Should Gracie or Caroline or Agnes or Mirai replace Alissa for Worlds?

R.D. · Mar 11, 2012

Totally agree that Czisny was gifted with the silver medal at Nationals. At best, she should have been in fourth place behind Zawadzki and Zhang.

Seriously? Are people forgetting that Zawadzki ALSO had a really shaky FS? No way should she have been over Czisny.

I can understand the argument some were making that Zhang should have been 3rd over Zawadzki- but honestly, with the exception of Wagner, everyone was sorta iffy in that FS.

I actually think Nagasu would be best suited to replace Alissa. She did have sort of a meltdown at Nationals, but I think she may just get through her LP on a good day and even score well. A decent skate from Mirai wouldn't score too badly, would it now?

But here's the issue I have with this: You are basically trading in one headcase for another. Nagasu seemed totally uninspired, unprepared and unmotivated in her FS at Nationals. I guess if she did respectably, as you point out, she might be ok, but honestly- same goes for Czisny. The two are alike in that you don't really know what to expect from them, and at their best they are definitely among the elite. But "their best" doesn't happen often, if at all.

But for crying out loud, don't next Nationals go out of your way to overgift any of the skaters on PCS. The point of Nationals is to let them go head to head, and see who qualifies.

If I had to complain about anyone being overmarked, I'd say perhaps Zawadzki in the SP. Yes, her SP was great, but the point margin should have been narrower IMHO. Other than that, I think it was OK.

dorispulaski · Mar 11, 2012

Actually, the much-maligned Ms. Flatt turned in a really good free skate at US Nationals. The one thing she really screwed up was popping an axel? in the SP.

For that matter, Ms. Flatt landed more stuff on a broken leg at Worlds than Ms. Czisny did at her recent competition in The Hague.

No, I don't think Rachael should go to Worlds this year, but I think she should get a clean slate at the next Nationals and not be deliberately underscored, any more than Czisny should be deliberately overscored.

conga · Mar 11, 2012

skfan said:
i'm no czisny fan (right, mathman?) but this strikes me as very wrong--wrong enough to make me de-lurk, LOL. IMO you (the USFSA, whatever governing organization) should decide ahead of time what competition or competitions will decide the world team, you tell all the competitors so they know what to expect, and you don't get to take it back, unless the skater is truly injured or otherwise incapacitated.

if it truly is an injury that is hindering czisny then she should do the right thing and withdraw--the spot she saves might be her own at 2013 worlds. but if you keep saying, we reserve to change our minds at any time, the competitors never get to set their training schedules and mindset, IMO.

i always believe and i still do in US nationals being the night to make or break, decide it all, and even so the judges were able to influence the world team by fudging the judging at us nationals. they already took into account the whole GP season or whatever their tea-leaves-reading told them when they decided the 1,2,3,4 etc. so leave it at that. sleep in the bed you made.

it pains me to say this since i like many of the younger skaters like nina jiang, angela wang, leah keiser, and czisny skating like this at worlds would hurt them, but i really think this sort of knee-jerk neither here nor there is unfair to skaters in general.

I agree with this post. I want to see the US regain that third spot just as much as everyone else (in the US, at least) but USFS should not be allowed to re-nege on their assignment at this time. If this makes everyone stop to think about whether it SHOULD be considered, then fine. Make it clear to all skaters and coaches in advance and put it in writing...for next season. If it was known to be a possibility that a less than stellar performance at this competition could result in being removed from the World team, both Alissa and Jeremy may have chosen not to risk it.

Yes, if Alissa is injured, then she must withdraw. But if she isn't, she has no obligation to do so because there is absolutely no guarantee that Agnes or Caroline will perform well enough to regain the third spot.

skateflower · Mar 11, 2012

Alissa's LP at the Challenge Cup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF_hOWljg9A

merrywidow · Mar 11, 2012

It looked to me as if she was test skating an injury & it didn't go well at all. In fact, she may have reinjured herself.

emma · Mar 11, 2012

I can't bring myself to watch the video - but thanks for posting. My answer to the thread title is NO. But this is obvious as Gold isn't even named as an alternate. My bigger issue is a feel like we are going down this slippery slope of changing the rules and past practices (not always exactly the same thing), which I do not agree with. I think rules should be clearly written, published or well circulated, and applied evenly. If rules change, their should be a reasonable period of implementation, that in my opinion, should not occur mid-way through or during a season. World team is announced; we know the list of alternates, they have hopefully been training 'just in case,' and if someone withdraws, will be called.

Rachel, imo, did deserve higher scores at nationals, however, that is another topic (as is whether Alissa was overmarked).

