Dornbush to replace Abbott at 4CC's

What if it is political? What if they are afraid for his safety in France given he is Iranian. The world insanity might frighten the people making decisions. I have shut myself off from international news as it is terrifying me. I am very aware of us domestic issues and involved, but Iran/Israel/middle east total situation just is terrible. What is the reason for picking number 13 over Armin, if it's not political? I'm beginning to think the 'hetero' thing has some substance. That sounds like the USFS I have seen over the years.

skateluvr said:

What if it is political? What if they are afraid for his safety in France given he is Iranian. The world insanity might frighten the people making decisions.

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Except Colorado has not been invaded by France and 4CC can't be held in Europe.

Lord knows, I can think of a number of quite satisfying totally wacko conspiracy theories, none of which has a scrap of truth about them Here's 5 quick movie plots. Anyone else like to suggest a few?

No doubt the real reason is more mundane, but it's just not obvious to me:

1. Ricky Dornbush, his family or Tammy Gambill are blackmailing an high level USFS official.
2. Ricky Dornbush has hacked into the USFS computer and placed himself on the 4CC's list.
3. Ricky Dornbush is a CIA agent. The US government needs a plausible reason for him to be in Colorado Springs the week of 4 Continents. The USFS has agreed to help. There is a crisis at the Air Force Academy for which Ricky's help is needed. He will be posing as a visitor to a sick cadet, in between skating events.
4. (previous, bows to skateluvr) Armin Mahbanoozedah is an Iranian spy, and must be prevented at all costs from being in Colorado Springs the week of 4 Continents.
5. Armin Mahbanoozadeh is so brilliant that he must not be allowed to waste his time figure skating. He must enter Dartmouth immediately so that he can save the world from destruction by the Triffids by working with the Brillian Professor Eisenzamboni there. Everything must be done to keep Armin from international competition where he will likely be abducted by Iranians to work on their nuclear bomb program instead.

dorispulaski said:

That's more or less the way it has always been.

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Do you mean that in the past they did ask skaters, in order of national ranking, whether they want to attend 4cc? This season, at least according to Jeremy Ten, Alissa Czisny was not asked to 4CC at all, just passed over.

Can we find out if the USFS actually has some sort of selection criteria that they tell skaters, but not the general public? Anybody knows anybody who might know?

Serious Business said:

Do you mean that in the past they did ask skaters, in order of national ranking, whether they want to attend 4cc? This season, at least according to Jeremy Ten, Alissa Czisny was not asked to 4CC at all, just passed over.

Can we find out if the USFS actually has some sort of selection criteria that they tell skaters, but not the general public? Anybody knows anybody who might know?

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http://www.usfsa.org/Content/201011CombinedRoA.pdf

69. APPROVED – International Committee
Amend rule ICR 6.04 (B) (page 64, Rulebook) to update the selections criteria for the Four Continents Championships
as follows:
B. Four Continents Championships:
The team [shall] will be selected from those athletes who are ISU senior age eligible. [Consideration shall be given the
current U.S. champion in each discipline.] Selection to the U.S. Four Continents Team [shall] will be based upon the results
of the two most recent U.S. Figure Skating Championships, the most recent World Championship, the most recent
Four Continents Championship and all other international events; however, the International Committee may consider
extenuating circumstances. Exceptions to the age-eligibility rules which are granted by the ISU will always be allowed.
Implementation date: September 1, 2011

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Items in brackets were struck.

Looking at the criteria, Richard's selection as first alternate for 4CCs makes much more sense. Outside of this year's US Nationals in the SP, has Armin beaten Richard at any other competition in the last two seasons? Not at the most recent Skate America, or last year's US Nationals. Richard was the highest ranking US man at 2011 Worlds and the 2011 US silver medalist. Armin was the lowest-ranking man at the 2011 4CCs; a spot which could've justifiably gone to Richard but likely wasn't offered.

Blades of Passion said:

Heterosexual and moderately attractive in the typical sense = USFSA loves you more than everyone else.

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Thanks I needed to giggle a bit!

jaylee said:

Looking at the criteria, Richard's selection as first alternate for 4CCs makes much more sense. Outside of this year's US Nationals in the SP, has Armin beaten Richard at any other competition in the last two seasons? Not at the most recent Skate America, or last year's US Nationals. Richard was the highest ranking US man at 2011 Worlds and the 2011 US silver medalist. Armin was the lowest-ranking man at the 2011 4CCs; a spot which could've justifiably gone to Richard but likely wasn't offered.

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Thanks for the info and your detective work! This does explain a lot. So the USFS made a decision to change the selection process for 4CC that just kicked in this season. They're putting a much firmer emphasis (so it seems) on past results rather than the current nationals. Not even the champion gets any leeway. I wonder if this criteria will be applied to world team selection in the future, too.

Serious Business said:

For 4CC, the USFS should just ask the top #(depending on spots qualified) of skaters from nationals in order of their finish whether they want to go or not.

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Anything else, they are nothing but scoundrels and blackguards and i am not going to send them any more money.

And by the way, if the question is who is the most handsome...nothing against Dornbush, but

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1133012003/IMG_3222.jpg

gmyers said:

Maybe it is because Mahbanoozadeh is Iranian

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Or maybe it's because Dornbush won the free skate last year, also the US Nat.'s silver medal, plus did ok at Worlds and this year he placed 4th and 6th in the Grand Prix comps. Plus I think USFSA likes the guy?

Blades of Passion said:

Heterosexual and moderately attractive in the typical sense = USFSA loves you more than everyone else.

