LADIES LONG PROGRAM Thread | Page 36 | Golden Skate

LADIES LONG PROGRAM Thread

wonderlen3000

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
I'd just like to point out that the judging panel for the Ladies was: KOR TPE CHN JPN MEX USA CAN AUS. Four Asian judges vs one US judge. Sorry, I don't see any politics in this judging, it was all about the SKATING. Ashley was clean and dynamic, while Mao was slow and cautious, did a 3a<, had a hand down on the lutz, and doubled the salchow.

The whole competition is inflated as usual and the tech caller is not very strict. There are no 'e' calls on Flip or Lutz, a lot of jumps that are on border line get away with no < for all the skaters. But I think in the end Ashley is rightful winner. I think the podium placement is right and good for all skaters. Mao knows she needs to work hard on her jumps and hopefully everything will be according to the plan. Ashley will have more comfident heading to world where she will face off again with Mao, Kostner and Akiko. I think all four will be podium contender.
 

ayayukiituka

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
I'd just like to point out that the judging panel for the Ladies was: KOR TPE CHN JPN MEX USA CAN AUS. Four Asian judges vs one US judge. Sorry, I don't see any politics in this judging, it was all about the SKATING. Ashley was clean and dynamic, while Mao was slow and cautious, did a 3a<, had a hand down on the lutz, and doubled the salchow.
The nationals of judging panel is not so related to the scores.For example,KOR is ALWAYS hates Japanese skaters and gives other skaters huge one,USA gives their national skaters too much, CAN is the same as USA. Others are quite fair I think from my collection/examination for a long time.
The placement was right as everyone posts.What I can't agree is the scores both of Ashely and Mao got. Ashley's FS was maybe her best in her career besides it's a competition in her country yet 128+ for no second triple or signature elements like Alissa's spins or Carolina's skating skill.
Anyways,I can't find Ashley's interviews,Mao has quite good feeling on 3A and programs and the mistakes she had made was because she focus on 3A too much. Mr.Sato was talking to her with her performance there until 4a.m. So it seems her preparation for WC will be going well.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Wagner skated her best LP program ever. While you can't compare across events, her TES killed Kostner's at Euros because she had 2 flips, 2 loops and a Lutz whereas Kostner had NO Lutz and repeated easier triples and the 2A (and struggled with some landings). Kostner's PCS was still higher at Euros than Wagner's at 4CC, and Wagner skated with her best speed, flow, and command ever at 4CC (and that includes US Nationals). Her PCS went up to reflect that.
Wagner's TES was not outrageous for what she did. All her jumps were fully rotated. Her jumping elements averaged less than +1 GOE each in her FS; it's not like she was getting +2 and +3 across the board on her jumps like Yuna Kim. Her spins were all level 4 and step sequence was level 3 and were all + GOEs but not outrageously so (Czisny should get +3's for her best spins, Wagner got mostly +1s and +2s for her best spins and they satisfied the proper bullets to deserve those). Her spiral sequence got +3 GOE but it certainly satisfied the bullets for it.

Wagner's BV was 56 and with some positive on each element, she got a 66.61 TES. I just don't see where you can say it was overscored, except maybe on the 3Lz (which she only got +0.8 on, but you could argue it should have gotten an "e" and should have gotten a negative GOE, but then you'd have to say Asada's and Zhang's were also "e" and their negative GOE should have increased on theirs). Please walk me through her protocol and point out WHERE it is overscored (other than the Lz), otherwise, just because she beat your favorite doesn't mean she was overscored.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
I thought the scoring was particularly fair this event. Ashley was the clear winner IMO, with Mao as a close 2nd.

Ashley had the skate of her life! She was clean on all of her elements, her spins were good, her spiral was great, difficult transitions...she earned that score, definitely. Mao's skate was good by her standards but not good enough in the wake of Ashley's flawless skate. Both ladies had lovely detailed programs and solid elements, but Mao left the door open with her <3a, 2s and the hand down on her 3lz. Had she not made two of those mistakes, she would have won.

Ashley outskated her; plain and simple.