DianaSelene · Mar 11, 2012

Even though the chance is small, there is still a possibility of the US getting 3 spots. If Wagner has the skate of her life, she may medal and Czisny just needs an average skate to get in top ten. However, if she skates like she did at Hague, I don't think she will be top ten.

Mrs. P · Mar 11, 2012

dorispulaski said:
Actually, the much-maligned Ms. Flatt turned in a really good free skate at US Nationals. The one thing she really screwed up was popping an axel? in the SP.

For that matter, Ms. Flatt landed more stuff on a broken leg at Worlds than Ms. Czisny did at her recent competition in The Hague.

No, I don't think Rachael should go to Worlds this year, but I think she should get a clean slate at the next Nationals and not be deliberately underscored, any more than Czisny should be deliberately overscored.

I think that probably speaks more of Ms. Flatt's competitiveness. She has been 100 percent mentally in competition even when she is failing physically. For all her flaws, this is the one that explains why until this year she has remain relatively in the game.

I thought Czisny was starting to get that competition nerve too, but she has been unraveling a bit in the last few competitions. I feel something is going on that isn't been talked about.

By the way Doris, are you going all NYT style on us since reading that D/W article?

noidont · Mar 11, 2012

Oh just another year. Every national champion falls completely apart the year after.
Alissa doesn't look well and hasn't looked well for a while. I'm never a fan of her, but if I were her, I would withdraw for my own sake. Bombing at Worlds would be the end of her career, just like it was for Flatt. If she wants to go to Sochi, which she clearly does, give this one up.
Of course, Zawadzki isn't a better bet for three spots next year, but at least no one would really blame her for screwing up. Alissa's career gets saved, and Agnes getting a World debut, not a bad arrangement. I've always felt that Agnes has better scoring potential than Caroline Zhang, if she's on.
Or, that Alissa is just having her period.

Mathman · Mar 11, 2012

Mrs. P said:
I feel something is going on that isn't been talked about.

I think so, too.

Like emma, I can't bring myself to watch the video. But I have never seen or heard tell of a skater at that level who missed every single one of her seven jumps in an LP.

brightphoton · Mar 11, 2012

noidont said:
Or, that Alissa is just having her period.

omg

dorispulaski · Mar 11, 2012

Mrs. P said:
By the way Doris, are you going all NYT style on us since reading that D/W article?

It amused me to see skaters written of in that style. But in this case, I want to be very respectful to both Ms. Flatt & Ms. Czisny, because they both deserve it, and we have not been properly respectful, always, here at GS.

chuckm · Mar 11, 2012

Wow, that video is spookily reminiscent of Alissa's GPF, only much worse. She appears to be experiencing pain in her landing foot, which explains why she has trouble with every jump. She seems to be favoring one leg in the footwork as well. She seems to be injured. If she is, she should withdraw ASAP so Agnes can be prepared to go to Nice. If Alissa is not injured, then we're in deep doo-doo.

R.D. · Mar 11, 2012

I just brought myself to watch that video. She struggled with EVERY SINGLE jump in the routine and took a nasty fall near the end. This has to be the worst I've seen her do apart from the 4-fall routine she did at a GP event some years ago.

Cause for alarm? Maybe, maybe not but USFS must, at a minimum, make some inquiries to Team Czisny about her fitness & readiness for Worlds and if she is injured, pull her out ASAP. We don't need a repeat of last year.

skateflower · Mar 11, 2012

Mathman said:
I think so, too.

Like emma, I can't bring myself to watch the video. But I have never seen or heard tell of a skater at that level who missed every single one of her seven jumps in an LP.

Go ahead and watch it. Actually it's not THAT bad. To me, it was better than what the score sheet showed. It could be worse.

Pepe Nero · Mar 11, 2012

noidont said:
Or, that Alissa is just having her period.

It shocks me that the moderators don't edit out vulgar, sexist claims like this. I have had far more innocuous things edited out by moderators here before.

I'm finding many people's responses on the question that started this thread bizarre. I agree that if Czisny is injured, she should withdraw. However, if Czisny were taken off the team (for any reason) by the USFSA, it would be Zawadski who would replace her. The USFSA cannot just pick someone they like who performed well in one recent competition (which seems to be the criterion among some posters here). I would just like to point out that Zawadski's season's best is about 157 (4CC), a mere 5 points higher than Czisny's season's worst (International Challenge). In fact, the IC event where Czisny "bombed" is the ONLY event all season where she earned a score lower than ANY score by Zawadski.

I don't know why anyone is suggesting Gold be sent instead of Czisny. Her junior programs are not long enough for a senior competition, and it's not as though she could just tack an extra 30 seconds of music on to her free skate.

