Why is China not a power in all disciplines | Golden Skate

Why is China not a power in all disciplines

skateluvr

skateluvr

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Oct 23, 2011
They have the state sponsored schools, many perfect sized people who'd love to train, so money or talent is not a problem. They have produced great pairs teams with one being legendary against big, big odds. Is it a matter of a bit more time? The methods and their willingness to put their best gymnasts out there young shows they want to dominate in whatever sport they can. Why has it been so long since the stunningly gifted Chen Lu? Perhaps skate Gods want more humanitarian policies in life and training before Chaina takes all the metals (misspellling intended_:)
 
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pangtongfan

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Pairs is where they have had success developing numerous good teams so that is where they continue to focus their efforts. Lu Chen was their only good women by a long ways, the rest they have produced stunk, like in Lillehammer 94 Olympics for instance they had 3 Chinese due to her, but the other 2 fought for the final position into the long program placing 24th and 25th (only the top 25 moved on), and they should thank Susan Humprhies for falling on a double lutz or else both would have been out. There wasnt a chain to filter one to the next, and motivate a group it seems. They had a few jumping bean men but they never developed the package, skating skills, spins, or anything much besides jumps and ok choreography at times to be top contenders. They seem to have given up the fight there for now. Dance is the hardest for most new power countries to even try and tackle.
 
dorispulaski

dorispulaski

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How many towns have ice rinks? That might be an important issue. China does not have a big tradition of ice hockey, speed skating, curling, or broomball after all, so it isn't like every sizable town would just have a rink.
 
sky_fly20

sky_fly20

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the spread of wealth, its not only China, even other countries are not a power in all disciplines
USA - has strong ladies, men and ice dance but weak pairs
Russia - has strong ladies, ice dance, pairs but weak men
Canada - has strong men, ice dance and pairs but weak ladies
Japan - has strong men and ladies but weak ice dance and pairs

its the same as other sports, like in artistic gymnastics and trampoline China is a power
but in another gymnastics discipline China has zero success rate in rhythmic gymnastics
I think culture plays a role too in what discipline or social changes your country can be successful
 
spikydurian

spikydurian

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I don’t think China will dominate in all four disciplines in figure skating esp. ice dancing which is an extension of western ballroom dancing . It is not realistic. Even Japan, where fs is very popular, could not dominate in all four disciplines.

In my personal opinion, one of the reasons as Doris has pointed out, is the lack of skating tradition and access to resources. If I recall correctly, sounds like the training rinks are all northern located particularly in Harbin? Children will have to train away from homes and I think many families may not be agreeable unless they see a future in skating for their children.
China may now have a larger middle-class but wealth is not well spread out unlike western countries like USA, Canada and Europe so access to western sports and dance may still be limited to many.

I see USA, Russia and Canada having a higher chance of dominating all four disciplines because skating is still very much a western (cold country) sport.
 
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Skater Boy

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Feb 24, 2012
pangtongfan said:
Pairs is where they have had success developing numerous good teams so that is where they continue to focus their efforts. Lu Chen was their only good women by a long ways, the rest they have produced stunk, like in Lillehammer 94 Olympics for instance they had 3 Chinese due to her, but the other 2 fought for the final position into the long program placing 24th and 25th (only the top 25 moved on), and they should thank Susan Humprhies for falling on a double lutz or else both would have been out. There wasnt a chain to filter one to the next, and motivate a group it seems. They had a few jumping bean men but they never developed the package, skating skills, spins, or anything much besides jumps and ok choreography at times to be top contenders. They seem to have given up the fight there for now. Dance is the hardest for most new power countries to even try and tackle.
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Sad but sort of funny story. I ran into Susan Humphries grandfather at McDonald's once and he was talking about her. I didn't know who she was originally and then remembered reading about her in some book. And all I could think about my knowledge of her was "Wasn't she the skater who cost Canada a shot at the olympics because she fell on an easy jump and wouldn't give her spot to someone else who was healthier? I can just see spiky go oh how mean. I felt bad. Because wasn't she part of when Canada often had two decent ladies? - Chouinard, Humphries, Preston et al???? I also ran into the ice princess acidentally when I opened the door to a bathroom that wasn't locked and there was the ice princess on the throne (blush). I guess you have to laugh. On a serious note I think she is very happily married. It's nice how everythign works out:) It's odd because usually I run into American skaters if anyone:)
 
