Alissa Czisny plans to compete next season | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Alissa Czisny plans to compete next season

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Second, AC is the best figure skater America has had since Sasha Cohen.

:confused: Well, it certainly isn't showing in the results. Cohen has been to the Olympics 2x (1 medal), 2 world silvers and a world bronze. AFAIK after 2003 she always finished on the podium somewhere. Show me Czisny's World or Olympic medal and then perhaps we can talk. (oops, can't!)

IMO this title might go to Meissner but of course she's done too.

And I am eager to see these boards next year when Ashley Wagner and poor Gracie Gold (with the insane expectations already upon her) "disappoint" us, one of the two of them almost inevitably.

Nothing is a done deal which is why I dislike all this early hyping of Gold. It's only setting her up for spectacular disappointment the MOMENT she has an off-night. I already said this earlier but I'm just not seeing how she'll make the type of impact say, Yuna Kim or Mao Asada did when they came out, winning world medals right out of the gate. Of course, it COULD happen, but you know, there's no guarantee she'll even be on next year's world team with Wagner and possibly Zhang/Nagasu in the hunt.

It may very well be true [Czisny] just isn't tough enough for elite competition and the pressure that comes with being a favorite. Her Worlds programs were among the all time worst for someone with that amount of talent. It's perfectly acceptable to question whether she should have gone

Absolutely. Whether Czisny fans like it or not, her performance here was historic- I mean, it will be remembered as one of the biggest meltdowns in history. Especially considering that a solid short would have put her in medal contention!
 

geoffil

Spectator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
I wish I knew (I wish we all knew) what the issue at Worlds and the Challenge Cup was. I think it was more than nerves, and more than AC's alleged fear of competition. She's dealt with those issue before; no reason those would have caused such an issue. Seems like there must have been more to it.

I agree 100%. Something else had to be going on for AC to have had such a bad skate. I don't know what the issue was, but someone with that much talent and experience could not have had so many falls without some other issue. My guess is an injury because her coaches didn't seem shocked at her performance. I wonder if she had to skate to keep the 2nd spot for next year and couldn't withdraw. Maybe soon we will get the details.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I agree. The meltdown was so complete that it seems to have another underlying reason. Normally I don't like to pry into things, but because Alissa was representing the U.S. at Worlds, and her skating was to have an effect, one way or the other, on the composition of the U.S. world team for 2013, I think we're entitled at least to speculate on the possibilities.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I agree. The meltdown was so complete that it seems to have another underlying reason. Normally I don't like to pry into things, but because Alissa was representing the U.S. at Worlds, and her skating was to have an effect, one way or the other, on the composition of the U.S. world team for 2013, I think we're entitled at least to speculate on the possibilities.

The bolded statement above is what I think some of Czisny's biggest fans/defenders just aren't seeing. It's not just HER we're talking about here- it's USFS, the 2013 world team composition and even how the 2013 team does ultimately. Not to dwell too much on the 3rd spot (since there's no guarantee another skater would have gotten it) but there are times where the "3rd US lady", with the pressure off, has had the highest result at Worlds/Olys. The most dramatic example is perhaps S Hughes in SLC. I believe Lysacek was the 3rd US man in 2009 and he ended up winning the World championship. Imagine if we didn't have that 3rd spot...you could wipe those results right off the map.

With the depth in US ladies we could really use a 3rd spot. Even Russia was able to squeeze out 3 spots with so-called has-beens Makarova and Leonova. With that in mind, I think it is definitely fair game to question USFS' world team selection policy and seriously ask if they should make changes to it for the future.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
:confused: Well, it certainly isn't showing in the results. Cohen has been to the Olympics 2x (1 medal), 2 world silvers and a world bronze. AFAIK after 2003 she always finished on the podium somewhere.

Which, of course, is not relevant to the question of whether Alissa is the best we've had since Cohen.

AC (alternating current?) is the first two-time U.S. champion since Michelle Kwan. She is also the first Grand Prix Finals winner since...Sasha Cohen. :)

But yeah, we have to go with 2006 World Champion Kimmie. Here career was brief, but she was really good there for a hot minute.

Pepe Nero said:
And I am eager to see these boards next year when Ashley Wagner and poor Gracie Gold (with the insane expectations already upon her) "disappoint" us, one of the two of them almost inevitably.

