International Challenge Cup - The Hague, Mar 8-11 | Page 9 | Golden Skate

International Challenge Cup - The Hague, Mar 8-11

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Kostner's first flip is perfect!!! Best flip in a long time. Speed going in, flow coming out, height. I rather see this program. Her pcs seem right.
 

Tanja90

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Kostner doing two flips in the LP is a good thing. Her SP jump content was sub-junior. 3T-2T, 3Loop, as the main triples is beneath a world champion frontrunner! It is good to see two flips. Reaching for a flip as your hardest jump is pre-90's and very 80's. "Will she go for the flip?" is not something good. I would like to see a lutz. But if there are two flips that's a little better. I am not going to be over the moon about her SP ever. Even if she was successful with a 3T-3T it's silll unsettling. Kim Yu-Na had lutz and flip and Mao can do a 3A. There are skaters who don't do all triples and that's fine. I am not an all triple person. My opinon is that 3lz-3T or 3A to replace something you don't have is going far enough in one direction that you can leave out other jumps. Kostner with her 2 triple flips is showing prgress and some desire to do jumps but it's not like an impressive 3-3 or a 3A or doing flip and lutz.

Why it is unsettling going for a 3t3t in the short? it's always a 3-3, with the easiest jumps but with a higher value and more difficult even if it's with toes! Yuna kim had the 3lz3t but couldn't do the loop...mao had the axel but now it's more a miss than a hit and she has no lutz and tend to have her jumps downgraded. so what?..every skater works with what they have! I'm happy that carolina is not going for the lutz sice it gave her so much problems! She has two flips now and 2a3t! she cannot do 3f3t in the long without avoiding the 3toe after the axel because it would mean repeating 3 jumps and since her 2a3t is more secure than 3f3t she's going for it!
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
RESULT - LADIES FREE SKATE

1. Carolina KOSTNER (ITA) - 197.73 (FS = 132.84 (TES: 61.90, PCS: 70.94))
2. Valentina MARCHEI (ITA) - 171.00 (FS = 113.45 (TES: 52.45, PCS: 62.00, DED: 1.00))
3. Alissa CZISNY (USA) - 152.74 (FS = 92.92 (TES: 34.52, PCS: 60.40, DED: 2.00))
4. Viktoria HELGESSON (SWE)- 142.47 (FS = 96.84 (TES: 45.58, PCS: 52.26, DED: 1.00))
5. Kerstin FRANK (AUT) - 137.28 (FS = 89.62 (TES: 43.62, PCS: 46.00))
6. Lena MARROCCO (FRA) - 133.85 (FS = 86.09 (TES: 43.75, PCS: 43.34, DED: 1.00))
7. Kana MURAMOTO (JPN) - 130.63 (FS = 93.47 (TES: 47.33, PCS: 46.14))
8. Romy BÜHLER (SUI) -128.42 (FS = 84.58 (TES: 40.45, PCS: 44.13))
9. Haruna SUZUKI (JPN) - 128.24 (FS = 81.80 (TES: 36.80, PCS: 46.00, DED: 1.00))
10. Fleur MAXWELL (LUX) - 125.65 (FS = 80.51 (TES: 36.64, PCS: 43.87))
11. Myriam LEUENBERGER (SUI) - 122.41 (FS = 74.10 (TES: 32.56, PCS: 42.54, DED: 1.00))
12. Cecillia TÖRN (FIN) - 118.54 (FS = 75.62 (TES: 32.02, PCS: 43.60))
13. Belinda SCHÖNBERGER (AUT) - 118.07 (FS = 80.35 (TES: 41.95, PCS: 38.40))
14. Anne Line GJERSEM (NOR) - 116.54 (FS = 74.48 (TES: 38.87 , PCS: 35.61))
15. Henriikka HIETANIEMI (FIN) - 115.13 (FS = 75.06 (TES: 40.26 , PCS: 34.80))
16. Manouk GIJSMAN (NED) - 113.15 (FS = 67.84 (TES: 30.57, PCS: 38.27, DED: 1.00))
17. Isabel DRESCHER (GER) - 109.35 (FS = 72.37 (TES: 38.10, PCS: 34.27))
18. Jennifer URBAN (GER) - 104.58 (FS = 70.94 (TES: 35.81, PCS: 36.13, DED: 1.00))
19. Rosaliina KUPARINEN (FIN) - 103.15 (FS = 64.25 (TES: 29.71, PCS: 36.54, DED: 2.00))
20. Ami PAREKH (IND) - 98.64 (FS = 69.24 (TES: 36.37, PCS: 33.87, DED: 1.00))
21. Eva LIM (NED) - 97.99 (FS = 62.70 (TES: 29.42, PCS: 34.28, DED: 1.00))
22. Dasa GRM (SLO) - 96.96 (FS = 66.77(TES: 35.37, PCS: 32.40, DED: 1.00))
23. Sandy HOFFMANN (GER) - 96.89 (FS = 64.42 (TES: 32.69, PCS: 33.73, DED: 2.00))
24. Michelle COUWENBERG (NED) - 95.05 (FS = 64.22 (TES: 29.55, PCS: 36.67, DED: 2.00))

