Ekaterina Bobrova & Dmitri Soloviev switch to Zhulin | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Ekaterina Bobrova & Dmitri Soloviev switch to Zhulin

dorispulaski

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Jul 26, 2003
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I think it is more fair to say their technique is marginal, and that if they have an easy panel they do better, and a tough panel, worse. However, marginal technique is even harder to maintain on lousy ice. And no team should have to put up with it, particularly if the ISU knows that the loc was not great before.

The ISU has made this sort of mistake before with the unheated Swiss venue for Europeans last year.
http://www.1310news.com/sports/arti...lance-but-no-apology-for-frigid-european-rink

They don't properly vet the venues.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Good point also about C&L! They are right in the mix and can easily beat any Russian team. The thing about the B/S coaches is the view that they really think levels are just whatever the caller says they are so there is no need to try to find some kind of way of getting level 4. Just do whatever you have the best you can and campaign it as level 4 and it that's what it will be. Plus you have the programs issue for PCS. There is just nothing that is working now. Any idea that any Russian team will have both tech and PCS in Sochi is laughable. The tech is a huge problem and with PCS it's not like at the Olympics any Russian team will have V/M or D/W PCS. Even P/B PCS would be a big stretch.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
Russia is not going to have any medalists in Ice Dance in Sochi. Maybe if there is a mistake made by a couple of teams! It would have to be OD 2006 again and it not effect a Russian couple. Because Gold is obviously DW or VM and P/B are there. Then you have possibles in W/P and still S/S even with 2012 worlds.

The only team certain to medal in Sochi is V/M. I see D/W as vurnerable to falling off the podium by then but still a strong possability of course. P/B are likely to fall off the podium by then, but also a possability. W/P have a good shot to medal by Sochi if they keep on their current track. The Russians definitely could have 1 or 2 teams with a real medal shot by Sochi, just certain B/S wont be one of them. I also dont think the Shibutanis will be anywhere near the podium again until after 2014.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
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Jun 16, 2010
Heh. Honestly, I don't think they're gonna be THAT far off the pack. The big three Russian teams all struggle with levels. B/S still have higher PCS than I/K and R/T. Zhulin's great for teaching technique and that would've improved B/S. Great technique means stronger chance of levels, and that alone could've made the difference for them, along with more strongly accepted programs. Sinitsina/Zhiganshin are riding a huge wave of hype, but that's all it is. Monko/Khaliavin are question marks after missing last season.

Anyway, I think B/S at Zhulin, I/K with Morosov and R/T at Shpilband/Zoueva (still a question mark), Russian dance would've been less insular and more interesting.

B/S are done, no matter who coaches them (and Zhulin is definitely not advantageous at this point anyway). I/K already passed them at Worlds and will be favored by then over the Russian fed. next season. I am sure of it. I also fully expect S/Z to pass them next season and be pushing I/K for the Russian #1 soon. They arent just hype, they are already technically superior to a team like B/S and they are only juniors. B/S were only ever Russian #1 for awhile due to seniority and they have proven nothing. They couldnt even medal on home ice over a team like the Shibutanis and last year continued to tread water at best. Maybe the Russians arent that far off the pack but if by some miracle B/S continue as their #1 they are.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
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Mar 6, 2010
The only team certain to medal in Sochi is V/M. I see D/W as vurnerable to falling off the podium by then but still a strong possability of course. P/B are likely to fall off the podium by then, but also a possability. W/P have a good shot to medal by Sochi if they keep on their current track. The Russians definitely could have 1 or 2 teams with a real medal shot by Sochi, just certain B/S wont be one of them. I also dont think the Shibutanis will be anywhere near the podium again until after 2014.