I know. The problem is, we are grasping at one straw after another. Six months ago posts about Ashley (if any) were, she's an OK skater but lacks the talent to make it to the big time. Now (for the moment) she's projected for a podium spot at Sochi. Woe unto her if she falters on the Grand Prix circuit next year.

Well, at least we can say this. In terms of placement at worlds, Ashley is the best skater we've had since Kimmie. :)
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Which, of course, is not relevant to the question of whether Alissa is the best we've had since Cohen.

She isn't. You have to go with meissner- the ONLY US lady with a world medal since Cohen (and a 4CC championship, which Czisny also lacks). Even Ashley Wagner has arguably matched Czisny (if not surpassed her) in a single season- a 4CC championship, and 4th at worlds (Czisny's highest finish was 5th). Yes, Czisny has GPF, but I'd say currently, 4CC trumps that as it's a major championship. Really, the only thing Czisny has going for her is that additional US championship (one that she happened to back into, perhaps).
 

RemyRose

YOLO
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Country
United-States
Second, AC is the best figure skater America has had since Sasha Cohen.

No she isn't; she has no international championship medals [i.e. Junior Worlds, 4CC, World medals]

as noted on FSU:

Kimmie--junior world medalist, world champ, 4cc champ
Ashley--4CC champ and 4th at worlds [the highest since 2007], Junior World Bronze x2
Nagasu--4CC medal, Junior World silver and bronze
Zhang--4CC medal x2, Junior World gold and silver x2
Flatt--Junior World gold
Zawadzki--Junior World silver and bronze
Gold--Junior World silver

Katy Taylor [4CC gold], Bebe Liang [4CC bronze], and Emily Hughes [junior world bronze medal and a 4CC silver medal] were also mention to have more international success than Czisny.

GP medals aren't championship medals by the way. Her best title is GPF gold.
So Meissner is the most decorated followed by Wagner, then everybody else.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
While I always appreciated Michelle's competitiveness, the US ladies now really make me see how good Sasha was. Yes, she was never clean and not a very good "skater", but she never gave up on programs after mistakes like Alissa, Nagasu, and others. I see that same look of intensity when I watch Ashley skate, which is why I'm happy her results are starting to reflect her talent. I don't think she will win a World title, but I think Ashley will end up as most decorated of this group of current US senior ladies (Gracie excluded).
 

Selene

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
I must be one of the few US skating fans who doesn’t see the supposed immense talent that Czisny possesses. She has her strengths – her spinning & elegance on the ice. But her speed and jump technique are subpar. Even at her best, Czisny’s jumps are small and barely rotated. She rarely skates a long program without at least one fall. I think it is impossible for her to be consistent with her jump technique. So, her meltdown at Worlds wasn’t surprising to me. I didn’t expect her to perform THAT badly, but after her Challenge Cup performance, I was expecting a disaster.

I think the US ladies will always remain second tier as long as skaters like Czisny are promoted internationally. We need skaters who can consistently land difficult jumps and jump combos (which is why so many people are excited about Gracie Gold.) So, I am hoping that Czisny is never placed on a US Worlds team again. I’m sure she’s a lovely person, but as a figure skater, I don’t think she’s particularly talented. I don’t even find her artistic, as her programs are empty and marred by her stalking her jumps.
 
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Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
The comparable epic meltdown to Czisny's that I can think of is Oda's at Worlds 2010, each preceded by a foretelling event. Here are their career competition results: Oda, and Czisny. No matter how one looks at it, the numbers 28 and 22 stand out like huge purple sore thumbs in their respective fact sheets. As the cause of Oda's disastrous skate later revealed, there is most likely an out of the ordinary reason for Czisny's 2012 fiasco as well whether or not it will ever be made known to us. Oda's meltdown was complete at the SP when he popped every jump, saving himself possibly even bigger embarrassment at the LP like Czisny. Give her credit for attempting all her jumps instead of aborting them to avoid the falls.

A sore thumb is a sore thumb, however painful. It's not terminal cancer. Oda returned to his normal form, a top tier skater succumbing frequently to his usual weakness, a COP math deficiency in his DNA. Czisny should return to form as well, seeing her even/odd number season of good fortune is coming up. It will be her usual weakness(es) she needs to overcome, so the fight (I hate to use the word struggle) continues.

