- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Junior Grand Prix slots. Top three countries at Juniors get two skaters per GP. 4-6 get one. 7-10 get six slots over seven JGPs.
Canadian Ladies: Where do they go from here?
- Thread starter chuckm
- Start date
Of course, you do realize that of the skaters you mentioned, only Osmond is junior-eligible. Charbonneau and Najarro have aged out.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Oh, then I have no idea what the six slots refers to. I think your initial assumption was correct.
Sorry for being off on the GP slots. I was assuming that a Canadian Lady had an opportunity to go to 4 different GP plus able to send 2 more to Skate Canada. So from Chuckm, I am undertsanding that Lacoste may get an invitation to 1 GP plus Canada can send 3 to their own event? Even more support behind what I mentioned about for SC to be patient and develop from the JGP.
I realise that the names were all senior. I was thinking Canada could send 6 skaters to GP events (including 3 to SCI).
I realise that the names were all senior. I was thinking Canada could send 6 skaters to GP events (including 3 to SCI).
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- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Canada, at most, will have four slots on the GP circuit. LaCoste is guaranteed one slot. Skate Canada has three slots reserved for Canadian ladies.
So how does Skate Canada decide who geets what slots? Should Skate Canada use one of the summer comps as a qualifier (ie, Quebec, Thornhill, Minto, Wildrose)? Or do they rely on monitoring practice sessions and local competitions where there isn't much competition for the top 1-2-3 skaters? If Skate Canada wants to develop the young skaters it has to push more and tougher competition. Maybe pushing a competition in the US? Canadian skaters have to train and compete as if they are competing on the international stage and not just to win nationals. With that mindset, Nationals will eventually get tougher. It all takes time.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
That's a mystery. There's no real method except (a) they favour people who made the National team (top five at Nationals) or successful juniors competing as seniors internationally. There's currently talks about a Senior B in Salt Lake, I believe. If Skate Canada was smart, they would inundate Finlandia, Nebelhorn and Salt Lake (provisionally) with ladies.
Nepela is another early-season competition which does not draw top-level international skaters. The top 3 at Nepela 2011 (9/29-10/1):
Mae Berenice Meite
Shoko Ishikawa
Lena Marrocco
Other fall competitions which didn't draw top ladies:
Coupe de Nice 2011 (10/26-30):
Polina Agafonova
Natalia Popova
Anna Ovcharova
Ice Challenge 2011 (11/01-06):
Caroline Zhang
Natalia Popova
Linnea Mellgren
Skate Canada might want to consider sending ladies who don't get GP slots (including Osmond) to the last two competitions. Of course, that is if Skate Canada is willing to invest $$ in developing ladies. I have my doubts that they are.
Mae Berenice Meite
Shoko Ishikawa
Lena Marrocco
Other fall competitions which didn't draw top ladies:
Coupe de Nice 2011 (10/26-30):
Polina Agafonova
Natalia Popova
Anna Ovcharova
Ice Challenge 2011 (11/01-06):
Caroline Zhang
Natalia Popova
Linnea Mellgren
Skate Canada might want to consider sending ladies who don't get GP slots (including Osmond) to the last two competitions. Of course, that is if Skate Canada is willing to invest $$ in developing ladies. I have my doubts that they are.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
I share your doubts.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
If coaches and skaters are shooting for top five in Canada, they are aiming far too low. Last season, Amalie Lacoste was 22nd in the world, Cynthia Phaneuf was 41st. Surely those positions are not unassailable, You'd think any ambitious girl might hope to do better.
Of the lower-ranked international skaters mentioned here, Caroline Zhang was 12th in the world last season, Mae Berenice was 13th, Natalia Popova 25th, and Polina Agafonova 36th, worthy competition for any of our girls.
Of the lower-ranked international skaters mentioned here, Caroline Zhang was 12th in the world last season, Mae Berenice was 13th, Natalia Popova 25th, and Polina Agafonova 36th, worthy competition for any of our girls.
After 2009-2010 data is deleted and 2010-2011 is reduced to 70%, new World Rankings:
15 Meite
19 Lacoste
24 Phaneuf
25 C. Zhang
31 Popova
43 Agafonova
50 Marrocco
63 Mellgren
72 S. Ishikawa
112 Ovcharova
Seasons Best Rankings
09 176.18 C. Zhang
34 148.65 Agafonova
35 148.48 Lacoste
39 147.47 Phaneuf
41 146.25 Osmond
42 145.44 Meite
52 138.60 Popova
64 129.48 DeSanctis
66 128.66 Charbonneau
68 126.97 Marrocco
71 123.67 Purich
76 122.14 S. Ishikawa
No Seasons Best Rank (did not compete in JGP, GP or ISU Championship):
Mellgren
Ovcharova
15 Meite
19 Lacoste
24 Phaneuf
25 C. Zhang
31 Popova
43 Agafonova
50 Marrocco
63 Mellgren
72 S. Ishikawa
112 Ovcharova
Seasons Best Rankings
09 176.18 C. Zhang
34 148.65 Agafonova
35 148.48 Lacoste
39 147.47 Phaneuf
41 146.25 Osmond
42 145.44 Meite
52 138.60 Popova
64 129.48 DeSanctis
66 128.66 Charbonneau
68 126.97 Marrocco
71 123.67 Purich
76 122.14 S. Ishikawa
No Seasons Best Rank (did not compete in JGP, GP or ISU Championship):
Mellgren
Ovcharova
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
Sorry, I guess it's not correct to use the season's rankings from ISU page. I understood these to be th rankings from Past season only. If anyone wants to make the same mistake, they can find the season rankings on the ISU page. The world rankings can also be found there.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
Thanks, Chuckm, I wasn't actually musing about Grand Prix assignments. It would seem that those will be rather rare for our ladies this year, and I wouldn't want to make things look worse than they are.
