Should Gracie or Caroline or Agnes or Mirai replace Alissa for Worlds?

Puchi · Mar 10, 2012

jaylee said:
So why did they think Alissa could pull this off?

I think that was the whole point of sending her to this competition. Now that's clear she can't handle the harder content in her programs, she'll go back to her comfort zone and will skate at worlds without the added pressure of including the tougher jumps. I think, if she's not injured, she'll do just fine.

heyang · Mar 10, 2012

I don't think the USFSA can just change their team on a whim. They had to submit official team names and paperwork etc to the ISU for World's. I think the only way to change the team is if someone withdraws due to injury or personal reasons (i.e. family problem, death in family, medical reasons.)

There's no way the USFSA should send Gracie Gold. She hasn't even competed at the senior levels in the US, let alone at any significant senior level international event. as others have mentioned, senior World Champions should not be her 1st international event, as well as skipping over other more seasoned skaters.

Unfortunately, the US Ladies have not been overly consistent. It was surprising to realize that no US Lady has won consecutive back-to-back US championships since Michele Kwan who last skated at US Nationals in 2005. Even before MK, US Ladies might not consistently win, but the top contenders always seemed to be placed on the podium in stlightly different order. I don't think the same all 3 ladies from one year have been on the podium the following year.

DianaSelene · Mar 10, 2012

Puchi said:
I think that was the whole point of sending her to this competition. Now that's clear she can't handle the harder content in her programs, she'll go back to her comfort zone and will skate at worlds without the added pressure of including the tougher jumps. I think, if she's not injured, she'll do just fine.

Considering worlds will be very soon, isn't it a little too late to see if she can handle these hard jumps in competition? Change the jumps at the last minute? I don't think that was why she went to this competition. It was probably just for more practice, and it didn't go well.

romanoff81 · Mar 10, 2012

Alissa should not go to worlds she is still injured and not ready she will bomb in nice its almost a guarantee, Abbott can recover but he`s in tough for a medal if he can`t even beat a has been like Joubert.

Puchi · Mar 10, 2012

DianaSelene said:
Considering worlds will be very soon, isn't it a little too late to see if she can handle these hard jumps in competition? Change the jumps at the last minute?

That was what Kostner did. She added a second 3 flip and a 2axel-3toe "at the last minute" to her LP.

DianaSelene · Mar 10, 2012

Puchi said:
That was what Kostner did. She added a second 3 flip and a 2axel-3toe "at the last minute" to her LP.

But compare Kostner who had a pretty successful season this year with Czisny. The last thing a skater like Czisny (who has had trouble with nerves, injuries, and jumps the whole year) is to change jump layout right before worlds.

ImaginaryPogue · Mar 10, 2012

DianaSelene said:
But compare Kostner who had a pretty successful season this year with Czisny. The last thing a skater like Czisny (who has had trouble with nerves, injuries, and jumps the whole year) is to change jump layout right before worlds.

And also that Kostner is a much much much better jumper than Czisny. Truthfully, I don't think it was a terrible idea, though, for her to go for the hard elements here. If she messes up, no big deal - it's a minor competition at a no-name event (well, except to internet debaters, of course). I'd argue that going to the competition was a bigger risk (and now, I doubt it pays off).

macy · Mar 10, 2012

i think adding things at the last minute/changing things around isn't a good setup for alissa. some people handle it better than others. i also think she should go back to her old layout in the short...3Lz+2T, 3F and 2A. even if you keep changing the layout all year it can be difficult because you never really have enough time to get it consistent...they should have kept her long the same way all season. i think when she is going to go for the triple-triple she is thinking about it too much, and her loop has been inconsistent the times she's attempted it in the short. the other layout seemed to suit her better. it's smarter to do a clean performance with positive GOE's than go for difficult tech content with negatives. i think her confidence still gets hindered very easily, and maybe that's why she didn't do well in the long. i hope this competition was just to get the bugs out of both jeremy and alissa, as i love them both. if both go to worlds, i hope both of them will be fighters.

