Alissa Czisny plans to compete next season | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Alissa Czisny plans to compete next season

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ R.D., in your vision who is it that is doing all this evaluating and who decides, "you are on an upward curve because you did better at Nationals than at NHK," "you did OK at Nationals but now you must do four continents to see if you can handle the pressure," and in the end "you go to Worlds, you stay home?" A committee of Patricia St. Peter, Doug Williams, and Marc Ladwig?" (Fine people, one and all.)

Skaters work all their young lives for the privilege of representing their country at the World Championships. To me there just has to be a well-fefined criterion, written down, openly published, and acknowledged by everyone. To say, "The committee took 'all factors' into account and you stay home because we say so" -- I just don't think that is any way to run an organization that represents thousands of athletes and dozens of local figure skating clubs.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
^ But that's more or less how it's done in gymnastics. AFAIK the Karolyis are basically in charge of the entire world/Oly team selection process. And look how strong we are in that sport... (this is not to imply that this is the system we need in figureskating, but it's a point to make nonetheless)

As for who the selection committee should contain, I didn't have anyone particular in mind. But clearly it should be composed of people acting in the best interest of Team USA, short and long-term.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Mathman, I think that the committee should be given wide latitude to make decisions. In addition to "fairness" to the athletes, the reality is that the sport in this country needs marketable stars. I think that's why they have supported Alissa so much, because when she puts it all together she is a skater that can really be the face of skating in this country. Certainly she hasn't achieved her potential, but not at the cost of someone else who could have really amazing results; we just don't have depth in ladies. I'd be more ok with them having placed Alissa 3rd or 4th at Nationals but putting her on the team based on her strong international results rather than having to inflate her scores to achieve the necessary placement to get her on the world team.

RD, I agree that the big picture should be evaluated as well. It just seems like it will be hard to implement a formula to weigh international results because it looks like everyone other than Ashley next year will have just 1 international result for the season.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I'd be more ok with them having placed Alissa 3rd or 4th at Nationals but putting her on the team based on her strong international results rather than having to inflate her scores to achieve the necessary placement to get her on the world team.

In that scenario, I would have sent her to 4CC for a skate-off against Zawadzki and/or Zhang; higher finisher gets the spot. That's probably the fairest thing to do.
 
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carriecmu0503

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
And she came in eighth. I remember crying when she skated; it was so thrilling. Interestingly, the skater it benefited the next year was Bobek, who I think ended up winning bronze at 1995 Worlds. Kwan came in fourth in that Worlds in 1995, the last year she was off the podium until I think 2004.

Actually, KWAN was the skater who benefited the next year, not Bobek. Bobek won 1995 nationals, and Kwan was second. Had Kwan not finished in the top ten at 1994 worlds, she would not have made the 1995 world team; Bobek as national champion would have been the sole entrant.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Actually, KWAN was the skater who benefited the next year, not Bobek. Bobek won 1995 nationals, and Kwan was second. Had Kwan not finished in the top ten at 1994 worlds, she would not have made the 1995 world team; Bobek as national champion would have been the sole entrant.

Bobek had such an amazing SP and beginning of her Worlds LP, it's a pity she couldn't hang on. Even though Lu skated great, I think if Bobek had hit all her jumps that even the turn-out of the 3Z-3T wouldn't have cost her the title. Her LP outfit was one of my all time favorites.
 

Jammers

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Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Says something about US skating now that our National champion sometimes can barely finish in the top ten but Michelle at 13 finished 8th even with all that pressure to keep two spots.
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
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Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Says something about US skating now that our National champion sometimes can barely finish in the top ten but Michelle at 13 finished 8th even with all that pressure to keep two spots.

Michelle also admitted that she loved the pressure and the nervousness she felt before competing. For the most part, she was able to turn the nerves into great performances...except for four nights in her career =(
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Michelle also admitted that she loved the pressure and the nervousness she felt before competing. For the most part, she was able to turn the nerves into great performances...except for four nights in her career =(

What really helped Michelle was Irina. For me, her greatest performances were her 2000 and 2001 LPs at Worlds, when Irina's magnificent jumps forced Michelle to produce her absolute best skating. Michelle rose to the challenge so many times, and sometimes I think having a solid rivalry would help skaters like Mirai and Alissa attack their programs rather than skating so defensively. They are so talented but I always get a sense they are skating "not to lose" rather than to win.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well, Nagasu IS sitting on the sidelines missing worlds for the 2nd year in a row...she is being passed by more and more skaters, even watched her old junior rival Caroline Zhang rise from the ashes to bypass her. If that doesn't kick her, what will?

As for Czisny, she just does not have the nerves for competition. Frankly, I'm surprised to hear her saying she enjoys it...looks can be deceiving!
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Yeah you're probably right about Mirai and Alyssa. I still just think for these really naturally talented skaters, they know that just skating clean is enough to medal. They don't have to stretch themselves technically or do anything special. I just think back to Lipinski and Hughes who both had their best skates at the Olympics, particularly Lipinski who also had pressure as a co-favorite for gold. A superior rival forced both to go out and do more technically than they might otherwise have. Lipinski's 3L/3L wasn't all that solid; she missed it a few times during the season and fell on it at the Olympics LP run-through practice. Hughes had never done 2 3/3s. Yet both pulled off the big moves, I think, because they knew they needed to; simply skating clean wasn't going to do it.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Yeah you're probably right about Mirai and Alyssa. I still just think for these really naturally talented skaters, they know that just skating clean is enough to medal. They don't have to stretch themselves technically or do anything special.

