ISU Scale of Values, Levels of Difficulty and Guidelines for GOEs for 2012-13 | Page 2 | Golden Skate

ISU Scale of Values, Levels of Difficulty and Guidelines for GOEs for 2012-13

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mskater93

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Whenever I watch an ISI competition, she seems to be the most overplayed musician. I once heard (no joke) a synchro program that started with Katy Perry, middle section of Chicago, ending with Meditation from Thais. I wanted to tear my eardrums out!
Yuck! I usually end up judging our club's basic skills competition and I heard "Fireworks" no less than 4 times in a group of six, one program was "Fireworks" cut with the 1812 Overture. Really?! Then, you get the Disney assortment to go with it. Ugh! Maybe we get a Gaga, a Katy Perry, and a Disney program if they allow vocal music. LOL!
 

blue dog

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Yuck! I usually end up judging our club's basic skills competition and I heard "Fireworks" no less than 4 times in a group of six, one program was "Fireworks" cut with the 1812 Overture. Really?! Then, you get the Disney assortment to go with it. Ugh! Maybe we get a Gaga, a Katy Perry, and a Disney program if they allow vocal music. LOL!

I went to State Games, and a skater did just that! Her Disney song was Part of Your World from the Little Mermaid, and she had "Love You Like a Love Song" by Selena Gomez. I wanted to cry--why would a coach do that to a student?
 

Boeing787

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Another proposal is to allow vocal music in singles and pairs after 2014. I don't think I like that so much. I wouldn't want the singing to overshadow the skating.

good. I have always been wondering why vocal music is allowed for ice dancing but not singles and pairs. so unfair.
 

Violet Bliss

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What caught my first attention are

1. One foot skating is no more a Level feature for Step Sequence.

2. GOE guideline for Choreographic sequences:

1) good flow, energy and execution
2) good speed or acceleration during sequence
3) good clarity and precision
4) good control and commitment of whole body
5) creativity and originality
6) effortless throughout
7) reflecting concept/character of the program
8) element matched to the musical structure

Half of the quality points are on "artistry".


In Remarks:

Choreographic Sequences consist of any kind of movements such as steps, turns, spirals, arabesques, spread eagles, Ina Bauers, hydroblading, transitional (unlisted) jumps, spinning movements etc. A Choreographic Sequence for Ladies/Pairs must include at least one spiral (not a kick) of any llenght (by both partners for Pairs). The Sequence commences with the first move and is concluded with the last move of the skater. The pattern is not restricted, but the Sequence must fully utilize the ice surface. If this requirement is not fulfilled, the Sequence will have no value. The Choreographic Sequence is included in Free Skating and for Singles has to be performed after the step sequence. The choreographic Sequence has a base value and will be evaluated by the judges in GOE only.

I don't find the BV for Choreographic Sequence.

I wonder how much time a slow skater will need to devote to the Choreo Sequence in order to fully utilize the ice surface.

3. Positive GOEs are worth more points than negative GOEs in spins. Not sure if this is new.
 
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Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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"Must fully utilize the ice surface" is very vague. If taken literally that means the sequence needs to cover every inch of the ice rink. I very much dislike how the "choreography sequence" MUST come after the leveled step sequence as well.

The answer to fixing that problem is obvious: don't have a leveled step sequence in the Long Program at all. Only have it in the Short Program and instead have two "Choreography Sequences" in the Long Program (ie - the FREE SKATE, as it is still officially named).

Here's a good thing about the rule changes: spinning for 8+ revolutions in the same position now only counts as a difficult variation once per program! YAY!!!!
 

gkelly

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What caught my first attention are

1. One foot skating is no more a Level feature for Step Sequence.

I guess too many skaters were able to accomplish this, albeit poorly in many cases, for them to want to reward it automatically in the base value. But now where can judges reward it if done well? Under Skating Skills?

2. GOE guideline for Choreographic sequences:

Half of the quality points are on "artistry".

Which seems to be the attempt to get skaters to focus on using this sequence for artistic purposes and not just racking up points.

Although requiring the choreo sequence to take place after the step sequence does limit the options.

Again, I'm not sure the way the +GOE bullets are worded that there's any place for judges to reward extra difficulty performed satisfactorily. However, as long as it isn't just going back and doing a 2006-10-style level 4 spiral sequence, hopefully difficulty here would also show some originality and could be rewarded on that criterion.

I don't find the BV for Choreographic Sequence.

2.0 base value. It's the last item listed under "Step and Choreographic Sequences" in the singles Scale of Values.

I wonder how much time a slow skater will need to devote to the Choreo Sequence in order to fully utilize the ice surface.

Depends what they want to do with it. If they're slow because they don't have many skills, then they can choose a fairly simple end-to-end pattern with shallow edges and/or extra crossovers between every position or edge. Shouldn't take more than 15-20 seconds.

If they're slow because they're doing complicated edge skills and weaving back and forth, then it will take longer. But if they actually have some skills to showcase, then why not take the time to do so?