D/W didn't even fall behind P/B at a worlds in France. There was some potential in the SD but it didn't even happen there! Then in the Free Dance it was same old D/W and V/M total domination with no team allowed to be even a little close to them. That only leaves bronze and right now no Russian team can even pull that off or get close. Even if you look at 4th places it was not even a Russian team. Can't get near medaling. 2012-2013 season will have to see a Russian team with the ability to get levels and PCS consistent! B/S or I/K don't have that. It's only them and R/T has been to worlds but it's really only I/K or B/S and it's not going to happen or come close to happening. For the 2013 grand prix you are not going to see a Russian team all of a sudden have the technical skills or PCS to medal at the Olympics.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
D/W didn't even fall behind P/B at a worlds in France. There was some potential in the SD but it didn't even happen there! Then in the Free Dance it was same old D/W and V/M total domination with no team allowed to be even a little close to them. That only leaves bronze and right now no Russian team can even pull that off or get close. Even if you look at 4th places it was not even a Russian team. Can't get near medaling. 2012-2013 season will have to see a Russian team with the ability to get levels and PCS consistent! B/S or I/K don't have that. It's only them and R/T has been to worlds but it's really only I/K or B/S and it's not going to happen or come close to happening. For the 2013 grand prix you are not going to see a Russian team all of a sudden have the technical skills or PCS to medal at the Olympics.

I never said there was any possability of D/W falling behind P/B. I said there was the possability of BOTH being passed by some of the others, espeicaly W/P or 1 or 2 of the Russian teams. Of course P/B are much more likely, in fact I think they are likely to drop out of the top 3. Nowhere in my post did I imply P/B would be passing D/W, but that both teams will be feeling the heat from other teams from behind.

I recall before the season you were the one saying the Shibutanis were a lock to medal at Worlds, and were contenders for gold in 2014 so with all due respect you arent the best one to making predictions. The Shibutanis finished below both Russian teams at Worlds, and one of them skated horribly (the one which will probably only be Russian #3 by Sochi) so what on earth makes you think the Russians while preparing for an Olympics at home arent stronger contenders for a medal than them.
 

silverlake22

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Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Would S/Z maybe be good enough to medal in 2014? Or at least be Russian #1 by then? I/K are only recently out of juniors as well and B/S are not doing so hot as of late. S/Z are really good, better than I/K as juniors IMO. I don't they can challenge V/M or D/W by 2014, but I can see them giving P/B and W/P a fight for bronze there, along with maybe C/L and another Russian team if they improve. Idk. Her posture is bad but everything else is fab.

Shibs likely won't be in medal contention until after 2015, until then, they will be battling the Russians and C/L for 5th place IMO.
 

Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Would S/Z maybe be good enough to medal in 2014? Or at least be Russian #1 by then? I/K are only recently out of juniors as well and B/S are not doing so hot as of late. S/Z are really good, better than I/K as juniors IMO. I don't they can challenge V/M or D/W by 2014, but I can see them giving P/B and W/P a fight for bronze there, along with maybe C/L and another Russian team if they improve. Idk. Her posture is bad but everything else is fab.

Shibs likely won't be in medal contention until after 2015, until then, they will be battling the Russians and C/L for 5th place IMO.

Sinitsina and Zhiganshin are very talented and have a lot of potential. I could definitely see them on the podium in 2014 if they can get better packaging. If you watch them, they have very nice lines and have amazing unison. At junior worlds, they got level fours on everything except for their step sequences and one Cha Cha pattern which they got level 3's on. They got +1 and +2 GOE on everything except for their last lift in the FD where one judge gave them a zero. Their tech scores in the FD with one fewer lift were less than 4 points behind Ilinykh and Katsalapov meaning that with another level 4 lift, they'd be ahead. Also, looking at their SD scores, they scored 34.29 in tech, the same amount as Tessa and Scott. Even though the judges are more lax when judging juniors than they are with seniors, it's still very impressive.
If they can get more interesting programs as seniors and keep improving (and fix her posture) they could be Russia's number one team easily. I'm hoping that they move away from Kustarova's group as she isn't known for transitioning her teams from juniors to seniors with much success.
 

Mattieu

Medalist
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Dec 22, 2010
Sinitsina and Zhiganshin are very talented and have a lot of potential.
If they can get more interesting programs as seniors and keep improving (and fix her posture) they could be Russia's number one team easily. .

The problem with posture shouldn't be underestimated.
Kustarova's teaching methods cause the posture problems.
She actively encourages the girl to lean forwards in order to gain speed and to obtain a high leg line on the free leg.
In good technique, the hips are kept forward and underneath you, creating a nicer overall line.