At the World level this is clearly not true, and never has been. Nagasu had the performances of her life at the 2010 Olympics and still came a distant 4th. An imperfect Rochette bested her for the bronze medal by the margin of roughly 3 falls worth of mistakes. Not only that but Ando skating just a bit better, Lepisto without her doubled jump in both the SP and LP, and Flatt without her 2 questionable URs would have all placed above her too. Last year at a regular grand prix she had a good outing and lost to Korpi who had major mistakes.

Czisny skated almost as well as she could at Worlds last year, only one missed jump in both programs. She did not even medal, beaten out by Kostner who had mistakes and lesser content, and also by Leonova. Far behind winner Ando and a 55% Kim who took silver (and nearly gold). This was in argaubly the worst year of World ladies competition in decades too.

So should either of these ladies have a myth that skating clean with what they have now guarantees them a medal at the World level, they are already operating off track with reality. With Wagner, Gold, and possibly Zhang above them in the UFSA's viewpoint going into next season, they may have to add things just to make the U.S World team should they skate clean, unless the others falter.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Bobek had such an amazing SP and beginning of her Worlds LP, it's a pity she couldn't hang on. Even though Lu skated great, I think if Bobek had hit all her jumps that even the turn-out of the 3Z-3T wouldn't have cost her the title. Her LP outfit was one of my all time favorites.

Bobek would have won that year with just one fall. The second fall killed her.

Kwan boosted her career in many ways being 8th at the 94 Worlds. I guarantee if she doesnt make it to the 95 Worlds (which without being top 2 and gaining the U.S 2 spots for 94 she wouldnt have been) she doesnt come close to winning the 96 Worlds, quite possibly not even medalling. It was her experience at the 95 Worlds, skating so unbelievably well and still coming 4th, that gave the push for the Kwan transformation next year. She also wouldnt have ever entered the 95-96 season with enough reputation if she didnt even compete at the 95 Worlds.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Actually, KWAN was the skater who benefited the next year, not Bobek. Bobek won 1995 nationals, and Kwan was second. Had Kwan not finished in the top ten at 1994 worlds, she would not have made the 1995 world team; Bobek as national champion would have been the sole entrant.

My mistake. That was some two-person team in 1995, though, wasn't it? I agree with drivingmissdaisy that Bobek's costume for the LP was one of the all-time greats. And her program was wonderful, too. I'm glad she has that world bronze to look back on. I was already a fan of Kwan's (and my admiration of her was cemented by her gutsy skating at 1994 Worlds), and I remember my disappointment at her lack of a medal that year. But, as it turned out, she ended up with enough medals to take the sting away.

It's true that having strong rivals brought out the best in Kwan. But she also had extraordinary drive and coolness under pressure. You don't find her particular combination of skills under every tree. I'm still waiting for another one on the American team.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
At the World level this is clearly not true, and never has been. Nagasu had the performances of her life at the 2010 Olympics and still came a distant 4th. An imperfect Rochette bested her for the bronze medal by the margin of roughly 3 falls worth of mistakes. Not only that but Ando skating just a bit better, Lepisto without her doubled jump in both the SP and LP, and Flatt without her 2 questionable URs would have all placed above her too. Last year at a regular grand prix she had a good outing and lost to Korpi who had major mistakes.

You are right, and in regards to Mirai and Alissa I was speaking to their competition at the national level. Of course Mirai would need a 3/3 to compete with Carolina, YuNa, Miki, etc but at the national level 2 clean programs with no 3/3s would have won her the gold. Same for Alissa. Mirai by all accounts had great practices at Nationals so her technical content was not outside her comfort zone by any means.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
You are right, and in regards to Mirai and Alissa I was speaking to their competition at the national level. Of course Mirai would need a 3/3 to compete with Carolina, YuNa, Miki, etc but at the national level 2 clean programs with no 3/3s would have won her the gold. Same for Alissa. Mirai by all accounts had great practices at Nationals so her technical content was not outside her comfort zone by any means.

This is what's most frustrating for fans of these two ladies. Though Alissa doesn't have a 3/3, she apparently is a far better jumper in practice than she ever is in competition. And several people have reported that even this year, Mirai's practices have been solid. Then the actual competition starts, and it so frequently goes out the window. Do they need to be hypnotized or something, so they can show the world their best?
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
This is what's most frustrating for fans of these two ladies. Though Alissa doesn't have a 3/3, she apparently is a far better jumper in practice than she ever is in competition. And several people have reported that even this year, Mirai's practices have been solid. Then the actual competition starts, and it so frequently goes out the window. Do they need to be hypnotized or something, so they can show the world their best?

They should spend a week with Michelle. Just the three of them. A lot of people said Michelle was better in competition than she was in practice.

A lot of skaters are like Mirai and Alissa, who are far better in practice than they are when the crowds come. Angela Nikodinov used to win all the practices. So did Maria Butyrskaya...
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I've heard reports that Czisny is inconsistent in practice, too...

I don't know about Nagasu though.
 
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