R.D. · Mar 10, 2012

It is a very tempting thought indeed- to kick Czisny off the World team for this atrocity. I bet certain other federations wouldn't hesitate to do so...

But upon further thought- you kick Czisny off the team and replace her with who, exactly?

....

Zawadzki? Don't make me laugh. She is just as inconsistent as Czisny is, and worse, she doesn't get the scores Czisny does (yet). This is clearly a step down.

Zhang? After 4CC this might be tempting...but Zhang was quite solid at both Nationals and 4CCs. If she has a bit of an off-night (happens to everyone)? Not sure she has much to hold her up if that happens. I think it would be a serious gamble.

Nagasu? Well, not after what we saw at Nationals. Her head clearly isn't in the game and I doubt she's training actively enough to be ready for top-level competition in 2 weeks.

Gold? She has not skated a senior program all year long, and while it appears she has SOME mental toughness, still a lot to ask of anyone to get ready for big worlds in just 2 weeks time. Anyway, is 2 weeks enough to get a senior LP trained and ready to go?

Flatt? Well...let's just not go there (again).

Looking at the above options, I think Gold would be the best choice, but it's still a lot to ask. I never thought we had a strong shot at 3 spots because of Czisny's condition and Wagner's unpredictability. Even if Wagner did the unprecedented and finished on the podium, Czisny would be well out of the top 10 if she were to bomb the LP this hard (or even like GPF), and we still have 2 spots.

On the bright side, potentially, better she tanks here than at worlds- but I'm worried about her confidence and the short time for traveling. As soon as she gets back and gets acclimated to US time again, it's almost time to roll...

...the dice, perhaps.

chuckm · Mar 10, 2012

heyang said:
I don't think the USFSA can just change their team on a whim. They had to submit official team names and paperwork etc to the ISU for World's. I think the only way to change the team is if someone withdraws due to injury or personal reasons (i.e. family problem, death in family, medical reasons.)

There's no way the USFSA should send Gracie Gold. She hasn't even competed at the senior levels in the US, let alone at any significant senior level international event. as others have mentioned, senior World Champions should not be her 1st international event, as well as skipping over other more seasoned skaters.

USFS can replace a skater any time up to a few days before the competition with a skater on the substitute list: Zawadzki, Zhang or Nagasu. Since Gold is not on the substitute list, she cannot replace Czisny at Worlds.

R.D. · Mar 10, 2012

chuckm said:
USFS can replace a skater any time up to a few days before the competition with a skater on the substitute list: Zawadzki, Zhang or Nagasu. Since Gold is not on the substitute list, she cannot replace Czisny at Worlds.

In that case, the next best thing is Zhang I suppose...as I mentioned, still a major gamble. If Czisny is healthy (i.e. not concealing any ailment), may as well go. It's rolling the dice either way. So be it.

sky_fly20 · Mar 11, 2012

R.D. said:
It is a very tempting thought indeed- to kick Czisny off the World team for this atrocity. I bet certain other federations wouldn't hesitate to do so...

But upon further thought- you kick Czisny off the team and replace her with who, exactly?

....

Zawadzki? Don't make me laugh. She is just as inconsistent as Czisny is, and worse, she doesn't get the scores Czisny does (yet). This is clearly a step down.

Zhang? After 4CC this might be tempting...but Zhang was quite solid at both Nationals and 4CCs. If she has a bit of an off-night (happens to everyone)? Not sure she has much to hold her up if that happens. I think it would be a serious gamble.

Nagasu? Well, not after what we saw at Nationals. Her head clearly isn't in the game and I doubt she's training actively enough to be ready for top-level competition in 2 weeks.

Gold? She has not skated a senior program all year long, and while it appears she has SOME mental toughness, still a lot to ask of anyone to get ready for big worlds in just 2 weeks time. Anyway, is 2 weeks enough to get a senior LP trained and ready to go?

Flatt? Well...let's just not go there (again).

true, but they were to replace Czisny
Zhang would be the most reliable alternate, Zawadzki not so much
her nationals performance was a fluke.

skateflower · Mar 11, 2012

R.D. said:
In that case, the next best thing is Zhang I suppose...as I mentioned, still a major gamble. If Czisny is healthy (i.e. not concealing any ailment), may as well go. It's rolling the dice either way. So be it.