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I think Richard Dornbush is so cute. He has a great smile, nice eyes too, great expression, etc.

Mathman said:

And by the way, if the question is who is the most handsome...nothing against Dornbush, but

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1133012003/IMG_3222.jpg

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Armin looked especially handsome during the NBC broadcast of the USFS gala earlier today.

That said, while I have zero doubts that the management in FS can be homophobic/racist (it's one big reason there have been no openly gay skaters competing in the Olympics-eligible circuit since Rudy Galindo), I don't think this one Dornbush selection is based on bigotry. It seems entirely explained by the USFS' published criteria (h/t to jaylee's post above) and Dornbush's vastly superior international results.

I still don't like that selection, though. I just don't think 4CC deserves this level of gamesmanship. Well, that and I vastly prefer Armin's skating.

Oh, sorry wallylutz, my brain was thinking worlds in Nice, I don't think i have even seen a 4CC in years, it's not on my radar, ooops, big oops, I plead exhaustion and the initial racist charges. It is always nice when someone points out your brain is switched off. Gee, thanks.

As for the other theory, i absolutely believe the USFSA is in a losing battle finding male single skaters who 1)are hetero or 2) look hetero. USFSA had a tough time trying to contain Weir's outrgeousness. People are getting more accepting of all this as gay marriage becomes legal, and Johnny has a huge fan base in the sport despite a lot of outrageous behavior that still does not play well in Peoria. The ice princess should be feminine, not the prince according to the unspoken rule. Times are changing, but there is no way to deny that skating is dissed in many circles as a sport for men who like sequins. Armin is a much better skater , I think, than Ricky, and despite a couple really good skates, i don't think he is all that special. Adam Rippon is the guy I think is special. His skating reminds me of Johnny Weir's except even better. While I find his skating beautiful and I think he will be the best, I am glad he focuses us on the skating, not making his orientation a side issue. I may be old fashioned, but I think my tolerance level for awful costumes and over the top mannerisms is mainstream. Prickly subject, but it remains an issue for men in the sport.

I wonder where Evan is and why the USFSA has not given him what he wants? The matinee idol good looks, and masculine manner who won the gold is not on the scene-he is not really even doing Disson shows is he? I asked in another thread, where is Evan this season and why IS he been so absent from competing AND showskating? He has two years left to his reign before maybe Patrick takes the crown. He does not seem concerned about making hay while he can.

The fact that Johnny just married a man is no big deal in a sport with so many gay skaters, coaches, choreographers, but it does not sell well with everyone. My nonskating fan friends with religious background were quite turned off, and even SOI would not hire him. So it is an issue still.

Armin is definitely a better skater and it seems logical to use nationals placements were I picking. I personally do not find Ricky the scion of hetero masculinity, but it is obvious that Evan was promoted for more than just his skating skills. I think Jeremy and Adam when on are better all around skaters, but Evan has the look, the height. What ever his orientation is, it is not obvious. They do want more masculine as an image, and years of watching the very slow "out" process, and what is "allowed" makes their attitude very easy to assess. I never thought I'd see Ryan B a national champion. I hated his skating last year. They loved this guy for what, trying? Or is there more about his look and off ice persona they were rewarding?

While race does not matter anymore, the need to sell this sport as a "man's " sport is a factor in who seems to get promoted. They had room for Rudy, as he was special and inspirational but he fought long to be accepted for his presentation/costumes. JWeir was a great skater in his day, but it is an issue and I think it will remain an issue. Looks, image, package-very important in this sport, and always will be. The popularity/survival of the sport outside of the olympics has many factors, and this may be one, albeit a minor one in this day and age. How important is this thing, you long time observers, in individual success at the National mens level? I guess what I accept from the competitive ranks re costume, makeup etc is different than show skating, too. So I am mainly addressing my point to eligible male skaters, along with my query (no pun intended) as to what is the situation in 2012 re acceptance levels?

But then post #49 from stevlin sums up Dornbush's overall competitive record, and that might be exactly their thinking. (However, doris' theories are way more fun, LOL!)

Serious Business said:

I just don't think 4CC deserves this level of gamesmanship.

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Nor does any figure skating competition. "Gamesmanship" just puffs up the ego of the gamers, at the expense of fairness to the skaters.

Gee, just because somebody proposed a gay, or race, or handsomeness agenda doesn't make it a true issue or something to build upon.

So, SF you don't think hetero presentation in males in FS matters at all to the USFSA?

skateluvr said:

So, SF you don't think hetero presentation in males in FS matters at all to the USFSA?

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I have no idea. But on the subject of this thread, there is no basis to jump to such conclusion and reaction.

As someone who was initially upset about the decision, it actually does make sense under their published criteria. Having said that, I still think if Armin was named John Smith, had blond hair, and was maybe a bit more masculine he would have been first alternate. The USFSA has always been adamant about performing well at Nationals to get international assignments so this decision seems inconsistent with that long-standing practice.

SkateFiguring said:

I have no idea. But on the subject of this thread, there is no basis to jump to such conclusion and reaction.

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I agree on that last part. We have no evidence that bigotry informed this rather unusual decision, and we did get a document the USFS published ahead of time on how the 4CC selection process has changed. Which is not to say that I don't think the USFS is incapable of bigotry (or at least pandering to it).

I think they're biased against Alaska... Keegan should go.

Gee, don't you think that heterosexual has become rare species and needs protection in men's skating?!

...I have no idea of one way or another. Reading these multi-page lively conspiracy theories and racism and homophobia charges on USFSA is so intertaining! I thought this board doesn't allow baseless speculations. Maybe I didn't truly understand the rules?