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pangtongfan

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Skater Boy said:
Sad but sort of funny story. I ran into Susan Humphries grandfather at McDonald's once and he was talking about her. I didn't know who she was originally and then remembered reading about her in some book. And all I could think about my knowledge of her was "Wasn't she the skater who cost Canada a shot at the olympics because she fell on an easy jump and wouldn't give her spot to someone else who was healthier? I can just see spiky go oh how mean. I felt bad. Because wasn't she part of when Canada often had two decent ladies? - Chouinard, Humphries, Preston et al???? I also ran into the ice princess acidentally when I opened the door to a bathroom that wasn't locked and there was the ice princess on the throne (blush). I guess you have to laugh. On a serious note I think she is very happily married. It's nice how everythign works out:) It's odd because usually I run into American skaters if anyone:)
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Well it was the 97 Worlds where she skated unhealthy and cost Canada a spot at the Olympics. The thing is though she would have 24th in the short, she was amazingly placed there ahead of Lu Chen who also had 2 major mistakes yet was placed behind. She just had to complete the LP and she would have gotten Canada a spot in Nagano. Why the heck not just go out there, even if she only does 3 singles jumps and poses and shakes her booty for the rest. Maybe she will get 1.7s or something, but she still would stay in 24th and give Canada a spot in Nagano, for herself or someone else. I never understand how skaters who only need to complete a LP to secure something dont. If she was able to land a triple toe and attempt a triple lutz in the short program, she was well enough to muster something for the long. Yes she probably should have withdrawn altogether. All around bad form on her part. Overall her career is enigmatic to say the least.

I am glad to hear she is doing well now though.
 
mskater93

mskater93

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Oct 22, 2005
I agree with you on the stand out there for 4:10 to maintain your rank. I have a friend who had a leg injury (male skater) and he basically skated around on the good leg for the length of his program just to qualify for Nationals (there were either 2 or 3 guys in the group, top 4 make Nationals...). By Nationals he was healthy and ended up on the podium...
 
Blades of Passion

Blades of Passion

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sky_fly20 said:
I know that,
I'm talking about the current status of FS disciplines in each countries
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Russian men just won the #1 and #2 spots at the European Championships. They won a medal at the past Olympics and the past World Championships. It can't be said that they have weak men.

Ice Dance is the weakest discipline for Russia right now.
 
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sky_fly20

sky_fly20

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^

Pluschenko is an excemption and of all their current men , they only have Gachinski and he is still inconsistent
sure he got bronze at 2011 Worlds but he still needs to repeat that to show that it was not a fluke .

I think Gachinski has never won a medal during his junior competitions.
 
Blades of Passion

Blades of Passion

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How is Plushenko an exemption? He is a Russian male figure skater (despite attempts to paint him as either a God or a Devil).

sky_fly20 said:
I think Gachinski has never won a medal during his junior competitions.
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Pretty much completely irrelevant...and that isn't even true anyway! Gachinski was on the podium at 2010 Junior Worlds and won many medals, including gold, at Junior Grand Prix competitions.
 
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pangtongfan

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Gachinski is a long shot at best to medal at Worlds, even if he skates his best he wont medal unless others bomb, and who knows if Plushenko will be able to come back at all from yet another (two) surgeries. The European men are weak to begin with, far below Chan and the top 3 or 4 Japanese, and even Abbott on a good day, and the best European men apart from the Russians all skated really poorly at Europeans this year, so going 1-2 at Europeans isnt even a big deal.