The suggestion of Zhang as an alternate is equally puzzling to me. It's as if people have no sense of (recent) history. Zhang has been "bombing" in the same sense as Czisny (actually, Zhang at her worst is far worse) for the past 2 years! It's funny to me how some people on this forum will completely write a skater off after one bad competition, but if a skater competes well JUST ONCE, two years of terrible skates are utterly forgotten.

skateflower · Mar 11, 2012

Pepe Nero said:
! It's funny to me how some people on this forum will completely write a skater off after one bad competition, but if a skater competes well JUST ONCE, two years of terrible skates are utterly forgotten.

This is not true. Alissa had THREE bad performances in a row. She bombed GPF due to injury, she skated badly at Nationals, and this one. How many more opportunities should USFSA give her ?

Have you heard anything from Phil?

chuckm · Mar 11, 2012

Caroline Zhang had TWO good skates is a row: She won the pewter medal at Nationals and bronze at 4CC. I believe people are reacting to the huge improvement in her skating as well as Caroline's own positive attitude.

If Alissa withdraws, Agnes Zawadzki is first alternate and she will go to Worlds. Zhang is second alternate and Nagasu, third alternate. Since Gold is not listed as an alternate, she cannot replace Czisny.

Olympia · Mar 11, 2012

Mathman said:
I think so, too.

Like emma, I can't bring myself to watch the video. But I have never seen or heard tell of a skater at that level who missed every single one of her seven jumps in an LP.

The closest I can remember is Nancy Kerrigan in 1993 at Worlds, where she just imploded all over the place and came in I think fifth. This is when Oksana Baiul became the surprise (to herself especially) upset world champion. I still can't re-watch that program, either...though I have a vague memory of its being set to music from Beauty and the Beast.

Whatever's going on with Czisny, it sounds like even more than her usual self-psychout. I fear that I agree with those of you who suspect that the injury is wreaking havoc on her foot. If that's the case, it's a dreadful prospect for Worlds, because this year a healthy Alissa would have the chance of a halfway decent placement. She has a big decision to make. I know that Yuka and Jason won't let her do anything that is less than honorable. Their reputations as well as hers will be on the line.

On the other hand, if this meltdown was due to illness or abject fear, I hope Alissa is able to overcome it in the next few days.

This is agonizing, not just for the American skating program (as Richard Farina once said, we've been down so long it looks like up to us) but specifically for Alissa, a charming, hardworking skater who has so much to contribute to skating. Her spins cannot be equaled by anyone else, and if she's not at a competition, the artistic level goes down markedly.

skfan · Mar 11, 2012

Pepe Nero said:
It shocks me that the moderators don't edit out vulgar, sexist claims like this. I have had far more innocuous things edited out by moderators here before.

I'm finding many people's responses on the question that started this thread bizarre. I agree that if Czisny is injured, she should withdraw. However, if Czisny were taken off the team (for any reason) by the USFSA, it would be Zawadski who would replace her. The USFSA cannot just pick someone they like who performed well in one recent competition (which seems to be the criterion among some posters here). I would just like to point out that Zawadski's season's best is about 157 (4CC), a mere 5 points higher than Czisny's season's worst (International Challenge). In fact, the IC event where Czisny "bombed" is the ONLY event all season where she earned a score lower than ANY score by Zawadski.

I don't know why anyone is suggesting Gold be sent instead of Czisny. Her junior programs are not long enough for a senior competition, and it's not as though she could just tack an extra 30 seconds of music on to her free skate.

The suggestion of Zhang as an alternate is equally puzzling to me. It's as if people have no sense of (recent) history. Zhang has been "bombing" in the same sense as Czisny (actually, Zhang at her worst is far worse) for the past 2 years! It's funny to me how some people on this forum will completely write a skater off after one bad competition, but if a skater competes well JUST ONCE, two years of terrible skates are utterly forgotten.

czisny has only had one bad skate? then why the long post about her GPF skate a while ago--which was czisny's 'first' bad skate--that one? or ice challenge?

if skates were fairly scored, czisny's abysmal jump content, ugly-even-when-landed jumps that are crooked in the air, cheated on landings would receive appropriately abysmal scores. apparently the judges think they are at a beauty pageant and have been unable or unwilling to see.

for all the czisny fans lying in wait, at least kostner's jumps are HIGH, and not tilted in the air. kostner's skating skills (outside of spins) are light-years ahead of czisny.

Should Gracie or Caroline or Agnes or Mirai replace Alissa for Worlds?

R.D.

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

conga

skateflower

Match Penalty

merrywidow

emma

DianaSelene

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

noidont

Mathman

brightphoton

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

chuckm

R.D.

skateflower

Match Penalty

Pepe Nero

skateflower

Match Penalty

chuckm

Olympia

skfan

Similar threads

Connect with us