Opinion: Sato and Asada partnership is not working! | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Opinion: Sato and Asada partnership is not working!

Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Well, it's not as if her rivals' flip technique is all that superior. Take a look at Carolina's flip technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0MuZvJXtNY

You can see Carolina skids on her outer edge before switching to the inside edge at the last minute, too. AND she takes forever setting herself up, alot longer than Mao does.

But of course, she can still continue to improve. Reports are that Mao wants to do triple flip-triple loop this time so she may already have made some improvements.

Just because people do it a lot doesn't mean that I have to like it. For example, most men do the A spin, but I think it's really ugly.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
between those two performances posted i noticed some things:

with sato, she has more speed, better flow out of her jumps, faster spins, and seems to be enjoying it more. there are smiles the whole way through. there is more joy.

but i have to agree, she looks very frail compared to 2008. she lost a lot of muscle mass in her legs. hopefully she will be stronger next season, i know she's had it rough for a while.

Is this something that Mr. Sato would be likely to have some say in? Could she be urged to eat a different combination of foods, for instance, along with doing special exercises?
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I strongly disagree that Tarasova did anything to improve Mao's skating. Everything went backwards under Tarasova and the programs were dreadful, failing to capitalize on Mao's greatest strength - the otherworldly, etherial aspect of her skating.

I could not agree more. Tarasova is obviously a great coach but her choreography was so wrong for Mao. And I think they made a costly error trying to fix the lutz; instead she should have improved her 3F/3T which she did a season (or two) before joining Tarasova. I think Tarasova is a technical purist but it probably would have been better to leave her (f)lutz as is and take the edge call, because under Tarasova she really had no lutz at all and lost her 3/3s. She had some magnificent, ethereal programs under Yamada and her LP this season looks like a move towards what worked for her before.
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Is this something that Mr. Sato would be likely to have some say in? Could she be urged to eat a different combination of foods, for instance, along with doing special exercises?

She was frightfully thin around this time last year when she must have been in private agony over her mother's sickness, but I think she is okay now. There was a clip released of her trainer and Mr. Sato in discussion at the beginning of the off season and the trainer is heard saying that 'fortunately, not much muscle had been lost' and Mr. Sato saying that there needed to be sufficient muscle to withstand the gravitational pull but that there should be no unnecessary muscle which would only weigh her down. One thing different between the two clips is that Mao has grown taller by as much as five centimeters since 2008. So she is not necessarily thinner but taller.

When she was examined by a doctor when she was younger, the doctor predicted that she would grow to 172centimeters, so growth spurts during off season has been occuring even recently for her.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Mao is still a great skater but I miss her carefree etheral skating days. all her coaches have helped in some ways or at least helped maintained her talent but I agree Tat was not the right choreographer; not sure though Sato has improved for example her long program - thought it had a higher quality or ehteral quality last year.
 

Dodhiyel

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
My feeling about Mao Asada is that she has always had a magnificent talent for the ice. She has had a natural flow that is extraordinary, and a pure pleasure to watch. I have worried for some time about her striving for the triple axel, as I believe the focus on it has cost her dearly, overall. She does not need a triple axel to be a winner. I don't want that quest to hurt her career any more than I think it already has. I never spoke up about it before, but I just have to now. She is a wonderful skater, and she just has to believe in herself, and the rest should fall into place.
 

Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Mao is still a great skater but I miss her carefree etheral skating days. all her coaches have helped in some ways or at least helped maintained her talent but I agree Tat was not the right choreographer; not sure though Sato has improved for example her long program - thought it had a higher quality or ehteral quality last year.

Mr. Sato is not her choreographer. She has returned to Lori Nichol for some of her choreography and I hope this collaberation continues.
 

Snoopy15

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Here's my take on it:

Jumps: Mao's Salchow may not be as solid, but Mr. Sato has fixed her Flip. She might not have gotten an edge call in the past, but you can tell, before Mr. Sato, that her entrance into the Flip begins on a deep outside edge, and changes back to the inside edge before the take-off. Although there are no apparant problems with either technique, the current technique with her going straight back onto the inside edge is better. The first technique actually results in a loss of momentum going into the jump due to the changes in edge. Also, Mao's Lutz is still slightly flutzed, but at least it is more consistent. (However, it seems that Mr. Sato likes to teach the Lutz by having his students put both feet onto the ice before reaching back, like Kozuka. I wonder if a change in technique would yield a better result).

Speed: Mao's speed has declined, but it's due to the re-construction of the jumps. At this point in re-habillitating her jumps, she must take things one step at a time.

Spins: I believe the spins are better quality. I can see where the other opinions are coming from, but remember one very important detail: The 2008-2009 Mao competed under the COP where change of edge in spins were needed to gain levels. I believe some of you are confusing "Difficulty" with "Quality," particularly in comparison between the two systems.
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
It simply is not true that Mao's speed has declined. It has increased significantly. The person who put up this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Oqd7ALbCA&list=FLwFVeChXLw6uZo-K8ZmhUog&index=10&feature=plpp_video

says that whereas Mao used to take 9~10 second from the other end of the rink to do her 3f-2l at the other end, she now takes 7 seconds, a reduction of 2-3 seconds. With the lutz, she still takes 9 seconds to go from end to end of the rink but she has changed her approach path so that the distance is longer. And with her double-axel-triple-toe, if you look at the jump width she achieves, she obviously has very good speed going into that jump.

