Alissa Czisny plans to compete next season | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Alissa Czisny plans to compete next season

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
alissa is high enough up to get 2 gp events. she might event get skate america.

should she compete yes, can she put it behind her--lets see--maybe yes, maybe no.4 times world--14th, 11th, to 5th to 22nd. 3 times fc--9th, 7th, 5th.

will they still cheat for alissa absolutely.

no sure if zhang will even get one.I think she will 24-25 in world rankings when come out. (not sure if they still want her despite the high LIP SERVICE) they gave her this year.

with WTT i am not sure her score will hold up at least 7 of the skaters have top 13 scores this season and 3 are behind here all went to worlds and jr. worlds.

alissa does well in beginning it is ending i am getting worried about. i am taking a wait and see approach to alissa next year.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I would rather USFS judge Nationals fairly and justify keeping Czisny off the team despite her placement as opposed to intentionally holding her down. 4 trips, only once in top 10 (25%) is a pretty strong argument against her...

Certainly the number one priority is to judge U.S. Nationals fairly.

But as for "keeping her off the world team because she has not been successful in the past," that is kind of a slippery slope that I don't think the USFSA will want to start down.

The criteria for who is selected for the world team is written down pretty concretely. Placement at U.S. Nationals is the most important (historically almost the only factor), and the other things listed are placement at other international events like the Grand Prix, Four Continents, and last year's worlds. I suppose they could weigh 2012 Worlds heavily against Alissa (although no other U.S. lady except Ashley got ahead of her in terms of Worlds placement this year), but going back years in the past and saying she had four chances and messed up three out of four times is not in the rules.

Plus, who will be making all of these decisions about who to place on the team and who to yank. Pat St. Peter? Doug Williams? For better or for worse the USFSA has always prided itself on being a rules-oriented organization, not one governed by the whim of the individuals in positions of authority.

One reason why traditionally U.S. nationals held such a prominent place in selecting the world team is that every skater has a chance to qualify and compete. If we put more emphasis on other events like the Grand Prix, remember that those Grand Prix assignments are given out by the same federation committee that has jurisdiction over the team selection. We would not want a situation where the federation big-wigs decided in advance who they wanted to send to worlds, then skewed everything all season to make sure it turned out that way.

Alissa is #5 on the ISU World Ranking list and #8 on the Seasons Best list. She is not guaranteed two GP events, but she still may get two invitations, even if it's because a federation is hoping she won't do well....

I would think that would be irresistible for a federation who has a pretty good girl that they are trying to promote. Alissa is highly ranked, popular with audiences in spite of everything, a good draw, but "I know I can beat her!" :)
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Alissa is loveable and I started a consolation "be kind" thread. I am surprised she wants to keep competing when she cannot do well. I agree she should not have placed second at Nationals. Caroline deserved it and, no Alissa should not ever get 2nd again with her 2-3 triple landed cleanly. I don't think it will happen, Gold is coming. Zhang may stil have that 3L3L and she deserved higher marks, even Rachael would have done better. Agnes and of course Ashley will be fighting for top spot. Alissa is a great person, beauitiful skater, if slow but is not a competitor. That is the fact, no cruelty intended.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Alissa is loveable and I started a consolation "be kind" thread. I am surprised she wants to keep competing when she cannot do well. I agree she should not have placed second at Nationals. Caroline deserved it and, no Alissa should not ever get 2nd again with her 2-3 triple landed cleanly. I don't think it will happen, Gold is coming. Zhang may stil have that 3L3L and she deserved higher marks, even Rachael would have done better. Agnes and of course Ashley will be fighting for top spot. Alissa is a great person, beauitiful skater, if slow but is not a competitor. That is the fact, no cruelty intended.

Seriously! That's the problem at Nats. For some miraculous reason, Alissa got ridiculous PCS compare to the rest of the girls' when her programs are probably the emptiest of them all. The whole time, she was stroking around, set up for jumps, then stroking around. Spins aren't transition. Whatever happened to fair judging? Her TR should be in the 4s if everyone else got 5-6-7.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The criteria for who is selected for the world team is written down pretty concretely. Placement at U.S. Nationals is the most important (historically almost the only factor), and the other things listed are placement at other international events like the Grand Prix, Four Continents, and last year's worlds.

And at "last year's world's", she placed 22nd after two disastrous skates. That should be considered a strike. She wasn't even offered 4CCs but historically she has not done well at that event either.

I think Chuckm nailed it as far as Nationals goes, though. They've got to mark her fairly, and while that means not holding her down, it ALSO means not holding her up, either...
 

b-man

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
.

no sure if zhang will even get one.I think she will 24-25 in world rankings when come out. (not sure if they still want her despite the high LIP SERVICE) they gave her this year.

Well, if Zhang got one after a poor year, she deserves two after the very good year she just had.

I think eight women got assignments last year. If Gold and possibly Hicks turn senior, and no one retires, many will receive only one assignment this coming year.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Well, if Zhang got one after a poor year, she deserves two after the very good year she just had.

