2012 ISU World Team Trophy Predictions | Page 3 | Golden Skate

2012 ISU World Team Trophy Predictions

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Skaters are usually picked by world rankings not how challenging the competition may be. V/T will be doing Art on Ice and B/L are now ahead of K/S in the world ranking because of Euros and Worlds besides K/S will be Korea doing shows at that time so they would have been unavailable anyway.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Skaters are usually picked by world rankings not how challenging the competition may be. V/T will be doing Art on Ice and B/L are now ahead of K/S in the world ranking because of Euros and Worlds besides K/S will be Korea doing shows at that time so they would have been unavailable anyway.
I don't think you're allowed to skip the WTT to do shows. It's one thing for V/T to manufacture an excuse and claim they're injured or too exhausted or whatever and quite another to basically say, the rules don't apply to us. If that's what they're doing, the ISU will not be pleased with them. As far as I can tell, the only other medalists who aren't going are the injured Hanyu and S/S, whose country did not qualify.
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
You make it sound like they are paid employees of the ISU; they don't have to go to any competition, they are not obligated by any means. They can give any reason to miss it they want or no reason at all.

I would rather see V/T but a clean skate from B/L would be nice too.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I don't think you're allowed to skip the WTT to do shows ...

You make it sound like they are paid employees of the ISU; they don't have to go to any competition, they are not obligated by any means. They can give any reason to miss it they want or no reason at all.

Buttercup is correct. This has been discussed before, but here is an excerpt from the ISU announcement re WTT (emphasis added):
"Any Skater/Couple from a Qualified ISU Member, who placed within the first ten (10) places at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2012 and is ranked in the ISU World Standings among the best 2 Lady Single Skaters, best 2 Men Single Skaters, the best Pair Skating couple and the best Ice Dance couple of his/her/their respective Qualified ISU Member, if this Skater/Couple elects in advance of the ISU World Team Trophy not to participate in the ISU World Team Trophy (for whatever reason), he/she/they will not be permitted to participate in any other competitions, shows, and exhibitions from Monday noon (April 2, 2012) after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2012, during the ISU World Team Trophy, and until April 23, 2012.
In addition, depending on the circumstances, the concerned Skater/Couple and Members may be subject to sanctions in accordance with Rule 136, paragraph 6 of the General Regulations."

The ISU is the governing body of the sport, right? And the skaters have received prize money from ISU competitions throughout the season, right?
So makes sense to me that the ISU does have leverage over the skaters, and has the authority to impose rules on them.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
You make it sound like they are paid employees of the ISU; they don't have to go to any competition, they are not obligated by any means. They can give any reason to miss it they want or no reason at all.

The ISU would like to think of them as emplyees. :)

Actually, although skaters can do as they please, as Golden411 posted, the ISU does have control over which skaters are allowed to compete in ISU events like the Grand Prix, Worlds, and the Olympics. The rule is that if a top ten skater does not skate at this event for any reason, then that skater cannot do any shows or exhibitions during the time period that the World Team Trophy is going on (or between Worlds and the Team Trophy). What the ISU holds over the skaters' heads if they do it anyway, is that the skaters can't go to worlds next year, or something like that. The ISU can also punish the skaters' national federation in various ways if the federation cannot coerce the skaters to comply.

Whether they would enforce this rule or not, I don't know. In the past Michelle Kwan and Evgeny Plushenko were both warned about skipping Grand Prix events. In one case Plushenko was scheduled to do an exhibition in St. Petersburg, but the ISU/Russian Federation made him withdraw and just send a tape of himn skating to be played over the jumbotron.

In Michelle's case, the cheesefest that she was scheduled for took place just after the Grand Prix Final, so she was technically OK and the ISU did not pursue the matter.

This is important to the ISU because it means money. The Japanese television networks that are paying out millions of dollars for this event will not be happy if the ISU does not send the top skaters.
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
You make it sound like they are paid employees of the ISU; they don't have to go to any competition, they are not obligated by any means. They can give any reason to miss it they want or no reason at all.
Golden411 basically explained this while I was typing my post, but the brief version is that the ISU is the governing body for skating, and you either play by their rules or you don't play at all. V/T are certainly allowed to miss the WTT - but they are not allowed to skate in shows between April 2nd and April 23rd. As you can see, the WTT announcement is very clear on this.

Frankly, if V/M and D/W and Patrick Chan and presumably most of the other medalists can all head out to Japan, I fail to say why V/T are so special that they should get a pass.
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
The ISU would like to think of them as emplyees. :)

Actually, although skaters can do as they please, as Golden41 posted, the ISU does have control over which skaters are allowed to compete in ISU events like the Grand Prix, Worlds, and the Olympics. The rule is that if a top ten skater does not skate at this event for any reason, then that skater cannot do any shows or exhibitions during the time period that the World Team Trophy is going on (or between Worlds and the Team Trophy). What the ISU holds over the skaters' heads if they do it anyway, is that the skaters can't go to worlds next year, or something like that. The ISU can also punish the skaters' national federation in various ways if the federation cannot coerce the sdkaters to comply.

Whether they would enforce this rule or not, I don't know. In the past Michelle Kwan and Evgeny Plushenko were both warned about skipping Grand Prix events. In one case Plushenko was schedule to do an exhibition in St. Petersburg, but the ISU/Russian Federation made him withdraw and jus send a tape of himn skating to be played over the jumpbotron.

