard, Que. / Marc-André Servant, 20, Vaudreuil, Que.

Pair
Katherine Bobak, 17, Guelph, Ont. / Ian Beharry, 20, Guelph, Ont.
Margaret Purdy, 16, Strathroy, Ont. / Michael Marinaro, 19, Sarnia, Ont.
Hayleigh Bell, 15, Acton, Ont. / Alistair Sylvester, 17, Stratford, Ont.

Ladies
Katelyn Osmond, 16, Sherwood Park, Alta.


Aside from my comments regarding pairs and ladies, I'm really happy with the rest of the selections. As I said, thrilled with the decision to send P/I to 4CC, especially since they finished so close to R/H. Kudos to SC for not letting them fall even further behind by robbing them of valuable international exposure. I'm glad Najarro will be going as well.

As for junior worlds, the team is just perfect. The only thing that surprised me was the decision to send the novice pairs champs and not the 2nd or 3rd place junior teams. It will be interesting to see how Bell/Sylvester fare when their first junior competition ever will be junior worlds.
 

icellist

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
I too am unhappy M-T/M situation. IMO The best plan would have been to let the 4CC team be D/W, L/S, and M-T/M because Canada would get 3 spots for 4CC next year anyway. The 3 world berths is so much more important for Canada because they have 3 shining pairs. M-T/M were the national champions and are already recognized by international judges and only had a bad skate at nationals. The Phaneuf/Lacoste situation should have been pulled for them too; a skate off between D/W and M-T/M (and see if D/W place better or have comparable PCS to M-T/M). L/S are actually my favorite Canadian pair but did not do well enough on the GP to merit the Worlds spot either but do deserve 4CC from their nationals skate.
 

heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Thanks skatingfan04 for the info! 4CCs has definitely become an important competition, LOL! I am hoping that next year Skate Canada will have more athletes going to Nebelhorn, Finlandia or other junior/senior competitions in the fall to gain that international experience. I am hoping that everyone has great skates at 4CCs and Worlds. For pairs, I am a fan of Lawrence/Sweigers as well and I am hoping that they can continue to grow. For M-T/M, they should keep their chins high and hopefully take the time and look at the positives from the whole season and work from there and enjoy their skating!
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
I too am unhappy M-T/M situation. IMO The best plan would have been to let the 4CC team be D/W, L/S, and M-T/M because Canada would get 3 spots for 4CC next year anyway. The 3 world berths is so much more important for Canada because they have 3 shining pairs. M-T/M were the national champions and are already recognized by international judges and only had a bad skate at nationals. The Phaneuf/Lacoste situation should have been pulled for them too; a skate off between D/W and M-T/M (and see if D/W place better or have comparable PCS to M-T/M). L/S are actually my favorite Canadian pair but did not do well enough on the GP to merit the Worlds spot either but do deserve 4CC from their nationals skate.

I 100% agre with all of this. The goal should be to ensure maximum number of entries to worlds for next year, which means MT/M should be going to worlds this year. If there is any doubt, use 4CC as a skate-off for the 2, 3 and 4 teams. There is also a potential downside to putting D/W out there internationally too soon. I was very impressed with how well they have come along through the season. But in no way are they are ready for the world stage yet. And given that Dube is a former world medalist, it will not help them to show up internationally without enough goods to be competitive. The narrative is not right, and could actually harm them when they are ready for prime time.

MT/M had 1 really bad skate at the worst time. They have improved just a tremendous amount this season, seriously worked on their weaknesses, and had a great showing in the GP season. Saturday night was not their night. It happens once in awhile. That does not discount their current world ranking and all the good things they have done throughout the season. They are great people with great attitudes and winning spirits. They are huge role-models for the sport. I'm sure they will draw on all of that now, with the help of their coaches and hometown fans.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Pet peeve time again. Do-overs, partial credit, this one doesn't count, um OK best two out of three?

It's not my job to tell Skate Canada what to do (unlike USFS ;)) but -- y'all should send the best lady in Canada to worlds. You should have a competition to determine who the best lady in Canada is. No mulligans, no King's X. Go big or go home. :yes:

JMO :)
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Pet peeve time again. Do-overs, partial credit, this one doesn't count, um OK best two out of three?

It's not my job to tell Skate Canada what to do (unlike USFS ;)) but -- y'all should send the best lady in Canada to worlds. You should have a competition to determine who the best lady in Canada is. No mulligans, no King's X. Go big or go home. :yes:

JMO :)

Mathman, when we've had this discussion in the past, I've been a little more sanguine about it than you have. Generally, 9 times out of 10, the best do win Nationals/rank. I've understood the need to send the best "team" to Worlds/international events as generally and the feeling that there should be some way to counteract for an off competition. But there's something about the LaCoste/Phaneuf situation that bothers me - it feels mendacious.
 

callalily

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
I too am unhappy M-T/M situation. IMO The best plan would have been to let the 4CC team be D/W, L/S, and M-T/M because Canada would get 3 spots for 4CC next year anyway. The 3 world berths is so much more important for Canada because they have 3 shining pairs. M-T/M were the national champions and are already recognized by international judges and only had a bad skate at nationals. The Phaneuf/Lacoste situation should have been pulled for them too; a skate off between D/W and M-T/M (and see if D/W place better or have comparable PCS to M-T/M). L/S are actually my favorite Canadian pair but did not do well enough on the GP to merit the Worlds spot either but do deserve 4CC from their nationals skate.

Having listened to Duhamel/Radford being interviewed after their win, they made it clear what their goals are for the rest of the season - win the 4CC title, then aim for top 5 at Worlds. They do not plan to skip 4CC; they want to go up against the Chinese teams and if possible take the title. They'd also like to qualify for the WTT. SC will not deny D/R a spot at 4CC - D/R are their top pairs team no doubt, they just won nationals by 20 points, and SC wants to support their chances of future success.

So with D/R taking one 4CC spot, how can they send M-T/M for a skate-off with D/W? They'd have to deny a spot to L/S, who need the chance to post a good score to enhance their opportunities for GP's next year, and who beat M-T/M at Nationals. I feel sorry for M-T/M, but I don't see how SC can justify leaving any of the other teams off the 4CC roster.
 

callalily

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Pet peeve time again. Do-overs, partial credit, this one doesn't count, um OK best two out of three?

It's not my job to tell Skate Canada what to do (unlike USFS ;)) but -- y'all should send the best lady in Canada to worlds. You should have a competition to determine who the best lady in Canada is. No mulligans, no King's X. Go big or go home. :yes:

JMO :)

Historically SC has had a slightly different philosophy on this topic from USFS. Both philosophies are arguable (and regularly argued here :p) , but SC does officially take more than one competition into account, and are within their rights to make this choice.
 
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