I think eight women got assignments last year. If Gold and possibly Hicks turn senior, and no one retires, many will receive only one assignment this coming year.

Yes, the assignments are going to be VERY interesting no doubt but I don't think (for better or worse) that Alissa is going to lose two. Mirai very well may. Rachael almost surely will. Joelle Forte had one this year, I doubt she'll get even one next year. Christina Gao had 2, and will probably have to settle for 1. Agnes may get 2. I think Caroline did not get even 1, this coming year she will get at least 1 probably 2. It's going to be really fascinating.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think Zhang was the host pick at SA last year along with Forte.

Probably a safe bet to say at least Wagner will get 2. Czisny and Zawadzki will probably get 2. Zhang MAY get 2 if she gets the host pick + another event. Not sure about the others.
 

Simoncat

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Dear Alissa: WE LOVE YOUR SKATING NO MATTER WHAT. :)

This part was interesting:



I wondered about that. The USFSA is very loyal to their champions, even when they don't perform up to par.

This makes it seem like Jason Dungjen made the call, not Alissa herself. She seems to have great confidence in her coaching team.

I think the US federation picked exactly the team it wanted at the competition. If anything,she,and others were offerred the alternate position,and the coach turned it down as a face saving gesture.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
And at "last year's world's", she placed 22nd after two disastrous skates. That should be considered a strike.

It is hard to say. Usually this means that if skater A got third at worlds and skater B got eighth, then that would be a point in favor of sending A over B next year. A bad skate versus no skate -- I don't know how they would factor that in.

It does seem like the USFSA is in a period of re-evaluating its long-held views on world team selections. Personally, I am not sure we need this change because the figure skating world already has the Russian, French,, and Canadian federations, if that sort of thing is what we want.

She wasn't even offered 4CCs but historically she has not done well at that event either.

Again, history is not part of the published criteria. I am just afraid we are selling our pure, innocent, naive soul to the Machiavellian devil here. ;)

Simoncat said:
I think the US federation picked exactly the team it wanted at the competition. If anything, she, and others were offerred the alternate position, and the coach turned it down as a face saving gesture.

I think you are probably right about that. Patricia St. Peter started beating the Gracie Gold drum even before U.S. Nationals, saying that the uSFSA might even send Gracie to senior worlds.

Still, I think it is true that USFS does have a history of giving continued support to their skaters even when the going gets tough. Rachael Flatt was supposedly in the USFSA doghouse after 2011 worlds, but she still got two Grand Prix assignments.

The other thing that struck an odd note in Alissa's interview was when she said, "I love to compete." Gosh, she looks like it is pure torture to her.
 

RemyRose

YOLO
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Country
United-States
Still, I think it is true that USFS does have a history of giving continued support to their skaters even when the going gets tough. Rachael Flatt was supposedly in the USFSA doghouse after 2011 worlds, but she still got two Grand Prix assignments, that she rightfully earn by placing in the top 12 at that year's worlds.

fixed :biggrin:
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Ashley is seeded and guaranteed two GP invitations. I'm sure USFS will ask her if she wants SA.

Gold is #12 on the Seasons Best list and should get at least one GP event for her silver JW medal. I'd be surprised if USFS doesn't give Gracie SA if she doesn't get a second invitation.

Caroline Zhang medaled at 4CC and is #9 on the Seasons Best list AND is #19 in World Ranking. Mirai is #11 on the SB list and #9 in World Ranking. These two should get at least one GP invitation and maybe two.

Rachael is #15 on the WR but #38 on SB. She might get one GP. Maybe.

Zawadzki is #25 on both lists and is guaranteed no invitations, although I think she might get one initial invite.

Gao and Lam rank even lower and may be out of luck this year with respect to the GP.


Even if Courtney Hicks takes the Senior test and plans to compete at US Nationals as a Senior, she'd be better off competing in the JGP again as there is no way she'd get a GP invitation---she is #30 on the SB list and #81 in WR.

I wonder if USFS will send some of Flatt, Gao, Lam and Zawadzki (or anyone else without two invitations) to the Senior B that is being held in the US in September and use the results of that event to decide who will get a SA host spot.
 
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silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I think Zawadzki and Gao will probably each get 1 GP, and then a host spot at SA could get one of them up to 2 events. As for Lam, I think her SB is higher than Gao's, but she's been on a downward trend since the start of the season. Maybe she will do JGP again? I think she could be out of luck regarding the GP, though I could be wrong.

What is the deal with men? I think Jeremy is the only one garaunteed 2? Miner, Rippon, Dornbush, Farris, Brown are all garaunteed 1 each, but who from this pool will get 2? Miner I assume, Farris and Brown probably if they even move up, Rippon maybe, Dornbush maybe not because he's had a rough season (not making the top 24 for SB) and just makes the cutoff for WR at number 23. Armin isn't even garaunteed 1 but could get 1 anyways. What is the deal with Lysacek and Weir if they come back? Also is there any hopes for the likes of Aaron, Messing, Razzano, Carriere, etc? I assume Mroz won't be doing GP.
 