This could explain why Kustarova's couples are successful in juniors and not in seniors, as essentially, she is getting them to cheat, which comes back to haunt them in seniors, where the poor posture becomes more and more exaggerated, as they need more and more speed.

So basically, if you sort out the posture problem, the girl will be initially much slower across the ice, as she will have to re-learn how to pick up speed without leaning forward.
 
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gmyers

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Mar 6, 2010
I was talking about D/W being surpassed. I don't think it's likely that any team could pass them. P/B were an example of a team that was in a position to even though the team is P/B and on the way out and people are saying all their medals now are for sentimental reasons.

Shibutani's were so bad in 2012 worlds its not even comparable with 2011 Shibutanis which could compete for medals and did win a medal! The FD twizzle didn't even count! It was so messed up they didn't even do an element and beat R/T and if they did do a twizzle would have beaten B/S or I/K. If they had been their usual selves certainly medal worthy. But even not doing twizzles in the FD were better than R/T.

The fact is that the Russian teams of I/K and B/S and certainly R/T do not have the talent to medal.

Sinitsina and Zhiganshin are probably not going to even win a GP medal next season. They are going to medal the first time in 2013-2014 season? It's still Ice Dance. You need some time to develop reputation. I could see a singles skater winning Gold but not an Ice Dance team. You might as well talk about Monko and Khalavian or any other team but it's not likely because it is only I/K or B/S and they're not going anywhere at the 2014 Olympics.
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
Sinitsina and Zhiganshin are probably not going to even win a GP medal next season. They are going to medal the first time in 2013-2014 season? It's still Ice Dance. You need some time to develop reputation. I could see a singles skater winning Gold but not an Ice Dance team. You might as well talk about Monko and Khalavian or any other team but it's not likely because it is only I/K or B/S and they're not going anywhere at the 2014 Olympics.

Well the Shibs did medal in their GPs (two bronzes) in their debut year, so certainly S/Z could. Depends on their competition. They are unlikely going to pass the worlds medalists (who will likely get gold) or a surging W/P or C/L. bronze is most likely if they do get a medal.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I was talking about D/W being surpassed. I don't think it's likely that any team could pass them. P/B were an example of a team that was in a position to even though the team is P/B and on the way out and people are saying all their medals now are for sentimental reasons.

Shibutani's were so bad in 2012 worlds its not even comparable with 2011 Shibutanis which could compete for medals and did win a medal! The FD twizzle didn't even count! It was so messed up they didn't even do an element and beat R/T and if they did do a twizzle would have beaten B/S or I/K. If they had been their usual selves certainly medal worthy. But even not doing twizzles in the FD were better than R/T.
The fact is that the Russian teams of I/K and B/S and certainly R/T do not have the talent to medal.

Sinitsina and Zhiganshin are probably not going to even win a GP medal next season. They are going to medal the first time in 2013-2014 season? It's still Ice Dance. You need some time to develop reputation. I could see a singles skater winning Gold but not an Ice Dance team. You might as well talk about Monko and Khalavian or any other team but it's not likely because it is only I/K or B/S and they're not going anywhere at the 2014 Olympics.

Shibs scored 82 for their FD at Worlds, 10 points behind B/S and 13 behind I/K. Surely a twizzle sequence isn't worth that much? Even with the big mistake, they likely only would have been 6th or 7th had they skated well. The scores would have been close to I/K and C/L, but my guess is they would have been behind both and fighting for 6th place with B/S. The bronze last season was a fluke and shouldn't have happened, I know P/B made a big mistake, but 3rd should have gone to W/P or B/S honestly.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
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Jun 16, 2010
B/S made bigger mistakes than the Shibutanis and still beat them at Worlds this year. It is true the Shibutanis bronze at Worlds last year was one of the biggest flukes in the history of ice dancing. If the event were run the next week with a new panel of judges they probably come 7th or 8th. Of course they will always go down as the bronze medalists that year so good for them, and they might get back to a World podium someday but it sure as heck wont be anytime until after Sochi if it happens.

