Are we witnessing the rebirth of American ladies figure skating?

You have to hand it to Ashley Wagner, national champion and 4CC title in the space of a month and she has done it with some very high calibre skating. The comeback of Caroline Zhang is alo very impressive and Agnes Zawadzki has been doing a lot better as well. So what are we to make of this? Is this the start of a new and better era for American ladies figure skating? A rebirth? You would have to say that things are looking a lot better than they were only a couple of months ago. Wagner is now a factor on the world stage and Zhang is on the up. Alissa Czisny of course remains a major player, but on the debit side Flatt and Nagasu seem to be in decline. However, you cannot write Nagasu off yet.

But looking at matters a little deeper, whilst winning 4CC is a major accomplishment, who exactly did the Americans beat beyond a mis-firing Mao Asada who is still on the comeback trail after a major loss of form and who has just lost her mother. Is there a weight issue as well? Seems to still be flutzing her lutz? Will she or wont she sort out her Axel and her triple x triple. A lot left to sort out there it would seem. Thus, what else besides a mis-firing Mao did the Americans beat at the 4CC? The answer to that question is wherein lies the problem in terms of making out a case for an American rebirth. Kanako Murakami finished 4th and she has been having problems herself this season. Kexin Zhang who finished 5th is a good up and coming skater, but not yet a world beater. Then we had 2 woefully out of form Canadians. All in all, therefore, it would appear as though one of the Americans was always likely to win the 4CC anyway if Mao had had an off day, which she ultimately did. This may well be the start of a new era for American ladies figure skating, but I think the jury is still out as to whether it does mark the start of a new era of dominance. In terms of the 4CC, the only real competition was a mis-firing Mao and given the problems she had entering the competition, it does not surprise me that Mao had an off day.

Still, I think this is the start of something for the Americans. I think Czisny or Wagner may well medal at the WC and they should be capable of getting the 3 spots for next years WC's back as the field at this years WC'S is not as strong as previous years. Longer term and the Olympics, I think we're witnessing a change of the guard with a new generation emerging. I think therefore the next Olympic champion will be somebody who will not be competing at this years WC's.

Still, the only top Asian lady who wasn't at Four Continents was Suzuki. Of the Europeans, only Kostner is clearly favored over the Americans.

So we might say that the international ladies field is not as strong as in some years, but right now the U.S. ladies have as good a chance as anyone.

too early to tell
but one thing is almost certain, they may get back the 3 placements for us girls for worlds

One word: YES!

Mathman said:

Still, the only top Asian lady who wasn't at Four Continents was Suzuki. Of the Europeans, only Kostner is clearly favored over the Americans.

So we might say that the international ladies field is not as strong as in some years, but right now the U.S. ladies have as good a chance as anyone.

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Very true. Ladies is at a low ebb at the moment and the Americans do have as good a chance as anybody. However, theres is a strong new generation coming through through from all areas of the globe. Will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

No, I don't think this is the rebirth of American ladies because the American ladies never ended. It was only that skaters from other countries stepped up, and the field plagued by injury, age restriction, and retirement have the American ladies shown again. I always saw great things by Mirai, Alissa, Caroline, and Ashley. I just don't understand why USFSA relied so heavily on Flatt for a few years before tibiagate. The European ladies only have one superstar now: Carolina Kostner. Other potential European greats retired/injured: Sarah Meier and Laura Lepisto. Elene Gedevanishvili and Kiira Korpi are inconsistent. The Russian ladies always challenge but have not landed on the championship podiums (not counting GPF) since 2007, just like Americans after Kimmie Meissner (but worse because we actually medalled sometimes, never won until Wagner). Only age restriction is keeping the Russian wunders at bay, which I think is totally justified. The 4CC is dominated by Canada, USA, and Japan, but in the ladies field, Canadian ladies are well out of top ten (but still rooting for Lacoste to kick a$$ and shove it in SC). So really the only posible podiums for worlds are Kostner, Japanese ladies, American ladies, or a woundrous skate by a Euro lady. Just saying, American ladies were never far off

Comebacks seem to be the pattern of US ladies these days. After Wagner, Zhang, and Czisny,let me guess--Mirai will stage her own comeback next season?

This "rebirth" is due in part to the recovery of some top US ladies but also to a talent vacuum from above and below; namely, young rising talent are not yet age-eligible for senior Worlds while past champions are on break/retired (Kim, Ando, Rochette) or still recovering (Asada). This is the perfect year to grab a spot on the Worlds podium. It remains to be seen whether in 2013 and beyond they can withstand the coming onslaught.

Yes, the world's ladies are all at a bit of a low ebb right now, but the fact is that even with that in our favor, the Americans at 4CC could also have fallen all over the place and missed their jumps, and it wouldn't have done them any good that Canada and Japan also faltered. As it is, the Americans did very well, and that bodes well for Worlds. Are they light years ahead of everyone else, the way skaters like Michelle, Irina Slutskaya, YuNa, and generally Mao were in recent years? No. But they're contenders. This is already an improvement. I don't look forward with certainty, but I do have hope.

Krislite said:

Comebacks seem to be the pattern of US ladies these days. After Wagner, Zhang, and Czisny,let me guess--Mirai will stage her own comeback next season?

