WTT Free Dance | Page 5 | Golden Skate

WTT Free Dance

Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
However, I think I read somewhere that skaters could claim exhaustion, and opt out with no penalty.

I think they can, as long as they don't skate in shows during the time of event (and maybe a week before and after or something?)?
 

CAS

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Agree. His real drama is the way he lifts Tessa- with the face expression as if he lifts the heaviest stuff in the gym, then he just puts it on the ice, the blade hits the ice with some ugly sound. That wasn't good at all. Meryl&Charlie delivered probably one of their best performances in their career. The whole dance was one big generous fest for the honor of His Majesty Dance. Right on music, light, elegant, fast and beautifful. They got an ovation that they truly deserved and left me/us in a good spirit. :thumbsup:

We don't agree. You misunderstood my post (or were being funny).
 

gold12345

Medalist
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
I doubt most of these skaters will ever want to miss the WTT. Even the last place team is going home with a very nice amount of prize money.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
V/M skated at 90%, D/W at 110%. V/M were tentative and not as sharp as they were at Worlds. D/W gave their best performances of the season.

Hence the gap.

These teams are thisclose in talent and ability. Each one has to skate full out, and the team that skates the best on the day is going to win. At WTT, it was D/W.
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Wasn't it Oksana Gritschuk who had a brawl with Usova? Oksana G had an affair with Zhulin, who was married to (and skating with) Usova at the time.

You're right, Chuck. Oksana Baiul won women's singles, whereas Oksana Grischuk won the dance.
 

PatC

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Have finally looked at the on-demand video (after missing the livestream). For those who listened repeatedly to Scott in the K and C:

Am I the only one who heard him say, "Good luck," to Marina as she was departing the K and C? I presume that she was on her way to D/W for their FD, and that his words by extension were in support of D/W too.

I hope that my ears were not deceiving me. Yes, Scott takes every competition very seriously, but his instincts for good sportsmanship, friendship, and loyalty are strong too.


No, he said good luck, I heard him as well.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I understand that it was said in a moment of exhaustion and frustration. But fact remains he should not have said. Japan has put a lot of effort into this competition, not only financially. The crowd is bigger than at Worlds! It's also in part a team event, wanting to exude positivity and team spirit. What he said went against all of that. I personally don't think it's 'Lots of drama over nothing'. I would be willing to give Scott al the benefit of the doubt if this had been the first time he'd acted (seemingly at least) as a sore loser.

Anyway; I hope Scott gets himself a nice holiday to recover from this long season, he deserves it. Team Voir has done really well!

Sometimes, I feel FS crowd can be a little too politically correct to the point that it makes wonder whether some people truly believe what they are saying or writing, or do they just pretend to be so because it seems "right", not referring to anyone in particular. You can't force someone to like or dislike something. If Scott dislike this event, he is entitled his opinion. It's not as if he holds a press conference just to deplore how much he dislikes being there. That would be inconsiderate to the organizers indeed. And assuming he did say what some think he said, why does that make him a sore loser for disliking an event. :confused: Many skaters skip 4CC or never attend it because they think they are too good for it, wouldn't that be a stronger dismissal of the event being unworthy yet why no one ever called Michelle Kwan a sore loser? I guess I am not seeing the connection between disliking / not attending an event and being a sore loser.

Then again, I am quite skeptical of all righteous defenders of good ethics and high moral standard that seem to particularly overpopulate certain parts of WWW. I know I am far from such high standards because I am an average human being so I wonder how come so many saints seem to congregate here?

Finally, all said and done, I don't believe Scott really hates this event. He is joker, you can't take what he says seriously half of the time. Charlie White said as much after the GPF and given the two of them know each other so well, I think Charlie is probably far more credible than some self-claimed saints on internet, just my $0.02
 

RemyRose

YOLO
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Country
United-States
Oh he said it. I rewatched it several times just for the entertainment value :rofl:
It was as funny as Team France/Italy antics in the K&C. At least he's not fake with his feelings :laugh:
 

icefan1005

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Sorry, but after all the dramas with Scott's off-the-cuff remarks and sour facial expressions, I'm left with the impression that to Scott, winning is paramount, and "good sportsmanship, friendship, and loyalty" are little more than an afterthought.