Caroline had a kick@$$ skate and I'm so proud of her for coming in 3rd here! Well deserved. I'm proud of Kanako too, although at the end of that performance I thought she might pass out. She looked so winded, and she wasn't the only one. A number of the girls looked like they were ready to keel over at the end of those 4 mins.
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Wagner got MUCH higher PCS at 4CC than she got at her GP events:

61.73 7.61 7.46 7.93 7.71 7.86 Wagner FS, 4CC
55.32 7.04 6.61 7.04 7.00 6.89 Wagner FS, NHK
55.48 7.04 6.32 7.32 6.82 7.18 Wagner FS, Skate Canada

I'm not sure she'll get scores as high at Worlds, even with a similar performance. And I doubt the tech team at Worlds will be as lenient as the 4CC team when it comes to edge calls.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
I explained in this thread or another Wagner thread how her PCS could have gone up 6 points in three months:
Mills changed some of the choreography
Mills added more transitions

Wagner skated MUCH better - she was totally clean - and with more speed, control and COMMAND. She COMMANDED the ice and it increased her PCS scores. IF you watch her LP from NHK and her LP from 4CC, it was like watching two different skaters. Being National Champion agrees with Wagner's psyche and she's clearly settling in with John Nicks.

IF she skates at Worlds with similar speed, control, and COMMAND it will be hard to deny her similar scores. Even if she gets an "e" call on the Lz, and everything else is skated similarly (and we can assume she wants to get the 3T on the combo) she will put up a big TES score. As I stated, her GOEs weren't outrageous for what she did and how she did them. If she skates like that...
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
^^You have to remember, coming into this season Ashley wasn't one of the well-known US ladies. She's been around for a while and medaled more than most, but she never had any kind of break-out appeal about her. She flew just under the radar and was always being overshadowed by Mirai, Rachael or Alissa.

You can see the difference the US title makes when you compare her 4CC scores to her GP events. On top of the fact that she was nearly flawless through both programs, she skated with a lot more confidence and attack at 4CC and the judges had to reward that. Having that title always gives you a slight edge, but it's up to the skater to capitalize on it. Ashley skated like a national champ and was rewarded the way a champion should be. I think this win will help her in Nice; if she can put together two skates there like she did here, I wouldn't be surprised if those scores were the same.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
I think Ashley's PCS were too low in her first GP. They actually jumped an average of ~.5 per category from the SP to the LP, which is unusual, then stayed there for the next event. So she's been on the rise AND her performances continue to improve.

I hope this sparks Alissa to skate even better, too.
 

SXTN

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Ashley was just better than Mao. Mao's first flip was borderline too.

At Worlds we have easy&clean jumps/very high artistry (Kostner) against difficult&clean jumps/high artistry (Wagner) against very difficult& < jumps/very high artistry (Asada). Interesting.
 

verte76

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Ashley won the free skate and some nice person sent me a video on You Tube!

It was at 3 AM in the morning? Yikes! No wonder I missed it!

That would be great if Ashley could win and get three spots for the U.S. at Worlds!:)
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Wagner's 4CC performance was encouraging but I'm still not ready to get my hopes up for 3 spots...already explained why in other threads.

Only hope: that this isn't her peak.

Even if Wagner skates to potential at worlds, there is still Czisny who has to remain competent in this field and rank in the top 6 or 7. Perhaps watching Wagner skate lights out at the 4CC might ignite something in her, who knows.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
My hope is that Ashley's streak continues through worlds (and beyond) and that we at the very least keep our two spots...
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Wagner got MUCH higher PCS at 4CC than she got at her GP events:

61.73 7.61 7.46 7.93 7.71 7.86 Wagner FS, 4CC
55.32 7.04 6.61 7.04 7.00 6.89 Wagner FS, NHK
55.48 7.04 6.32 7.32 6.82 7.18 Wagner FS, Skate Canada

I'm not sure she'll get scores as high at Worlds, even with a similar performance. And I doubt the tech team at Worlds will be as lenient as the 4CC team when it comes to edge calls.

To be expected. There is a HUGE difference between being the new U.S Champion and the U.S #6, regardless how you skate. If she skates the same way at Worlds, her PCS will likely be the same or higher. She is no longer a third tier American.
 
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