As always, I don't write anybody off or judge them to be finished or to be the future legend before any real international achievement. The system is there for each athlete to qualify for events, based on the performances on the qualifying events. It is really up to Alissa to continue and to bring it on the ice if she so wishes, not internet fans who have not contributed to any significant extent financially or physically to her years of hard work and sacrifices. It is not our asses that falls hard on the ice on the daily basis in training nor at competitions for the world to see.
 

Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Not to mention 2010 is also the year Sarah Meier failed to qualify for the long program as well! She came back to win Euros :)
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Yes but Alissa regularly bombs, not as bad as Worlds but 2 falls in a program is never surprising. It was pretty much a forgone conclusion that she wouldn't finish in the top 10 after her performance in the Challenge Cup. I think she can still skate a clean program, but as far as a "come-back" to where she regularly performs well, I don't see that happening because she was never very consistent in the first place.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Exactly. As I said before, her career is a roller-coaster- a surge back to the top won't be a shocker- but then it comes crashing down again! (hint: this has happened THREE times at Worlds. Some of you guys seriously want to take a chance on her AGAIN for Sochi spots? Unbelievable)
 
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Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Exactly. As I said before, her career is a roller-coaster- a surge back to the top won't be a shocker- but then it comes crashing down again! (hint: this has happened THREE times at Worlds. Some of you guys seriously want to take a chance on her AGAIN for Sochi spots? Unbelievable)

I don't think Alissa placing in the top 2 at Nats is going to happen. (And I agree that I wouldn't like that kind of risk either when Olympic spots are on the line!) But I do think it's possible for her to win another GP.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
I think the US ladies will always remain second tier as long as skaters like Czisny are promoted internationally.

when was the last time a US lady won the Grand Prix Final? Alissa 2010. before that (correct me if I am wrong) we have to go all the way back to Sasha Cohen in 2002-3.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
when was the last time a US lady won the Grand Prix Final? Alissa 2010. before that (correct me if I am wrong) we have to go all the way back to Sasha Cohen in 2002-3.

Playing DA, when was the last time a US lady had a World finish as poor as 22nd? We'd have to go back to the 90s, right?

_______________________________

isn't Wagner's 4CC win the first ISU championship victory since Meissner in 2007? If we have to pick skaters to "promote", I'd say Wagner has earned it this season...and we'll have to see about any others (including Gold, no matter how badly many want to anoint her)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
R.D. said:
Playing DA, when was the last time a US lady had a World finish as poor as 22nd? We'd have to go back to the 90s, right?

All that's true. But will I ever turn my back on Alissa? Will I ever abandon hope of happier days ahead?

Many a new day will dawn...

Many a red sun will set...

Many a blue moon will shine
before I do!
♫♪


;)
 
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Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
If Alissa qualifies to go again, she goes. If she doesn't, she doesn't. Why do fans think it's up to whatever they say? Maybe a foolproof selection protocol to prevent her should be concocted to lobby the USFSA with.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
If Alissa qualifies to go again, she goes. If she doesn't, she doesn't. Why do fans think it's up to whatever they say? Maybe a foolproof selection protocol to prevent her should be concocted to lobby the USFSA with.

This is kind of how I feel about the whole thing. It's no secret that I am an Alissa fan, but if she competes or does not is her choice. I am boggled by the people here who seem to think it depends on them what she decides, or who think she should have made a different decision because THEY think/say so. I had prepared myself for her retirement after worlds even though it was/is my preference that she keep skating. I don't think she owes it to me or anyone to keep skating OR to stop skating.

The question of whether she should be 'allowed' to go to Worlds again is similarly ridiculous to me. I DO strongly agree that neither she nor anyone else should be held up, next year or ever. However, I think it is equally unfair to keep anyone down purposefully. In my mind next year she will show up to Nationals, and either she will do well or she will do poorly. Hopefully she will be marked according to how she does, and if she manages to EARN a spot on the world team, then so be it. If not, that is actually quite fine by me as well... I am a fan of lots of US skaters not just Alissa.

I would like to know what happened at worlds, but whether she keeps skating or not, and whether she likes competing or not (while I will admit it doesn't look to me like she does, my mind is actually also blown at the number of people who seem convinced she is lying and hates competing- how would you know what is in her mind) is none of our business in my mind. That doesn't mean you can't be happy or upset by her decision- of course you can- but viciously telling her she has to retire and let others shine is IMO not right. If the others want to step up and shine, they have only to do it- just look at Ashley :)
 
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