In Michelle's case, the cheesefest that she was scheduled for took plce just after the Grand Prix Final, so she was technically OK andfd the IDSU did not pursue the matter.

This is important to the ISU because it means money. The Japanese television networks that are paying out millions of dollars for this event will not be happy if the ISU does not send the top skaters.

You're right they can't skate while the completion is going on (or during a certain time frame) but they can't make a skater go.

I'm not sure how they can get away with not going yet Plushenko got in trouble for missing worlds in 2010 when he was really hurt but that’s between them and their federation.

I have no doubt it will be a sold out crowd in the arena but TV wise, I would think it would be better to have top skaters there. In 2009 many at worlds had no idea it was even going on but now they had plenty of notice and of who was even going to go. Only some skaters should would be in limbo.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I think the show that Plush was forbidden to do the last minute was Prague AOI or sth close to it, not RUssia :)

I m surprised Adelina got in the team, I didnt know she could anyway, but at this point she is a great choice, thats a slap for Polina K. though...

USA team is out?
 

RemyRose

YOLO
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Country
United-States
I think the show that Plush was forbidden to do the last minute was Prague AOI or sth close to it, not RUssia :)

I m surprised Adelina got in the team, I didnt know she could anyway, but at this point she is a great choice, thats a slap for Polina K. though...

USA team is out?

I think that's more of a slap in Makarova face. Stick a fork in her, she's done.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
It's a slap in the face of Bobrova / Soloviev, too. They are 6th in world standings and were 7th at Worlds. And they are Russian champions, and silver medallists at Euros two years running.

I&K were 5th at Worlds, but are 10th in world standings.

Does anyone know who the judges & tech panel are going to be for dance at the WTT?
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
It's a slap in the face of Bobrova / Soloviev, too.
Did you read the Morosov interview post worlds? He is talking about I/K and that he is happy with their placement cause it showed which is truly the Russian No1 dance team right now outside russia, emphasizing the fact that there wasnt a russian judge in ice dance pannel and that helped. Maybe RF got the note?
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
... Does anyone know who the judges & tech panel are going to be for dance at the WTT?

Hi, Doris! I think your question was about specific names, and I have no clue about those. :eek:hwell:
For those who want to analyze what the WTT announcement says about the judging panel, see below. (I know that many have been debating the Worlds dance outcome - e.g., whether the absence of the US among judges and technical panel made any difference or not. But I don't know if anything here from the ISU is noteworthy ... my eyes are glazing over as I try to process what this means.)

13. PANEL OF JUDGES
The panel of Judges will in principle consist of 9 ISU Judges of different ISU Members in each discipline. Judges must have the qualification ISU Judge. Each participating Member may send 1 ISU Judge for Single & Pair Skating plus 1 ISU Judge for Ice Dance, total 2 Judges per participating Member. The 2 Judges must be able to cover all disciplines, i.e. Single Skating, Pair Skating and Ice Dance.
To complete the panels of 9 Judges, up to 8 additional ISU Judges (up to 4 additional Judges qualified to judge both Single & Pair Skating as well as up to 4 additional Judges for Ice Dance) will be invited from other and different ISU Members. These Additional needed Judges from Members not participating with Skaters in the ISU World Team Trophy will be selected by the ISU on the basis of the official ISU World Standings valid after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2012 (held at the end of March 2012), i.e. among at least the 4 ISU Member with the highest placed Singles Skaters/Pair Skating couple, Ice Dance couple regardless of the discipline, in the current World Standings subject to availability of the necessary qualified Judges.
The composition of the panel of Judges including seating order and random draw for each segment will be drawn on site.
 

DianaSelene

Medalist
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
I'm really surprised that Gachinski is going but not Tukt since I saw videos of Liza a few weeks ago and she looked pretty good while Gachinski is not doing well right now. And I'm REALLY surprised Sotnikova will go. I'm happy that she'll have another chance this year. I wonder why Sot is going instead of Liza... ISU didn't let her or Mishin decided to let her rest some more or Russia just decided to give Adelina another try? :confused2:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Today (Thursday) is the deadline for submitting the names of the team members to the ISU. So I assume that the USFSA knows who it will be, but they are not telling us yet.

I think they want to surprise us. :yes:
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
hopefully the US Team will be

Abbott, Miner
Zhang , Wagner alternate: Zawadzki
D/W
D/C

I think that's more of a slap in Makarova face. Stick a fork in her, she's done.

:rofl:

a slap in the face for both Makarova and Bobrova/Soloviev
 

Lucky Star

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
I'm really surprised that Gachinski is going but not Tukt since I saw videos of Liza a few weeks ago and she looked pretty good while Gachinski is not doing well right now. And I'm REALLY surprised Sotnikova will go. I'm happy that she'll have another chance this year. I wonder why Sot is going instead of Liza... ISU didn't let her or Mishin decided to let her rest some more or Russia just decided to give Adelina another try? :confused2:
There were rumors that Mishin didn't want any of his students to go, he later changed his mind about Gachinski (or RFSF convinced him), but not about Liza, guess they decided to finish the season for her. And Adelina has higher placement at World Standing than Liza anyway
 

kalle

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
I wonder if it is not going to be Wagner and Zawadzki.

As per their twitter they are trying to meet up in California next week, a stop before Tokyo?
 
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