RemyRose

YOLO
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Country
United-States
At this moment Gao and Lam are not guaranteed 1 gp. They are not ranked in the top 24 in neither season best or world ranking. Neither is Agnes by the way. So to give them a host pick could hypothetically mean no second assignment for Nagasu, Zhang, Gold, or Czisny. But I think Czisny is high enough to get a second one elsewhere.
 
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silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
At this moment Gao and Lam are not guaranteed 1 gp. They are not ranked in the top 24 in neither season best or world ranking.

Alright thanks for the update. I believe the same is actually true of Zawadzki? Who is highest on those lists? I still think they may be able to get 1 invite.

ETA:
Agnes' WR is 25, Christina 29, Vanessa 56

For SB Agnes is 25, Vanessa 26, Christina 29

So I'd say pecking order for GP invites, though none of the girls are guaranteed, would be Agnes, Christina, Vanessa. Which is why I think Agnes and Christina will be able to squeak out 1 invite each and Vanessa may be better off doing JGP again if she does not want to wind up empty handed in regards to fall internationals, although if she wants to move up and doesn't get a GP she could get Nebelhorn, Finlandia, or Ice Challenge.
 
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RemyRose

YOLO
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Country
United-States
Here is the season best list for the women :)

http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2011-12/sbtslto.htm

For the men, I don't think neither Evan nor Johnny can get two, only host pick, neither are ranked in the top 24 of season best or world rankings. Evan could have used his status as a comeback skater for 2 guaranteed spots but used it up last year.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
It does seem like the USFSA is in a period of re-evaluating its long-held views on world team selections.

IMHO, they must do so if they wish to remain relevant. Right now, the US is mediocre in singles/pairs and is only doing well in ice dance.

At least in the men, you've got Weir and Lysacek possibly looking to save the day. But in the ladies, the current crop is on its own. The top 2/3 is not clear cut from the rest of the field like it used to be. There needs to be more latitude in selecting the team than just picking 1 and 2. Otherwise, you'll just get the same results until another Kwan-like skater(s) comes along- and we all know that's not happening for at least another 20-30 years (statistically speaking, sort of). Things have changed with this new scoring system. USFS, I believe, is now finding out the hard way that Nationals really isn't the be-all end-all of US skating, and shouldn't be. I think our world-class skaters are peaking at the wrong time- since USFS essentially sets up nationals as world team trials, you have skaters bringing their best there so they can GET on the team, but they can't repeat the same level of excellence once they're ON the team. If you guarantee only the champion a spot on the world/Olympic team and pick spots 2 and/or 3 based on overall performance that season, it will take some pressure off, I think and may encourage the contenders to aim to peak at worlds instead.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I think our world-class skaters are peaking at the wrong time- since USFS essentially sets up nationals as world team trials, you have skaters bringing their best there so they can GET on the team, but they can't repeat the same level of excellence once they're ON the team.

I just don't buy this. Yes, I think the criteria should change to include more competitive results but to say that skaters can't skate well at Worlds because they did so at Nationals is just a lame excuse for those skaters who just can't handle the competitive pressure. These are elite athletes who are asked to skate great at 2 events: Nationals and Worlds (or Olympics if that applies).

As far as "taking the pressure off"... why? We need skaters who can handle the pressure at Worlds. This competition helps us earn important spots for upcoming events. Whether you decide assignments at one event, or two events, or three events, I don't think it necessarily relieves pressure because now they have to have their programs in tip top condition early in the season. Maybe no one wants to do Skate America because it's too early and this is now a deciding event to determine if they make the World team.

To me, the solution is to take a holistic approach and just put the decision in the hands of the USFSA to determine what skaters are going to advance the goals of the organization. Yes, some of us will disagree with the decisions (ex: Armin not making 4CC) but at least they don't try to disguise it as some completely merit-based process, which it never will be.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I just don't buy this. Yes, I think the criteria should change to include more competitive results but to say that skaters can't skate well at Worlds because they did so at Nationals is just a lame excuse for those skaters who just can't handle the competitive pressure. These are elite athletes who are asked to skate great at 2 events: Nationals and Worlds (or Olympics if that applies).

As far as "taking the pressure off"... why? We need skaters who can handle the pressure at Worlds...

Point well taken, and I agree about needing to handle the pressure at worlds. However, I would also argue that we need consistent skaters as well. Looking at ONLY National results does not promote consistent skaters- just the ones who happened to lay it down one night. Sure, they rose to the occasion HERE but there's no real indication they can do it again (i.e. was it a fluke?). Of course, in the case there is no past evidence, you could use discretion, or try a skateoff session e.g. at 4CC.

Whether you decide assignments at one event, or two events, or three events, I don't think it necessarily relieves pressure because now they have to have their programs in tip top condition early in the season. Maybe no one wants to do Skate America because it's too early and this is now a deciding event to determine if they make the World team.

It's the BIG PICTURE that counts here. And of course, you tier it in order of importance. A Nationals skate, or a GPF qualification/skate of course would hold more weight than a SA skate, but this allows one to see the trajectory of the skater (are they getting better? worse?).
 
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