Plushenko's health issues spring 2012

amber68 said:

Really?
I think that Evan is a very good skater but he had lots of help to win his OGM.
1. Olympic Games in North America
2. ISU seminars presenting Plushy's weaknesses (Why ISU didn't do seminars about Evan's 3A which actually was a 3S?)
3. Mr. Inman's e-mail to the judges and the subsequent media fuss
4. North American media which obviously know how to put pressure on ISU, judges etc. to get what they want (S&P gold medal is a proof).
The campaign against Plush was really disgusting and I wonder what will the North American say if the Russians do the same in Sochi:
1. Agressive clips with the junkies and homeless from New York followed by images of Evan, Jeremy or Patrick (similar to the clip with falling statue of Lenin and Plush, no?). Of course the title will be "Fallen western world" and will include clips with Patrick, Jermey, Even falling. Nice, no?
2. Lots of e-mails from, for example Lakernik, focused on the weakness of one of the North American top competitors (amplified by a leak in the media, of course)
3. ISU seminars about chain falling (focused on Chan or Jeremy ) and how this doesn't really matter.
Now, what would you say? Would this kind of campaign help Artur or Plush?
Would it be O.K. with you?

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And was Putins' would be asassin just found have orchestrated all this to make Zhenya skate two 6.0 programs in Vancouver which were so shaky most commentators felt silver was lucky? Oh, C'mon. He was the best in Vancouver-judges, spectators, expert commentators all agreed. Sorry-you must be Plushified!

amber68 said:

Really?
I think that Evan is a very good skater but he had lots of help to win his OGM.
1. Olympic Games in North America
2. ISU seminars presenting Plushy's weaknesses (Why ISU didn't do seminars about Evan's 3A which actually was a 3S?)
3. Mr. Inman's e-mail to the judges and the subsequent media fuss
4. North American media which obviously know how to put pressure on ISU, judges etc. to get what they want (S&P gold medal is a proof).
The campaign against Plush was really disgusting and I wonder what will the North American say if the Russians do the same in Sochi:
1. Agressive clips with the junkies and homeless from New York followed by images of Evan, Jeremy or Patrick (similar to the clip with falling statue of Lenin and Plush, no?). Of course the title will be "Fallen western world" and will include clips with Patrick, Jermey, Even falling. Nice, no?
2. Lots of e-mails from, for example Lakernik, focused on the weakness of one of the North American top competitors (amplified by a leak in the media, of course)
3. ISU seminars about chain falling (focused on Chan or Jeremy ) and how this doesn't really matter.
Now, what would you say? Would this kind of campaign help Artur or Plush?
Would it be O.K. with you?

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I actually agree with a lot of what you wrote. However, I'm sure that the Russian federation worked just as hard politiking for Plushy. We really don't know what went on behind the scenes on their end, but look how much pressure the North Americans put on the SLC pairs judges to make that French judge crack. A lot of this never sees the light of day but it happens and if you aren't pushing your athlete you are doing your skaters a disservice. It's not something I agree with but I accept it as part as some pissing contest between nations, as if it makes your country superior in some way by winning Olympic medals.

skateluvr said:

And was Putins' would be asassin just found have orchestrated all this to make Zhenya skate two 6.0 programs in Vancouver which were so shaky most commentators felt silver was lucky? Oh, C'mon. He was the best in Vancouver-judges, spectators, expert commentators all agreed. Sorry-you must be Plushified!

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What does Plushified mean?

The good thing about Vancouver is that Plushenko in an interview a year after said that Mishin and his team made the impossible to hide from him all media frenzy from Euros to Olys to keep him calm so when he read most of them the competition was already over and he didnt care. So skaters sometimes are more ignorant of every little thing that is being written and said than fans.
I had found the fallen Lenin clip annoying the days of Vancouver, especially in Lp day, but know I watch it and laugh, it is really a blockbaster, with that music, dark tones and video cuts, sorry, who else got such a hollywood video for introduction?

I dont know about judges, obviously since they put the scores but no, commentators and spectators not all agreed as far as I can recall, cause if everybody did we wouldnt discuss it like 100 times after, but it is normal when results are so close, really it is moo point and it doesnt matter cause it is a competition and some people will be happy and some not. I dont think there was a hate on the board for Evan or Plush back then, but it was normal to read intense posts and just the weird posters of those 15 days have long dissapeared now.
And I have the right not to enjoy Evan 's olympic programs, skating, posture, jump landings, P/E/CH without being charged that it is because he won Olys over Plushenko cause he won over a lot of skaters I wish they had won instead besides my top favorite, I didnt care about his skate before and I didnt like him when saw him live after. I cant get into like Mroz or Rippon's skating either, saying it from now in case they win the next Olys. But Abott and Miner I do like a lot

DianaSelene said:

Well, even though Evan won, his win was not amazing (he did not win by a huge margin) and many still think he did not deserve the gold (such as me) because although he is a hard worker, he's just not that fun to watch. His programs were not just trite, they were boring (at least for me). He was not all that artistic ever. Evan just wasn't that special, he skated well though at the right place at the right time.