And I have already mentioned that she is now getting level-4 on her step sequence, and that is due to that fact that she can now maintain her speed to the very end (which was something that Shizuka said on television). If you look at the step sequence of other skaters, their steps often don't travel as much distance as Mao's and there is a reduction of speed in the middle of it.

So Mao clearly has better speed. Mr. Sato has stated on several occasions that 'nothing is as attractive as speed' and it was the first thing that he started working on with Mao. (But Mao skates so effortlessly and floaty-like that when you watch her on TV, she actually seems to be skating slower than before.)
 
Last edited:

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
It's the fact that she spends so much of the jump set up on an outside edge and then turns in at the last second. It feels like she doesn't have enough control of her edge. Basically, I would prefer it if she got to the inside edge then picked in instead of getting to the inside edge while she is picking in.

But she doesn't switch edge as she picks, she switches clearly to the inside and then picks in so I guess I don't have a problem with it. With any flip, the set up into it has to be straight which means the edges on the turns are necessairly flatter than if the skater was simply executing the turn on its own. If you do a three-turn into a flip then coaches often get you to do a rocker-like three turn meaning the exit edge is very flat/sometimes an outside edge to ensure that you are straight on the turn. The mohawk turn that Mao uses can be the same. The only slight issue with her is that she gets the inside edge exit to the mohawk, rocks to an outside edge (to assist in the check), gets back onto the inside edge, then picks and releases. I think it's fine as it is. I think it is comparable to the number of lutzses we see where the skater sets up backwards on the left foot rocks to an inside edge and then rocks to the outside as they reach back to pick to get a clean outside edge.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
It simply is not true that Mao's speed has declined. It has increased significantly. The person who put up this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Oqd7ALbCA&list=FLwFVeChXLw6uZo-K8ZmhUog&index=10&feature=plpp_video

says that whereas Mao used to take 9~10 second from the other end of the rink to do her 3f-2l at the other end, she now takes 7 seconds, a reduction of 2-3 seconds. With the lutz, she still takes 9 seconds to go from end to end of the rink but she has changed her approach path so that the distance is longer. And with her double-axel-triple-toe, if you look at the jump width she achieves, she obviously has very good speed going into that jump.

And I have already mentioned that she is now getting level-4 on her step sequence, and that is due to that fact that she can now maintain her speed to the very end (which was something that Shizuka said on television). If you look at the step sequence of other skaters, their steps often don't travel as much distance as Mao's and there is a reduction of speed in the middle of it.

So Mao clearly has better speed. Mr. Sato has stated on several occasions that 'nothing is as attractive as speed' and it was the first thing that he started working on with Mao. (But Mao skates so effortlessly and floaty-like that when you watch her on TV, she actually seems to be skating slower than before.)

I agree, I think she's faster as well. Obviously not as fast as she was in 2005 where she just seemed to soar around the rink, into and out of jumps, but her speed has improved in the last two seasons.

And I agree with Snoopy about quality vs. difficulty in her spins. That's what I meant by saying her positions are cleaner which, in turn, makes her spins look better to me. One thing I don't like is that second sideways leaning position in her layback; the angle of the twist and the position of the leg are ugly (reminds me of Liza T's deplorable layback).
 

skatesindreams

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Before we judge this season too harshly, let us remember that Mao has had to cope with the illness/death of her mother during these last months.
I'm sure that has had more to do with her "uneven" performances than "bad" coaching from Mr. Sato.

edited to reflect post, below.
 
Last edited:

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Actually she had a fairly consistent 3Sal under Tarasova and she didn't get a edge call on her lutz as far as I can remember, yes compared to last year she has improved but that is not really saying much she spent a whole year relearning her techniques only to come out with the same jump repertoire she had at the beginning... and I disagree that her spins are faster.

I'm pretty sure she was still flutzing, but CoP judges weren't as harsh back then because the system was still pretty new.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Mao was more than frequently getting edge calls during 2008-2009 season which made her insecure on the jump and led to a costly mistake in sp at 2009 Worlds. She, however, didn't get any edge calls during 2009-2010 because she never attempted lutz.
 

mikeko666

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Sato and Asada partnership is not working not because of Mr. Sato but because of Asada herself. The task given to Sato, fixing jump technique of a 20 years old elite skater from almost basic is just too much. He couldn't fix Yukari Nakano's wrapped leg alone. Asada's problems are much bigger and much more complicated. It took her months to find a new coach in Japan after 2010 Worlds because no one wanted the job. I guess Sato was begged by JSF to become her coach.

The biggest obstacle is Asada's obsession with 3A and 3F+3Lo. She wants to be able to jump like when she was 15 while Sato wants her to learn new correct technique. She tried 3A about 60 times in practices since she arrived at Nice, but much less 3Lz or 3S. Her flutz is not going anywhere, and she will never master correct 3Lz.

No coach can save her if that's not what she wants.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
watching Mao fail everytime she attemps the 3A
I really wish she would stop this obsession with the axel.
she could rack bigger points with easier jumps even a combo with huge +GOE
 
Top