In any case the idea the Shibutanis have more shot of a medal in Sochi than a Russian dance team at this point is comical at best (and no I am definitely not talking about R/T who are unlikely to even make the Sochi Olympics as the #3 Russian team).

If they had been their usual selves they would have been medal worthy in Nice, LOL! Too cute. :laugh:
 
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sky_fly20

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Nov 20, 2011
The fact is that the Russian teams of I/K and B/S and certainly R/T do not have the talent to medal.

Sinitsina and Zhiganshin are probably not going to even win a GP medal next season. They are going to medal the first time in 2013-2014 season? It's still Ice Dance. You need some time to develop reputation. I could see a singles skater winning Gold but not an Ice Dance team. You might as well talk about Monko and Khalavian or any other team but it's not likely because it is only I/K or B/S and they're not going anywhere at the 2014 Olympics.

while Ice Dance maybe the easiest and most predictable of all the skating discipline
on the contrary to 2014 saying that the top 3 are locks, I wouldn't even count on that , 2 more years to go and alot has happened
and who would have thought to say that C/L are moving up there , W/P fast progress or how the boring Shibutanis and the old school B/S are regressing

It depends on a teams progress and definitely they could get a medal even in their first seniors Shibutanis or I/K
imo, S/Z have the best potential out of all the russian team, fix her posture and leaving Kustarova thus hopefully Tarasova will adopt them

and No, the Shibutanis are not a podium threat, they were lucky they won a fluke worlds bronze that would have gotten by P/B ,
well not at least after 2014 . The cutesy and more cutesy looks won't cut it this time, :laugh:
 
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sky_fly20

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Nov 20, 2011
B/S are done, no matter who coaches them (and Zhulin is definitely not advantageous at this point anyway). I/K already passed them at Worlds and will be favored by then over the Russian fed. next season. I am sure of it. I also fully expect S/Z to pass them next season and be pushing I/K for the Russian #1 soon. They arent just hype, they are already technically superior to a team like B/S and they are only juniors. B/S were only ever Russian #1 for awhile due to seniority and they have proven nothing. They couldnt even medal on home ice over a team like the Shibutanis and last year continued to tread water at best. Maybe the Russians arent that far off the pack but if by some miracle B/S continue as their #1 they are.

me too, I will eat my words if B/S are still Rus No.1 by next season , imo they may even have a hard time getting a spot for the 2014 Olympics
I/K will be No.1 in Russia by Sochi or S/Z could really fare enough to be No.1, thus they will have to compete with R/T on the third spot
and even then, they might give the 3rd team spot if based on past Olympics reputation ; they might test it with Stepanova/Bukin Jr.
 

Jammers

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Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Amazing all the hate for the Shibs just because they beat your favorites teams last year. Even if they got lucky to medal they still would have finished 4th or 5th in their first Worlds. Not bad for a 19 and 16 year old kid.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Well the Shibs did medal in their GPs (two bronzes) in their debut year, so certainly S/Z could. Depends on their competition. They are unlikely going to pass the worlds medalists (who will likely get gold) or a surging W/P or C/L. bronze is most likely if they do get a medal.

S/Z would be lucky to win any medals. The fact that when it comes to seniors the coaches don't know what they are doing is very bad for them. They are talented and I should say most of these teams have talent but not enough and the programs and packaging are truly bad and totally out of line with what is being done now.

Shibs scored 82 for their FD at Worlds, 10 points behind B/S and 13 behind I/K. Surely a twizzle sequence isn't worth that much? Even with the big mistake, they likely only would have been 6th or 7th had they skated well. The scores would have been close to I/K and C/L, but my guess is they would have been behind both and fighting for 6th place with B/S. The bronze last season was a fluke and shouldn't have happened, I know P/B made a big mistake, but 3rd should have gone to W/P or B/S honestly.

I wasn't just going by FD scores but total scores. B/S were only 6 points ahead of the S/S and that was with S/S not doing an element. They could not do an element and be ahead of R/T and if they did would have been ahead of B/S.