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Well, Evan cannot be blamed for Plushenko´s overscoring. The difference would have been a lot bigger, if Plushenko had been scored for what actually happened on the ice in Vancouver (and not for reputation).

Sadly, much like 1994 when there were all these comebacks and Boitano looked to dominate and he was lower than the returning Petrenko in 2010 in Vancouver everyone was rather blah. Tak, Chan, Lambiel, Kozuka even Plushy was off, Abbott had not risen yet, Joubert all but a distant memory - the door was open and EVan went through it though the scores suggest imho that Plushy still could have won. At the same time I will be fair, and say Evan could have and did win. I will show my bias, I don't think Chan is overscored. He does COP very well and then you would have to say Buttle, Lambiel and Takahashi were overscored. Those three skaters have amazing pcs and should. I don't think we can fully appreciate the difficulty of great edging. Evan good but not great. Evan played the game well. Even little things like gettng out his designer of his costume's name out - Vera Wang (the wedding designer and designer to the waif like stars - okay I am getting snitty here but she tends to prefer the waif like figures or boyish figures). He got the right support and coaching team, choreographer etc. But his choreography and certainly his edging was no Buttle, Lambiel, Takashasi or Chan. he's not even a Fernadez. he reminds me of Witt - not really the greatest skater but a great competitor and did enough to win - relying on all her assets - personality - remember she didn't have the big jumps or even the pointed toes. She used her personality, her body sorry to say and that got points. The other boys didn't skate well and Evan won OGM - sadly it wasn't a memorable performance only to perhaps diehard Evan or American friends but most would say it did not have the quality of the other skaters (not including jumps perhaps). And luck or otherwise Evan pulled it out at the right time. Maybe it was luck he fixed his triple axel (that season earlier on it was underrotated often but I give him full credit though admittedly I kind of think now it is time for him to leave gracefully - don't push your luck. Sorry, I repeated parts here I think.

I'm so relieved to hear Plushy will not have a spine surgery. I hope he will get good rehab and come back strong. Looking forward to seeing his amazing jumps again!

Jaana said:

Well, Evan cannot be blamed for Plushenko´s overscoring. The difference would have been a lot bigger, if Plushenko had been scored for what actually happened on the ice in Vancouver (and not for reputation).

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Do we need to go that road again? 90+ for Lysacek' s 3-3 Sp, really? How was the same sp marked at the beginning of the season?
There are many ways to see what actually happened on the ice. And I guess Evan had no reputation.

Jaana said:

Well, Evan cannot be blamed for Plushenko´s overscoring. The difference would have been a lot bigger, if Plushenko had been scored for what actually happened on the ice in Vancouver (and not for reputation).

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Yes, because Evan Lysacek was only scored on merit. No reputation scoring at all, no federation politicking. And the Inman e-mail didn't target any of his competitors.

I'm glad Plushenko does not need further surgery at this point, and wish him the best of health in the future. But I sincerely hope that he stays off the (competitive) ice; he has had an incredible career and I hate the thought of him, or any skater, risking his long-term health as he has been doing. I vote for him and Joubert and Lambiel to add Yags to the fold and make KoI a global tour.

seniorita said:

I just Plushy twit and thanx for Tatjana Flade who translated it

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Thanks for the update, great news.

Jaana said:

Well, Evan cannot be blamed for Plushenko´s overscoring. The difference would have been a lot bigger, if Plushenko had been scored for what actually happened on the ice in Vancouver (and not for reputation).

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Ha, I'd say Plushenko can be blamed for Evan's overscoring. Without Plushenko's electrified SP with the score of 90.85, the judges wouldn't have given Evan (and Takahashi for that matter) over 90 with no quad - the first time ever a quadless SP got over 90 - talk about "conservative" judging at Olympics. Their PCS in SP at 2010 Olympics:

Plushenko: PCS=39.75
Lysacek: PCS=42
Takahashi: PCS=41.35

Other than SS which Lysacek was 8.20 but Takahashi was 8.30 and Plushenko was 8.20, Lysacek won all the rest of the categories in PCS. If Lysacek has been scored anywhere closer to his real abilities, he wouldn't have been anywhere near Takahashi and almighty Plushenko.

Maybe we should change the name of the thread to "Plushenko doesn't need spinal surgery after all" to reflect the good news?

Well, whether it's translation issues or no, I am glad to have Mishin's assurances that Plushy's spine will not be cut up and his leg will not be cut off. As if anyone thought that!

