Can Agnes Zawadzki break through next season? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Can Agnes Zawadzki break through next season?

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well, she is not the beauty ice princess type. With her angular body and athletic jumps, she appears a tad masculine. I think whatever they do to make her a bit more feminine looking-be it hair/makeup costumes will help her look.

:confused: :laugh: for real man?? Y'all kill me sometimes...

You know, "ice princess" to me isn't a LOOK so much as it is a STYLE of skating. And Zawadzki (like Wagner), as pointed out, is more athletic/power style than princessy style. Which is not BAD, mind you, simply a different type of skating which needs to be emphasized appropriately.

What WON'T help is trying to make her be more "ice-princess"-like. It'll just be awkward. She needs to play to her strengths and I hope team Zawadzki recognizes that. Same with Wagner- I felt she tried a LITTLE too hard during parts of her Black Swan FS- princess does not come easy like that. I suppose on one hand it's cool to branch out of one's comfort zone, but on the other hand I really detest this molding of all skaters into this one package. It's so boring that way, everyone else is like that.
 
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Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Unfortunately, the only option to success in the last few years seems to be "ice princess." Whether that's a trend, if it's somehow rewarded or overrewarded in the judging system, or if there are just a few choreographers around that basically do the same thing, I don't know. But I do blame the bad results of the US the last few years on girls trying to force themselves into a mold of a very delicate style of skating and a very serious, heavy, almost somber choice of music.

Mirai=excellent when cutesy, fell (literally and figuratively) when being princess.
Agnes=skated well with tough, showgirl music. Not so good with Rhapsody in Blue
Rachael=wrong body type and look to be a princess. Possibly never found right type of music/look (according to some on her thread).
Kimmie=came off as very tomboyish. Did a triple axel, but looked uncomfortable and weak with some of those princessy programs.

Debi Thomas was allowed to remain a tomboyish sort of skater, Tonya H and Nicole Bobek remained showgirl types, Tara L. was allowed to remain perky, Irina Slutskaya always forged her own path and was no princess. . . it's something new that everyone is sort of a cookie cutter. It's got to stop!:p

ETA: Of course, Alissa really is an ice princess, and she's had her share of problems, so I recognize there are other problems here as well.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Unfortunately, the only option to success in the last few years seems to be "ice princess." Whether that's a trend, if it's somehow rewarded or overrewarded in the judging system, or if there are just a few choreographers around that basically do the same thing, I don't know.

That's boring. I think it partly has to do with choice of choreographers, and partly to do with the current skaters at the top. Needs to be changed/reversed ASAP.

But I do blame the bad results of the US the last few years on girls trying to force themselves into a mold of a very delicate style of skating and a very serious, heavy, almost somber choice of music.

Same here. Let them be who they are! Nagasu suffered the most IMHO. That freeskate was just NOT her. Who came up with that epic failure of a program? Also doesn't help that she didn't at least try to work with it- again, begs the question whether it was forced upon her or not. Same with Zawadzki- SP was terrible although to her credit she did figure out how to sell it to the best of her ability at Nationals.

Maybe it's just me, but I think looks are so overrated (in relation to ability and skating skills). People keep going on and on about costume, hair color, all this junk like it really makes THAT big of a difference at the end of the day.

Of course, Alissa really is an ice princess, and she's had her share of problems, so I recognize there are other problems here as well.

:rofl: If you looked up "ice princess" in the dictionary, Czisny's pic would be there- without any words at all.

But just like I wouldn't mold Zawadzki, Nagasu et al into something they're not, I wouldn't change Czisny either because it's her style. I don't think she would pull off powerful or athletic or even sexy, and frankly I don't want to see her try. (there's room to experiment once she becomes a professional skater)
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
That's boring. I think it partly has to do with choice of choreographers, and partly to do with the current skaters at the top. Needs to be changed/reversed ASAP.



Same here. Let them be who they are! Nagasu suffered the most IMHO. That freeskate was just NOT her. Who came up with that epic failure of a program? Also doesn't help that she didn't at least try to work with it- again, begs the question whether it was forced upon her or not. Same with Zawadzki- SP was terrible although to her credit she did figure out how to sell it to the best of her ability at Nationals.

Maybe it's just me, but I think looks are so overrated (in relation to ability and skating skills). People keep going on and on about costume, hair color, all this junk like it really makes THAT big of a difference at the end of the day.



:rofl: If you looked up "ice princess" in the dictionary, Czisny's pic would be there- without any words at all.

But just like I wouldn't mold Zawadzki, Nagasu et al into something they're not, I wouldn't change Czisny either because it's her style. I don't think she would pull off powerful or athletic or even sexy, and frankly I don't want to see her try. (there's room to experiment once she becomes a professional skater)

definitely agree on the looks...skating isn't about what you look like, it's about SKATING and unfortunately people think otherwise.

czisny's "i like the way you move" ex program is a "sexy" and playful program and IMO i think she pulls it off pretty well. she has a lot of fun with it.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
macy judges give beauty points-look at alissa 's entire career. i rest my case-it is the glamour sport, like it or not.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Had Laura Lepisto been ugly, she would never have won a World bronze medal.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Had Laura Lepisto been ugly, she would never have won a World bronze medal.

But the two girls she beat out for bronze aren't exactly trolls, either. Nobody ever said Miki was beaten with an ugly stick. Nobody ever said Cynthia looks like a tranny mess (oh wait, maybe I have). So I don't think this is the case here.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Had Laura Lepisto been ugly, she would never have won a World bronze medal.