This "rebirth" is due in part to the recovery of some top US ladies but also to a talent vacuum from above and below; namely, young rising talent are not yet age-eligible for senior Worlds while past champions are on break/retired (Kim, Ando, Rochette) or still recovering (Asada). This is the perfect year to grab a spot on the Worlds podium. It remains to be seen whether in 2013 and beyond they can withstand the coming onslaught.

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exactly the ladies field is so weak/unpredictable right now and its the perfect opportunity to get into the limelight and step it up
those who were previously in the middle of the pack

this imo, is the perfect time the US will get 3 spots back at Worlds ladies
and I believe they will get t

Wagner or Czisny will need to manage atleast a bronze at Worlds, and both will need to finish in the top 7 (in addition to regaining 3 spots which automatically happens with the latter anyway) for this to be true.

Wagner would not beat Mao if this competiton was held some place else.

I think the US has a good chance to get back the 3 ladies spots this season, for Worlds 2013. But it's going to be tough to keep those 3 spots going forward, with the young Russians reaching senior eligibility.

chuckm said:

I think the US has a good chance to get back the 3 ladies spots this season, for Worlds 2013. But it's going to be tough to keep those 3 spots going forward, with the young Russians reaching senior eligibility.

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I'm not so optimistic. Alissa's jumps are still scary. It wouldn't surpirse me if she drops out of top 10.

I think so, and yes - that's in part due to a broader field and attrition at the top.

skateflower said:

I'm not so optimistic. Alissa's jumps are still scary. It wouldn't surpirse me if she drops out of top 10.

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Meh I honestly doubt that. She gets decent scores even with one fall or some flaws in her jumps. She has enough international credibility to boost her up. I think she would have to have a major meltdown for her to place out of the top 10 and I doubt she will break down that badly.

skateflower said:

I'm not so optimistic. Alissa's jumps are still scary. It wouldn't surpirse me if she drops out of top 10.

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Me neither. Her skating has actually been regressing this season since the first competition. She just looked shakier and shakier every competition, retreating into her old timid way with her jumps. She was lucky the judges let her get away with second place at National's. But now what will happen at World's? I really hope that seh will be able to hold it together. I think if she goes for safe and puts out relatively clean 5-triple LP and 2-triple SP, then she and Wagner will bring 3 spots home. But I bet she will go for a challenge and try out the 3Z-3T (she was seen practicing this in Colorado Springs this week) in the SP and 2A-3T in the FS, and then maybe psych herself out and end up bombing. I really hope she proves me wrong!

herro said:

Meh I honestly doubt that. She gets decent scores even with one fall or some flaws in her jumps. She has enough international credibility to boost her up. I think she would have to have a major meltdown for her to place out of the top 10 and I doubt she will break down that badly.

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I am talking about major meltdown just as Kostner did a few years ago. What if she lands only 2 or 3 triples? What if she underrotates most of her triples?

skateflower said:

Wagner would not beat Mao if this competiton was held some place else.

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I disagree with this. If Mao hadn't made so many mistakes (2S, < 3A, 2 footed 3Lo, 3Lz messy), she would have won.

While you may not like her, Wagner won fair and square at 4CC and if you have not seen the videos I suggest you go watch them. There was a difference here in Ashley Wagner even since Nationals (in TWO weeks' time). She took the ice for both her SP and LP like she OWNED it. There was a fire in her eyes when she took her opening position and a controlled determination and confidence about her skating that has never existed before. The look reminded me of many of the former American champions (Kwan, Harding, Bobek, Thomas all had that) who KNEW they were going to nail the program and wanted you to WATCH them do it. Clearly, being US Champion sits well with Wagner.

I was also impressed by how undaunted Ashley was in warmup. Right when she came back to the boards after the first few trips around the rink, she got her water and she and Nicks had an exchange in which he smiled really big and happily and she was laughing good humoredly too. I was thinking, wow, they are relaxed. Not uncaring but just easy and ready for action. That impressed me as much as her look when she skated to her opening pose. Prepared and enjoying what you are about to do. Always thought Sarah Hughes was like that, unintimidated and steady in the moment and ready to like what she was doing and where was rather than being scared to be there, facing competition.

rallycairn said:

I was also impressed by how undaunted Ashley was in warmup. Right when she came back to the boards after the first few trips around the rink, she got her water and she and Nicks had an exchange in which he smiled really big and happily and she was laughing good humoredly too. I was thinking, wow, they are relaxed. Not uncaring but just easy and ready for action. That impressed me as much as her look when she skated to her opening pose. Prepared and enjoying what you are about to do. Always thought Sarah Hughes was like that, unintimidated and steady in the moment and ready to like what she was doing and where was rather than being scared to be there, facing competition.

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Yes, it is quite interesting to see the skaters at the boards before their programs.You can almost figure out how their programs are going to turn out!
I remember at Torino worlds, Nagasu looked very tense and almost scared to leave Frank C at the boards...but then at 4CC 2011, she never hesitated and just went out there and did a fantastic program!
Other skaters that looked almost as they got stucked by the boards were/are Sasha, Korpi and Phaneuf...On the other hand, Ando spent hours at the boards with Morozov but that seemed to work out perfectly fine for her so I guess there are no rules?

Kwan and Yuna always came accross as skaters that just wanted to go out there and not to spend half a day with any pep talk