I agree Russia is weak in both dance and mens right now.
 
sky_fly20

sky_fly20

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Nov 20, 2011
^


only men they are in a drought, sure hey have the boring Bobrova/Soloviev
but the upcomers and new seniors like Ilinykh/Katsalapov, Riazanova/Tkachenko and even the juniors turning soon seniors
Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, Stepanova/Bukin, Monko/Kahaliavin , Yanovskaia/Mozgov etc. have big potential.

In fact in the coming seasons, their ice dance field will be full house
and will be dominating ice dance again in seniors.
 
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shine

shine

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Blades of Passion said:
How is Plushenko an exemption? He is a Russian male figure skater (despite attempts to paint him as either a God or a Devil).



Pretty much completely irrelevant...and that isn't even true anyway! Gachinski was on the podium at 2010 Junior Worlds and won many medals, including gold, at Junior Grand Prix competitions.
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But it's true that compared to what it was previously, Russia now has quite a depleted field and is no longer dominating men's skating like that used to. Yes Plushenko is still competing and has been for 15 years now. And Russia seems desperate to keep him eligible exactly because of their otherwise depleted men's field. As for dance being Russia's weakest descpline, well we know for sure whoever said that has not been paying any attention to the junior circuit. :laugh:
 
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sky_fly20

sky_fly20

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^

exactly.

as for France they have good chance in the men, ice dance but weak in ladies and pairs
see ? all countries have a depleted or not all disciplines they excel not just China
 
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noidont

Final Flight
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Mar 27, 2010
Well, I think it's mostly coaching. Before Mingzhu Li went back ladies was a deep hole where Liu Yan, an incredible slow skater went to Worlds and Olympics for a couple of years. In other countries, if a skater shows potential and needs better coaching, they pay to train in the US but the Chinese state would evaluate the cost effectiveness and never pay for such enormous costs.

I don't think access to rinks is a problem. Northern China has a strong skating tradition. Southern China, not so much, but there are still very good rinks in almost every big city. But since there isn't enough high level coaches, kids don't take it that seriously.
 
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feraina

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Mar 3, 2007
noidont said:
Well, I think it's mostly coaching. Before Mingzhu Li went back ladies was a deep hole where Liu Yan, an incredible slow skater went to Worlds and Olympics for a couple of years. In other countries, if a skater shows potential and needs better coaching, they pay to train in the US but the Chinese state would evaluate the cost effectiveness and never pay for such enormous costs.
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The distribution of wealth and rinks/coaches in China are mis-aligned. The Northeast (including Harbin) with the rinks/coaches isn't wealthy, whereas southern coastal regions like Shanghai/Zhejiang/Shenzhen don't have many rinks or good coaches. A beautiful new rink opened in Hangzhou, Zhejiang last year, a large, wealthy coastal city, to much excitement -- it might be the first year-round rink for that entire province. I read somewhere sales exceeded expectations in the first year, and it expects to turn a profit in two years! Chen Lu and her husband opened a rink in Shenzhen (near Hong Kong, the first city in China to open up economically) a few years ago and apparently there are some promising young skaters. I think it's just going to take time for the skating culture to develop in China so as to provide a talent/coaching base. It's kinda pathetic how the national championship consists of all the two dozen or so age eligible skaters/teams in each category. I'm not even sure there is any kind of qualifying process.

Lulu and Mingzhu Li were both one-off special talents. I don't know how they managed to get to the top of the skating world with so little resources around them. But being a good skater doesn't automatically mean you can be a great coach (Lu Chen), and Mingzhu Li didn't work in China after Lulu until a couple years ago. It's obvious that she is a great coach -- she's single-handedly raising the standard/profile of Chinese ladies skating again. Who knows what Yan Liu or Binshu Xu could have achieved under her guidance, considering they both had all five triples with correct edges.
 
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