B/S made bigger mistakes than the Shibutanis and still beat them at Worlds this year. It is true the Shibutanis bronze at Worlds last year was one of the biggest flukes in the history of ice dancing. If the event were run the next week with a new panel of judges they probably come 7th or 8th. Of course they will always go down as the bronze medalists that year so good for them, and they might get back to a World podium someday but it sure as heck wont be anytime until after Sochi if it happens.

In any case the idea the Shibutanis have more shot of a medal in Sochi than a Russian dance team at this point is comical at best (and no I am definitely not talking about R/T who are unlikely to even make the Sochi Olympics as the #3 Russian team).

If they had been their usual selves they would have been medal worthy in Nice, LOL! Too cute. :laugh:

I don't agree that B/S made bigger mistakes than S/S. S/S didn't do twizzles in the FD! None of the B/S mistakes even come close to that.

while Ice Dance maybe the easiest and most predictable of all the skating discipline
on the contrary to 2014 saying that the top 3 are locks, I wouldn't even count on that , 2 more years to go and alot has happened
and who would have thought to say that C/L are moving up there , W/P fast progress or how the boring Shibutanis and the old school B/S are regressing

It depends on a teams progress and definitely they could get a medal even in their first seniors Shibutanis or I/K
imo, S/Z have the best potential out of all the russian team, fix her posture and leaving Kustarova thus hopefully Tarasova will adopt them

and No, the Shibutanis are not a podium threat, they were lucky they won a fluke worlds bronze that would have gotten by P/B ,
well not at least after 2014 . The cutesy and more cutesy looks won't cut it this time, :laugh:

S/S are a bigger podium thread in Sochi than any Russian team. A Russian team is not going to win an Olympic medal before a world or Euros or even a GP medal.

The idea that S/Z or Stepanova and Bukin or whoever can debut with equal standing to current third place team P/B is not likely. The Olympics would be one of the first major senior competitions for S/Z or S/B and I doubt they would do that well in PCS even if they were technically flawless. You might be talking about 2 Euros and 1 worlds as their major experience and then right to the Olympics?
 

pangtongfan

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Joined
Jun 16, 2010
The Shibutanis didnt beat any of my favorite teams. They beat Pechalat & Bourzat who are one of my least favorite dance teams of all time (although objectively I acknowledge they would have gotten the bronze easily with an even less bad fall since it is pretty obvious). The only team that even finished in the top 7 that I liked are Weaver & Poje, but as Canada's #3 team they were never going be given a medal in 2011 even if 5 teams fell.

I dont think anyone in this thread are hating on the Shibutanis. Were are just realistically evaluating what their chances are. Also presuming just because they won bronze in 2011 means they would under normal conditions or they are always capable of it is flawed thinking, and needs to be pointed out to those who use it, that is not hating.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
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Nov 20, 2011
S/S are a bigger podium thread in Sochi than any Russian team. A Russian team is not going to win an Olympic medal before a world or Euros or even a GP medal.

The idea that S/Z or Stepanova and Bukin or whoever can debut with equal standing to current third place team P/B is not likely. The Olympics would be one of the first major senior competitions for S/Z or S/B and I doubt they would do that well in PCS even if they were technically flawless. You might be talking about 2 Euros and 1 worlds as their major experience and then right to the Olympics?

it has happened, you can podium at the Olympics without wining Worlds or Euros, its not a prerequisite :confused:
so to say the Top 3 are locks for the same Top 3 in the Olympics, I doubt that.

like I said who would have thought this season the B/S and Shibutanis would regress
V/M will get to go to podium but I could see W/P as the biggest contenders by 2014. sure reputation plays a big role in getting high PCS
in ice dance but to have a successful transition to seniors, you don't need all those other competitions to win it just to earn a medal at the Olympics and I'm not even talking about debut that can equal P/B status right away, I'm talking about how fast the progress will be

2014 is 2 more years and anything can happen ;)
there are no locks unless you're Patrick Chan or maybe not even him, lol
 
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pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Mark my words, the main 4 teams battling for silver and bronze by 2014 will be Davis & White, Weaver & Poje, and whoever the #1 and #2 Russian teams are then. I look forward to bumping this thread come Sochi when that is the case. The Shibutanis wont be anywhere near a medal, and Pechalat & Bourzat will likely have been dumped by then.
 
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