Here are the protocols
 

amc987

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
I am worried about our spots for Worlds now. What is going on with Alissa? I would just chalk it up to a terrible day, but she seems to have been getting worse and worse as the season has progressed. This must have been worse than her performance at the GPF when she was clearly nursing an injury. I really hope she'll be able to pull it together and skate her best at Worlds. Goodness knows she's a talented enough skater. It would be great to see her up on the podium, but I don't know if that's even possible the way she's going...

On the other hand, Kostner looks the best she's looked all season. Except for the axel and 2 sloppy spins at the end, she was wonderful. She has lots of transitions, detailed choreography, and really seemed to feel her music. Well done! I bet she will win at Worlds if she skates like this. Now if she could only add the lutz back in...
 
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mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Abbott's TES is abysmal but his PCS are saving him, but the problem this really speaks to is skaters getting held up at Nationals.

Did you even SEE Abbott's skate at Nationals? He was phenomenal - not held up in the slightest. If you haven't, it's on Universal Sports' youtube page.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Did you even SEE Abbott's skate at Nationals? He was phenomenal - not held up in the slightest. If you haven't, it's on Universal Sports' youtube page.

Abbott was amazing at nationals. I was talking about Rippon. And Czisny. THEY got held up at nationals. Jeremy earned his victory, idk if his scores should have been that high, but when you skate clean, it's okay for the judges to get excited and hand out huge marks. Zhang should have been 2nd IMO and Miner should be going to Worlds instead of Rippon. The disparity in PCS between Rippon and Miner at nationals speaks to the issue of US nationals because internationally they get the same PCS.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
No kidding, there was no one else who even came close to winning over Jeremy.

Wasn't talking about Jeremy, that's why I don't think he should be replaced. Even if his score at nationals was inflated, internationally his PCS are miles better than any of the other US men. I was talking about Alissa and Adam and how I don't think their 5 point cushions in PCS over Caroline and Ross were justified, especially because Ross and Caroline performed skates that were technically cleaner. I'm sick of the USFS's love affair with Czisny and Rippon and their weak jumps. Maybe they will adjust their views after Worlds this season if things go as I fear they might...
 
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Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
I should probably go to sleep, and sorry of this has a load of typos but; short report from The Hague!

Men: Kim Lucine was the biggest crowd-pleaser hands down. It was brilliant to watch someone have the guts to point his backside at the jury and scratch it. His 'Jungle Book' is just really epic. I'm glad Brian had such a strong performance: there was a confidence there that I haven't seen in him in a while! Not a great skate for Jeremy, but not a disaster either. Jorik is such a promising talent, I'm thrilled about that.

Ladies: Carolina had a lovely, polished, mature performance; though probably substantially overscored (but I admit I'm biased because I rather liked the idea of Ashley holding the SB in the LP before :p). I'm happy for Valentina, I think I didn't give her performance the attention it deserved, because I was still trying to process Kostner's score; but good for her to bring something so solid! Alissa.. yeah ouch. She took a while to get up from her second fall (I mean for a fraction of a second it seemed as if she was considering giving up - which probably wasn't what went on her mind but maybe she really hurt herself in that fall). I took some video footage of the warm-up, you can see she's struggling, especially trying to get the 2A-2T (which she managed perfectly in the last minute of the warm-up). I was prepared for some errors, but still... that was a little alarming :s I honestly feared she'd lost her medal! I hope Jason and Yuka know what to do. She still has such a lovely smile! And she signed my photograph ;-)

All in all I definitely had a good time! Brian and Carolina are great veteran winners with lovely solid performances that even an audience of people that probably didn't know much about figure skating could really appreciate. The atmosphere in general was pretty relaxed and as a fan/spectator this was a good trial run for worlds :) Next time I'll have a Belgian flag and Belgian chocolates with me! Can't wait!
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Wasn't talking about Jeremy, that's why I don't think he should be replaced. Even if his score at nationals was inflated, internationally his PCS are miles better than any of the other US men. I was talking about Alissa and Adam and how I don't think their 5 point cushions in PCS over Caroline and Ross were justified, especially because Ross and Caroline performed skates that were technically cleaner. I'm sick of the USFS's love affair with Czisny and Rippon and their weak jumps. Maybe they will adjust their views after Worlds this season if things go as I fear they might...