Glad it was "just" arthroscopy on his meniscus at this point and hope he doesn't need anything further by way of surgery.

Good fortune to Toni's dad with his orthopedic issues.

1. I agree with Olympia.

2. skateluvr, I'm someone who's criticized Plushenko's skating and his comeback (the 2010 one, not this year) far more than Lysacek's gold medal. Neither were my favourites going into Vancouver (My podium wish was Lambiel-Takahashi-Chan/Abbott). The difference between Plushenko and Lysacek for me now? Lysacek's talk, Plushenko's action. Plushenko already came back once and proved his mental strength and startling skills in a field that was disappointingly lacking in those traits (at that time). When he said he wanted to come back for Sochi, well, I was skeptical but frankly, willing to believe it because of his strength. After Euros, it's no long about "willing to believe it." Spun Silver said something like "Strength of will and immensity of talent" and I think that describes Plushenko to a T. I truly believe he'll be there. I believe it will be a powerful moment. Plushenko leading (is there any doubt he'll be the captain?) the Russian team to the team Gold medal (and whatever individual achievements he's capable of), alongside (hopefully) the first Russian lady to win a singles title on home ice after the overall disappointment of Vancouver and the general decline of Russian figure skating since Turin? Yeah, I'm excited for that.

Lysacek's talk. He might come back. He might not. If he does, I'll be impressed. If he doesn't, it won't change the fact that he won the Olympics (and I do believe he deserved it - and yes, I can see the argument that Plushenko/Mishin were out-politicked, and yes, the quad has something do with it).

IP, you and Buttercup have very similar way of writing your arguments, and if you dont mind I steal words from both frequently and note them down

Glad it was "just" arthroscopy on his meniscus at this point

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what is arthroscopy as a process, I know the meaning because its greek but what do they do?

Anyway I found this about his back
http://en.ria.ru/sports/20120228/171586895.html

“The injury will be treated with non-invasive methods: injections into the muscles, physiotherapy, acupuncture,” Russian skating team doctor

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Is this good?

dorispulaski said:

No one likes to see a talented skater like Plush have his career end in back surgery. That's why a lot of us are thrilled to see that he is going to be OK, even if we aren't huge Plush fans in the normal way of things.

While many people may not be Plush's uber fans, I don't think you would find a skate fan anywhere that doesn't respect Plush's many impressive achievements in the sport and his determination to keep competing. Again, that's why so many of us are glad to see that he's feeling better without resorting to surgery.

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Yeah. Whilst Plushy is not in my favourite list (I don't have hate list), he's certainly a talented skater (he wouldn't have been able to dominate if he has not talent) whether he's everyone's cup of tea or not. I certainly admire this man for his steely determination to compete despite the no. of screws in his body. The Russians will certainly be happy to see him skate in Sochi and I think he will.

seniorita said:

“The injury will be treated with non-invasive methods: injections into the muscles, physiotherapy, acupuncture,” Russian skating team doctor

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Is this good?

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Assuming these methods prove effective, it's certainly better to avoid invasive procedures (and arthroscopy is also less invasive, as surgical procedures go).

seniorita said:

IP, you and Buttercup have very similar way of writing your arguments, and if you dont mind I steal words from both frequently and note them down



what is arthroscopy as a process, I know the meaning because its greek but what do they do?

Anyway I found this about his back
http://en.ria.ru/sports/20120228/171586895.html



Is this good?

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You start out with an advantage over the rest of us with medical terms, Seniorita! Arthroscopy is a less invasive procedure than traditional "open them up" surgery (with a large incision). As I understand it, arthroscopic surgery goes in by a tiny cut and inserts a viewing device inside the body to see where to do the work. So there's no cutting of excess tissue (and then having to stitch all that back up again) to get at something. Obviously not every problem can be dealt with by arthroscopic surgery. Two famous early cases of arthroscopic surgery were Mary Lou Retton and Joan Benoit before the 1984 Summer Olympics. Retton worked her gymnastics miracles just weeks after the procedure (winning the all-around individual gold), and Benoit, the first women's marathon winner, qualified for the team just weeks after a similar procedure. So you see that this surgery is of great benefit to an athlete, because training can often be resumed quickly afterward.

skateluvr said:

illogical-you compete against who there is . Evan 'smushed; Chan easily as Chan splatted everywhere. his ss didn't help then but that was before such inflation due to messed up IJS.

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Honestly, I did not understand anything you said except that my point of view was illogical.

Jaana said:

Well, Evan cannot be blamed for Plushenko´s overscoring. The difference would have been a lot bigger, if Plushenko had been scored for what actually happened on the ice in Vancouver (and not for reputation).

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I wonder who here was overscored. You say Plushenko. I say Lysacek.