Well we don't really know Scott as a person. Some lines from a person caught at bad moments don't really define the person fully.

ETA: lol @ Eric's "I love this competition." in the pairs KnC
 

CassAgain

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
I don't think what Scott said was that big of a deal, but I also don't think admiring good sportsmanship is being overly PC.

[Scott] is joker, you can't take what he says seriously half of the time. Charlie White said as much after the GPF and given the two of them know each other so well, I think Charlie is probably far more credible than some self-claimed saints on internet, just my $0.02.

I think this says as much about Charlie as it does about Scott.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Wallylutz said:
You can't force someone to like or dislike something. If Scott dislike this event, he is entitled his opinion. ... I guess I am not seeing the connection between disliking / not attending an event and being a sore loser.

I think it was because Scott "hated the event" right after his scores were announced. When he wins, he likes the event just fine.

Plus, don't bite the hand that feeds you. At least wait until you cash the check before you tell the event organizers to jump in the lake. :laugh:

Many skaters skip 4CC or never attend it because they think they are too good for it, wouldn't that be a stronger dismissal of the event being unworthy yet why no one ever called Michelle Kwan a sore loser?

(?) If you decline an invitation to an event, you are not sore and you are not a loser. Why would anyone call you a sore loser?

It's when you accept the invitation, lose, and then gripe about it that gives that sour grapes impression.
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Far more annoying was Scott standing around with a Grumpy Face for 2 days. I'm not going to dump on him for an inadvertent whisper that shouldn't even have been picked up in the KnC. Only today did he lighten up a bit.

But Scott, if you hate the silliness of the cheerleading, ask someone else to be team captain. Megan Duhamel would have made a great one! She seemed to be having a ball.

BTW, Charlie doing an imitation of Ashley's black swan emerging move was a hoot.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I think it was because Scott "hated the event" right after his scores were announced. When he wins, he likes the event just fine.

That's your interpretation. There is least a dozen possible ways to interpret what he meant, if that's indeed what he said. I wasn't there so I can't be sure what he actually said. It could very mean he had a very long season, starting with Finlandia, and this one just stretched an otherwise long season even more. Many skaters have expressed reservation about being "strongly invited" to another competition 2 weeks after Worlds and travelled 3/4 around the globe just for it, no matter the money involved. Frankly, that would be very understandable.

Or he could very well be disappointed with the fact that Team Canada was 4th at that point and when you were the 2nd highest rank team coming into this game show, I am sure being 4th is disappointing to see. Olympians all have high expectations and elite athletes, no matter which sport they belong to, all want to win and be the best. No ones wants to see themselves in such a position. So he may very well dislike this event because how poorly skated it was for his team as a whole, after all, Team Canada had a real chance of winning 3 disciplines out of 4 here coming in yet with the women bombing and everyone except Pairs, all underperformed, I know how I would feel and it is nothing positive.

What you are saying is you think the main reason for Scott's comment is because he lost. But, at that point when the comment was made, Davis/White has yet to skate and how did he know he already lose? :confused: Knowing you, you may wish to argue that he is sour for Team Canada's results - not necessarily his own unknown results - I am going to deny you that chance by reminding you at that point, the results of other 3 disciplines are still TBD and Canaidan women could very well have a huge comeback in free and totally changed the final result.

That's why I think your argument is suffering a very obvious logic flaw here but it's not just you. Many seemed to jump to the same conclusion by ignoring facts about the said comment but that's o.k., righteous defenders of high morals need something to chew on, perfectly understandable as well, even if the sentiment comes across just a little forced... :laugh:

(?) If you decline an invitation to an event, you are not sore and you are not a loser. Why would anyone call you a sore loser?