If Czisny bombs Worlds she is finished. With Wagner, Gold, Zhang, Agnes, possibly Nagasu and Gao, they have ample enough options to not need an aging headcase with weak jumps. She found comebacks easy in the past since the U.S women were so weak but that is changing. Worlds is a huge event for her.

Rippon will be in big trouble if he fails at Worlds too. Out of Abbott, Miner, Dornbush, and possibly Lysacek, they also have many other options to go to.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Thanks for the first-hand reports, Trewyn. :thumbsup:

(Poor Alissa. :cry: )

Short and to the point.....I like that. By the way, did they forget to open the doors for the fans?
There are more people at a 7am Four conts dance practice than there were at this rink.....
Anyone who can explain to me how to get on Alissa's tweet list? I am computer challanged.....
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Wasn't talking about Jeremy, that's why I don't think he should be replaced. Even if his score at nationals was inflated, internationally his PCS are miles better than any of the other US men. I was talking about Alissa and Adam and how I don't think their 5 point cushions in PCS over Caroline and Ross were justified, especially because Ross and Caroline performed skates that were technically cleaner. I'm sick of the USFS's love affair with Czisny and Rippon and their weak jumps. Maybe they will adjust their views after Worlds this season if things go as I fear they might...
That wasn't how it was written - you mentioned Abbott and then you mentioned held up and didn't explain you were referring to the other 2...For the men, the only one who stood a realistic chance of beating Rippon was Miner, but he had too many mistakes at Nationals.Rippon wasn't great, but he skated better than the alternatives.

As for Alissa,it's not like Zhang was THAT awesome (still slow and has skating issues) or that Zawadski was clean and Alissa was held up over a clean Agnes...
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Why it is unsettling going for a 3t3t in the short? it's always a 3-3, with the easiest jumps but with a higher value and more difficult even if it's with toes! Yuna kim had the 3lz3t but couldn't do the loop...mao had the axel but now it's more a miss than a hit and she has no lutz and tend to have her jumps downgraded. so what?..every skater works with what they have! I'm happy that carolina is not going for the lutz sice it gave her so much problems! She has two flips now and 2a3t! she cannot do 3f3t in the long without avoiding the 3toe after the axel because it would mean repeating 3 jumps and since her 2a3t is more secure than 3f3t she's going for it!

Carolina has no "big" trick to make up for a missing Lutz. Yuna had no triple Loop but she consistently landed big 3/3's. Mao Flutzed and had problems with the Salchow but she could do the 3Axel. What is Carolina's big trick these days? Good skating skills and artistry? Yuna and Mao had those, too. She's hardly on par with them, and not just on the medals count.

But her most recent tech content is pretty decent.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Skating Skills and artistry? I'd argue that she's definitely on par with Mao and Yuna in that category, even if she hasn't been as successful.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Kostner doing two flips in the LP is a good thing. Her SP jump content was sub-junior. 3T-2T, 3Loop, as the main triples is beneath a world champion frontrunner! It is good to see two flips. Reaching for a flip as your hardest jump is pre-90's and very 80's. "Will she go for the flip?" is not something good. I would like to see a lutz.
Carolina has no "big" trick to make up for a missing Lutz. Yuna had no triple Loop but she consistently landed big 3/3's. Mao Flutzed and had problems with the Salchow but she could do the 3Axel. What is Carolina's big trick these days? Good skating skills and artistry? Yuna and Mao had those, too. She's hardly on par with them, and not just on the medals count.
I believe you mean that Asada has a 3A<, which is not quite the same thing. Why does a skater need a big trick? I don't think any of the recent men's champions can be identified as having a single big trick. And really, the whole point of Yu-Na is that she was strong across the board; her skating wasn't about having a specific wow element.

Yet again: Kostner had a good 3F (including in combo) for years. She lost it, and her 3Lz, when she was injured and couldn't practice the jumps, and by her own admission has not gotten the 3Lz back consistently. Why is it worse to be missing a harder jump rather than an easier one? If Carolina should hang her head in shame, how about the ladies who can't do 3S or 3R? Are they the same as novice or intermediate or whatever lower level you want to use?

Kostner has plenty of strengths: her jumps are with the proper technique, and she rotates them; she is fast and has great skating skills and steps (IIRC she was the first lady to get level 4), and she has pushed herself artistically with interesting music choices.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Carolina has no "big" trick to make up for a missing Lutz. Yuna had no triple Loop but she consistently landed big 3/3's. Mao Flutzed and had problems with the Salchow but she could do the 3Axel. What is Carolina's big trick these days? Good skating skills and artistry? Yuna and Mao had those, too. She's hardly on par with them, and not just on the medals count.

But her most recent tech content is pretty decent.

What was Ando's big trick last year-when she was missing a 3flip????? And how many of the girls everyone mentioned were really flutzing/had true lutzes.

Don't get me wrong though I DO think having all the jumps should be rewarded more.
 
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