Yeah but if we're going to use that argument, the girl she beat out for 3rd (Miki Ando) won 2 world titles and the argument could be made that if SHE wasn't pretty she wouldn't have won either. If Miki hadn't undergone that physical transformation after her 2006 Olympic meltdown, I hate to say this, but I wonder if she might not have won the world title in 07 (not to mention in 2011, when she was even leaner, skated in lingerie like costumes, and didn't even attempt any difficult jump combinations...).
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
That's exactly the point. If Lepisto was a plain, dumpy girl with the jumps she had, lovely Miki and John Travolta look-alike Phaneuf would have finished ahead of her.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
That's exactly the point. If Lepisto was a plain, dumpy girl with the jumps she had, lovely Miki and John Travolta look-alike Phaneuf would have finished ahead of her.

Yes but if Miki was a plain, dumpy girl, one could argue that angelic Mao and superstar Yuna would have finished ahead of her the 2 years she took gold by such a narrow margin.
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
That's exactly the point. If Lepisto was a plain, dumpy girl with the jumps she had, lovely Miki and John Travolta look-alike Phaneuf would have finished ahead of her.

Poor Phanny the Manny. I hope Brian Orser fixes her jumps, but also packages her in a way that accentuates her features. I like girls who are muscular, but her previous costumes have attempted to hide that, and it hasn't worked out well. I think with the right costume, her broad shoulders, large quadriceps, and ripped arms can be seen as a good feature, and evoke power, athleticism, and dynamic movements, rather than make her look like a passable transvestite.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I don't believe so. For her to improve upon this year she would have to beat all but one of: Ashley, Gracie, Mirai, Alyssa, and Caroline. That's a tall order because I think all (except Caroline) are superior skaters.

Any top skaters who skates decently at Nationals will easily beat Czisny. After the embarassment of Worlds the USFSA's love affair with her will be over for good, in fact she will receive Flatt like dumpage at Nationals next year even if she puts up a decent performance. Mirai has been on decline since Vancouver, and seems bored to be out there. Again if you cant beat her, it mostly means you are sucking, since Mirai isnt hard to beat right now. Ashley, Gracie, and Caroline are the mones ones to target.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Yeah but if we're going to use that argument, the girl she beat out for 3rd (Miki Ando) won 2 world titles and the argument could be made that if SHE wasn't pretty she wouldn't have won either. If Miki hadn't undergone that physical transformation after her 2006 Olympic meltdown, I hate to say this, but I wonder if she might not have won the world title in 07 (not to mention in 2011, when she was even leaner, skated in lingerie like costumes, and didn't even attempt any difficult jump combinations...).

I honestly never noticed a change in Miki's look since 2006. Well, she was slightly thinner, but I don't think it made her look any BETTER or WORSE. I always thought she looked decently pretty, never ugly or gorgeous.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I honestly never noticed a change in Miki's look since 2006. Well, she was slightly thinner, but I don't think it made her look any BETTER or WORSE. I always thought she looked decently pretty, never ugly or gorgeous.

Seriously?

2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOw7KoMz7s4

2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9U76uPa8Ss

2011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWKRUPYvJN8

Not only did she slim down and tone up, but her costumes and overall packaging 2007 on were more sexy/elegant in a westernized sense whereas in 2006 she looked frumpy and had that very harsh "asian" haircut.
 
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FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
That's exactly the point. If Lepisto was a plain, dumpy girl with the jumps she had, lovely Miki and John Travolta look-alike Phaneuf would have finished ahead of her.

My point was Lepisto wasn't the only pretty one among the trolls. If that was the case, I would attribute her bronze medal to her beauty. All 3 are desirable. Yes, there's a market for Cynthia look, believe it or not.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Whoa, you guys cynthia has a striking face- she has a very masculine physiqie, but most skaters have no breasts. Only the tiny Asian girls look good with no curves. It is natural and feminine. Miki looks like Sophia Loren. With all the Asian beauties in our sport, I never saw Miki as pretty at all. Taste I guess is so individual. Mao has those funny earlobes and is crosseyed but to me she is a beautiful butterfly-her tinny figure in periwinkle is so feminine and she moves so beautifully. Yuna is like a gazelle, a greyhound, a racehorse with those huge jumps and flexed feet that still look huge with beige bootcovers. She is a beautiful face, though, I'll bet among the prettiest korean women on the planet.

Cynthia has beautiful eyes. I agree the slicked hair does not make her look feminine. The prettiest skater right now is Ash but she skates with a power that is more yang than yin.

I never saw John Travolta while watching cynthia...that is the oddest comparison. I would say Travolta is in the news so maybe that is why he comes to mind. John was actually a beautiful young man, the eyes, the hair, the hips. Almost feminine in a way. Maybe we are just getting more androgenous as a culture? And it is obvious with athletes who are maxing their bodies out. I have often wondered if extreme exercise stops puberty in its tracks? Cynthia has an agnes type body. Is this a good thing in this glam sport? Tonya was never too petite as she didn't train but her face was girly and she looked girly despite the thighs. Tonya when thinner was really cute with those big blue eyes.

Wonder if she will push her son to skate to make up for her ruined career...oh, well.
 

Sylvia

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Re. the comment above "... Flatt like dumpage at Nationals...":
Flatt skated well in her 2012 Nationals free skate (her best performance of the season, landing 5 of 6 planned triples) and finished 4th in that segment. I thought she was scored fairly and received the marks she deserved.

Back to Agnes Z... with Christy Krall no longer coaching Patrick Chan, perhaps Zawadzki and Krall's other students will be receiving more time/attention and improvements will be noticeable in the coming season? We shall see.
 
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macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
macy judges give beauty points-look at alissa 's entire career. i rest my case-it is the glamour sport, like it or not.

yes it is, i've had firsthand experience unfortunately with other girls recieving beauty points. just IMO i wish it was solely based on the skating and nothing else.
 
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