I was just using those figures to see how the ladies stacked up in actual competitions last year, unaware that nobody else does that.
Minto has effectively become the Canadian equivalent Lake Placid competition for ice dance. The fields in the other disciplines are very weak but all the ice dancers show up.
One of the biggest problems with summer competitions is that with the exception of Thornhill, ( pre-novice to junior ) , there are no event finals where the fields are so large that the ladies have to be separated into multiple groups. Therefore the effective fields ( only those in the skater's group ) are diluted and weak. The best skaters almost never face off against each other.
It is not abnormal for a junior lady to win a group with nothing more than a double axel. And usually these ladies aren't even attempting triples as they do not even try them in warmup.
SC must insist on event finals at all events at all levels starting at pre-juvenile. The atmosphere of the best pushing each other must start early.
Hi Nadster. I believe event finals are a help, but not all disciplines have enough skaters involved to have an event, alone an event final. Senior Ladies at Wildrose last year had 8 skaters registered with only one skater actually arriving. I agree that the lower levels (Pre-Juv to Pre-Novice) have larger numbers and should have finals. By doing the finals though, the event organisers would lose money on the event as they will not be able to have as many skaters (time restrictions). Most of these events are major funding events for sections and clubs. More skaters = more funds. Skate Canada would have to mandate an event final before that would change.
Perhaps Skate Canada has to push Minto as the JGP "consideration" competition. If you don't compete there, you don't be considered. I understand as Canadians we try to be diplomatic and treat everyone the same. But when it comes to representing your country you have to hold "tryouts". Hockey Canada does it for Junior Hockey - camp in summer and another before Junior Worlds before team is selected. Skate Canada can use a summer comp and Nationals. We have the events, Skate Canada just has to push it. They can rotate events also between Minto, Quebec, BC, Wildrose, Thornhill. Or they could select skaters and push a US competition (Detroit, Liberty, etc).
Perhaps Skate Canada has to push Minto as the JGP "consideration" competition. If you don't compete there, you don't be considered. I understand as Canadians we try to be diplomatic and treat everyone the same. But when it comes to representing your country you have to hold "tryouts". Hockey Canada does it for Junior Hockey - camp in summer and another before Junior Worlds before team is selected. Skate Canada can use a summer comp and Nationals. We have the events, Skate Canada just has to push it. They can rotate events also between Minto, Quebec, BC, Wildrose, Thornhill. Or they could select skaters and push a US competition (Detroit, Liberty, etc).
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Country
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Liberty is almost a Canadian home away from home, since it is the working location of Uschi Kessler, Elvis Stojko's choreographer, and her Hydroblade institute.
There are always quite a few Canadians competing at Liberty summer competition, both in singles & pairs.
And it looks like there will be a Senior b in Salt Lake City this year. Perhaps Canadian ladies could compete there?
Finally, Skate Canada should get a Senior B started in Canada.
There are always quite a few Canadians competing at Liberty summer competition, both in singles & pairs.
And it looks like there will be a Senior b in Salt Lake City this year. Perhaps Canadian ladies could compete there?
Finally, Skate Canada should get a Senior B started in Canada.
I do agree that at the junior and senior levels that there should be a central competition that is at least heavily weighted for assignments.
The event finals IMO are most important at the lower levels. ( ie pre-novice and below ). One extra flight to skate the free only should not be too much of a burden when you have had 7 flights of ladies already skating SP and free. Consdiering in a 4 day event ( length of a summer competition in larger sections where multiple flights is an issue) , the lower level events are usually held on Thursday, Friday, it should not be too much of a burden to put one extra flight on a Saturday or Sunday.
Thornhill years ago used to have event finals at all levels and then it disappeared. They reintroduced them from pre-novice to junior 2 years ago.
SC did plan last year to get a senior B started in Thornhill but aborted the plan at the last minute ( why I don't know ). If one is in SLC, I doubt that Canada will follow with one.
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- Joined
- Aug 23, 2003
Event finals would add minimal costs to the event. It's one or two warm-up groups flights of ladies from Pre-Juvenile to Senior. Long Programs only. If there is only one flight of Sr. Ladies, then nothing is changed, but it is critical that the lower levels have the opportunity to compete against the best at their level. The rest of the disciplines are all finals
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Canada has always had some capable ladies. There are several problems however. First,there seems to be the attitude that multiple local medals are what brings you to SC notice rather than how those medals were obtained(or not). Hence few are inclined to put themselves up against major competition rather than stay home and medal. Second,SC needs to take the brakes off the judges and reign in local Sections and let a good prospect challenge or even maul the Phaneufs or other favoured skaters. It is no coincidence that we tend to have had weak skaters dominate up to seven years while really capable skaters get frustrated and leave the sport. There needs to be identification and group travel arrangements for top competitions for younger skaters, and yes,ALL competitions need to have a final flight. Also,seminars need to be taken out of the hands of local Sections and their politics where skaters showing promise are sent to work with Juveniles while less talented skaters favoured over them receive useless (for them) top coaching experiences.