By the same token, someone who declines an invitation year after year signals he/she have very little regard for that event = dismissing it. One could say that's equivalent as saying I don't care or I hate that competition so I won't go. You may think that's stretching a little and frankly, I would agree. Yet, assumed Scott said: "I hate this event." He could very hate it for many reasons other than winning or losing because we don't know why he said that. And he may very well have the exact same reasoning as the said skater who always skips 4CC - he just doesn't care about this event - but instead is forced to come due to threats of ISU sanctions. So I am as :confused: as you are as to why that makes him a sore loser. If skater A who skips isn't a sore loser for not wanting to attend 4CC, then Scott can't be a sore loser for not wanting to be here either. Since the conclusion that some people came to that Scott = sore loser for "hating an event", then using the same flawed logic, one can equate intentionally skipping other major competitions = sore loser as well. That's how illogical that argument really is due to tea leaf reading, apparently, quite popular around here.

It's when you accept the invitation, lose, and then gripe about it that gives that sour grapes impression.

Once again, your argument would have been more plausible if he actually lost at that point but he wasn't. D/W could have tumbled, fell and tumble all the way below the French team. Also, with the final results of other 3 disciplines still TBD, he couldn't have known that Team Canada will necessary lose as well. So I am afraid I must conclude that the impression of sour grapes are merely your perception but it's safe to say you made a math error in your logic.
 

skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Poor guy. He says one stupid thing and everyone jumps down his throat. Yes, it was rude. Yes, he shouldn't have said it. But come on, it's not like he went to deliberately trash another team in an interview or making a fool of himself like he did at the GP final. It seemed the comment was meant for Tessa only, not the entire world, and that it was something he was saying in exhaustion/frustration. Had the camera moved 15 seconds earlier no one would have even known. I don't think it was a deliberate insult to the event coordinators or anyone else. Besides, we know he's over competative and a bit of a hot head. He always has been. It doesn't make him a jerk, just human. And calling him a sore looser is a bit misplaced since D/W hadn't skated yet and thus at that point V/M hadn't lost. Unfair to go crazy over one slip of the tongue and forget the hundred other times that he has been sweet and gracious. Especially in a sport where many others make a habit of running their mouthes off stupidly to the media on a regular basis and insulting everyone in sight in the process.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Wally, I really think you should try to understand the difference between a "logical argument" and chatting on the Internet. There are no logical arguments in any of my posts. ;)

The question I was trying to answer was, why are people calling Scott a sore loser. I gave my opinion. I think it is because of the timing of events. Right after Scott and Tessa skated, Scott was all smiles in the kiss and cry with hugs all around. The moment the scores came up his expression and demeanor changed. Then supposedly he made a remark about hating the event. In my opinion that is why people had a negative reaction.
 
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KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Poor guy. He says one stupid thing and everyone jumps down his throat. Yes, it was rude. Yes, he shouldn't have said it. But come on, it's not like he went to deliberately trash another team in an interview or making a fool of himself like he did at the GP final. It seemed the comment was meant for Tessa only, not the entire world, and that it was something he was saying in exhaustion/frustration. Had the camera moved 15 seconds earlier no one would have even known. I don't think it was a deliberate insult to the event coordinators or anyone else. Besides, we know he's over competative and a bit of a hot head. He always has been. It doesn't make him a jerk, just human. And calling him a sore looser is a bit misplaced since D/W hadn't skated yet and thus at that point V/M hadn't lost. Unfair to go crazy over one slip of the tongue and forget the hundred other times that he has been sweet and gracious. Especially in a sport where many others make a habit of running their mouthes off stupidly to the media on a regular basis and insulting everyone in sight in the process.

If you follow ice dance at all, it doesn’t take a math degree to know that V&M’s FD score was beatable, especially since they were already several points behind after the SD. Training with Davis & White everyday, Moir also knew that the likelihood of D&W imploding was slim. He also knew at that point that the Canadian Ladies would not be able to score high enough in the Freeskate to pull the Canadian Team up to win the event. Moir has already shown signs of being a poor loser (i.e. Grand Prix Final), so it’s not a leap to suggest that that is indeed the case.