If it's rolling the dice, I'prefer to roll a dice with 50% odds (zhang) instead of a dice with less than 15% odds(Czisny) based on their last two consecutive competitions respectively.

drivingmissdaisy · Mar 11, 2012

R.D. said:
In that case, the next best thing is Zhang I suppose...as I mentioned, still a major gamble. If Czisny is healthy (i.e. not concealing any ailment), may as well go. It's rolling the dice either way. So be it.

I think if she were concealing an ailment, she would have withdrawn from this event to heal for worlds. I don't even think the USFSA would pressure her to WD because they have gone out of their way to give her great marks at Nationals, so they clearly want her on the team despite her history of shaky performances.

krenseby · Mar 11, 2012

R.D. said:
In that case, the next best thing is Zhang I suppose...as I mentioned, still a major gamble. If Czisny is healthy (i.e. not concealing any ailment), may as well go. It's rolling the dice either way. So be it.

While I am very happy for how Caroline's season turned out, I am not sure competing at Worlds would be to her advantage. I think this was a rebuilding year for her gearing up for next season, where she would be in a much more competitive mode. I would say the same about Agnes Zawadzki. She may have a bright future ahead of her, but she isn't quite ready to make a big splash with a strong LP this season. I actually think Nagasu would be best suited to replace Alissa. She did have sort of a meltdown at Nationals, but I think she may just get through her LP on a good day and even score well. A decent skate from Mirai wouldn't score too badly, would it now?

dorispulaski · Mar 11, 2012

Mirai really hasn't had a good skate all year, although I understand her practices at US Nationals were good. Just let Czisny go. Sometimes the US doesn't deserve 3 spots. But for crying out loud, don't next Nationals go out of your way to overgift any of the skaters on PCS. The point of Nationals is to let them go head to head, and see who qualifies.

pangtongfan · Mar 11, 2012

dorispulaski said:
Mirai really hasn't had a good skate all year, all though I understand her practices at US Nationals were good. Just let Czisny go. Sometimes the US doesn't deserve 3 spots. But for crying out loud, don't next Nationals go out of your way to overgift any of the skaters on PCS. The point of Nationals is to let them go head to head, and see who qualifies.

Very true. Pre judging Nationals doesnt work out, and this year is the proof of that. Last year and the holding up of Flatt was as well.

chuckm · Mar 11, 2012

Totally agree that Czisny was gifted with the silver medal at Nationals. At best, she should have been in fourth place behind Zawadzki and Zhang. USFS has had a bad habit of predeciding Nationals based on GP results and gifting the anointed ones with ridiculous PCS scores.

National medals should be given out for performance at Nationals, not what skaters did in the early season.

Also, I don't understand why Alissa would be revamping her programs to do jumps that she is not comfortable with. She just isn't a reliable jumper and should stick with the jumps she can do with some confidence.

Nadine · Mar 11, 2012

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Keep this in mind, USFSA, remember what happened to Rachael Flatt last year.

My final word on the subject.

macy · Mar 11, 2012

chuckm said:
Also, I don't understand why Alissa would be revamping her programs to do jumps that she is not comfortable with. She just isn't a reliable jumper and should stick with the jumps she can do with some confidence.

exactly my thoughts. it's smarter to just train one program with the same layout for a few months than to change it around all the time. like i said earlier, some people are more comfortable with it and don't have an issue, some people do. i watched her FS earlier and it looked like in the first half it was an injury or something else, not confidence...she was making silly mistakes. then i think because of the mistakes her confidence dropped and the rest of the program went down the drain.

Should Gracie or Caroline or Agnes or Mirai replace Alissa for Worlds?

Puchi

heyang

DianaSelene

romanoff81

Match Penalty

Puchi

DianaSelene

ImaginaryPogue

macy

R.D.

chuckm

R.D.

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

skateflower

Match Penalty

drivingmissdaisy

krenseby

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

chuckm

Nadine

macy

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