Just because Moir is known as a hothead does not excuse him as you seem to indicate. And how many of his press/teleconferences have you attended to say he is always so “sweet and gracious?” There are in fact few skaters with as big a mouth as Moir. It’s just not good PR to insult your host. Moir is a great skater/dancer but his arrogance is not a particularly admirable trait.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
someone's already posted a youtube clip where Scott said "I hate this event"
there's no dispute of that fact. It was caught on tape. Japan paid big bucks to bring him there. He's an ungrateful little B. This is a guy who always acts like a diva.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
If you follow ice dance at all, it doesn’t take a math degree to know that V&M’s FD score was beatable, especially since they were already several points behind after the SD. Training with Davis & White everyday, Moir also knew that the likelihood of D&W imploding was slim.

Yes, we all know you selectively follow Ice Dance - apparently, you forgot about this recent event but let me refresh your memory: http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2012/SEG008.HTM

V/M were behind D/W after SD at the 4CC, just like at WTT. And no, D/W didn't implode but the Olympic Champions easily scored high enough in the FD to easily overtake the Americans on U.S. turf no less.

Fun factoid: D/W has never beaten V/M when a competition is held in the U.S., there must be a curse or something like that considering Ice Dance couples usually do better vs. their close rivals when they compete at home, e.g. V/M vs. D/W at the Vancouver Olympics or P/B vs. W/P at the Nice Worlds 2012. :laugh:


He also knew at that point that the Canadian Ladies would not be able to score high enough in the Freeskate to pull the Canadian Team up to win the event.

Really? You can mathematically calculate all that in your heard in split seconds before the fact? I mean, that's a lot of possibilities to consider, not to mention how the Pairs team will do and the Men's competition. The possibilities are endless: Japanese men could bomb like the American men did. Canadian pair could win the event overall, as they almost did. Canadian women could both rise in ranking, defeating some of the lower rank ladies like the two French women, Valentina Marchei of Italy and a few others while Akiko could bomb like Kanako. All those things add up very quickly. But then again, if you wish to dismiss something, considering all the possibilities is obviously a mere detail so please don't let me stop you.

Moir has already shown signs of being a poor loser (i.e. Grand Prix Final), so it’s not a leap to suggest that that is indeed the case.

Poor loser is a characterization made by certain people who have never anything positive to say about V/M due to them consistently beating D/W in major events, including Worlds this year. Despite all the earlier hypes of D/W's FD being a "Classic", which IMO is an over-hype that ended up hurting them more than anything else, I suppose if hyping them doesn't work, let's try some negative spraying of their training mates and #1 competition. :sarcasm: Just keep in mind that like the 2012 election campaign in the U.S., all those negativity, most of which are baseless tea leaf reading, runs the serious risk of backfiring. When V/M lost the FD at GPF due to computational error and the subsequent attempt to paint Scott Moir as a villain, many judges felt it was mean spirited or felt that V/M were treated unfairly. So the lopsided, back to back victories, by V/M at 4CC, then at Worlds was in a way a pay back for what happened earlier in the season. Can't say V/M didn't get some help but in part, they have to thank all those negativity which you helped to spread yet ended up alienating a lot of people.

Just because Moir is known as a hothead does not excuse him as you seem to indicate. And how many of his press/teleconferences have you attended to say he is always so “sweet and gracious?” There are in fact few skaters with as big a mouth as Moir. It’s just not good PR to insult your host. Moir is a great skater/dancer but his arrogance is not a particularly admirable trait.

ROFL! :laugh: May I ask you, do you cover any other sports besides Ice Dance?
 

romanoff81

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Moir truly believes Davis and white are an inferior team to them something he has always believed he can`t stand losing to them even at minor competitions that don`t mean anything even when they skate at 70% of their capabilities or phone in the performance, i expect another mega tantrum from them if they don`t win the gp final next year the only major comp they have not won.
 
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