3. It seems all falls in all elements receive -3 GOE points each, regardless of BV.

Where do you get that from? The GOE error chart hasn't changed as far as falls go. There's a required reduction of -3 from what the GOE would have been otherwise and the final GOE must be negative -- in most cases it will end up being -3 -- and that's prorated according to the Scale of Values. No change from last year.
 

Violet Bliss

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^^^^ I deleted and changed my third observation when I realized it was GOEs, just as before, not actual points that my dim mind first thought. :eek::

Skaters need to demonstrate good skating skills but not complexity in the Choreo Sequence. I expect some slow but expressive skaters to do quite a bit of acting while going end to end in a straight line, if that counts as fully utilizing the ice surface. If I were a less skilled skater, I would really want that clarified because total element value is on the line.

All in all, I think the Choreo Sequence is where a skater is supposed to really try to sell the program, especially since it will inevitably be near the end of a program, leaving the last impression. It's the place to score the PCS too.

I hope the skaters and their choreographers will fully take advantage of the "creativity" bullet for the CS. Everybody, performers and audiences, will enjoy the sport more.
 
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Serious Business

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Background on vocals in singles and pair skating music:

There was no rule against vocals with lyrics prior to 1990! It was just tradition. In 1990, several senior skaters started using vocal music. And what did these dastardly rebels use? Opera. Nessun Dorma was one of them. So the ISU, after picking up their monocles, quickly passed a rule to ban vocals. Thus forcing us to listen to Vanessa Mae's violin version of Nessun Dorma forever more.

In 1997, jive was the OD rhythm in ice dancing. Because it was so hard to find jive music without vocals, the ISU relented and allowed vocals in the OD. And after seeing that the discipline wasn't completely destroyed by vocal music, the ISU unclenched even more and started allowing vocals in all segments of ice dancing.

And now, 14 years later, they deign to consider allowing vocals in the rest of figure skating. :rolleye: I'd say it's about time... if it was a decade ago.
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
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Background on vocals in singles and pair skating music:

There was no rule against vocals with lyrics prior to 1990! It was just tradition. In 1990, several senior skaters started using vocal music. And what did these dastardly rebels use? Opera. Nessun Dorma was one of them. So the ISU, after picking up their monocles, quickly passed a rule to ban vocals. Thus forcing us to listen to Vanessa Mae's violin version of Nessun Dorma forever more.

In 1997, jive was the OD rhythm in ice dancing. Because it was so hard to find jive music without vocals, the ISU relented and allowed vocals in the OD. And after seeing that the discipline wasn't completely destroyed by vocal music, the ISU unclenched even more and started allowing vocals in all segments of ice dancing.

And now, 14 years later, they deign to consider allowing vocals in the rest of figure skating. :rolleye: I'd say it's about time... if it was a decade ago.

what you propose is scary business! What if they start using horrible pop music? I don't want to see a program to Justin Bieber.
 

ImaginaryPogue

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They also removed the shape/pattern from the step sequence definition: no such thing as serpentine/circular/straight-line.
 
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OK, that's awful.

Here is the argument in favor of classical music. If a young person wants to hear Justin Bieber he can tune in his smart iphone thingy to the Justin-Bieber-all-the-time-download-stream (there's an app for that) -- or go to a Justin Bieber concert. Why confuse the issue with Huzura Hanyu schlumphing along on ice skates?

On the other hand, how often do we actually get up and take our kids to a performance of Swan Lake? If we can somehow get children to watch an ice skating competition, that may be their only chance ever to hear Carmen. Then when they hear it again next week, it's like, hey, I know that song. :)
 
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gkelly

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Jul 26, 2003
I wouldn't argue in favor of classical music. I love a good program to melodic jazz, rock instrumentals, folk instruments, etc., as well as classical. Variety is a good thing.

I have reservations about lyrics for several reasons.

*They distract from focusing on the skating as part of the viewer's brain is engaged in listening to the words. (This is probably even more true if the listener doesn't already know the song -- or if it's in a language they understand partially but not automatically.)
*In international competition, it divides the audience between those who understand the language being sung and those who don't.
*Skaters may be tempted to interpret the content of the words with upper body gestures rather than to interpret the rhythms and nuances of the music through full-body movement.
*It's harder to cut vocal music to fit the needs of the program for time limits, pacing, and build, because cuts from one verse to another, and especially from the beginning of one verse to the end of another with the same melody (which could work well in an instrumental version, will destroy the sense of the story and will often destroy rhyme schemes.
*For this reason, there may be more temptation just to choose a song that's the right length and use it unedited, which respects the composer and lyricist better but may not serve the skater as well if the song lacks variety from beginning to end. I.e., the skating serving the music rather than the music serving the skating.
*Musically unsophisticated skaters and coaches may see this as encouragement just to choose a favorite song and skate to it without considering how it fits the structure of a competitive program.

I'm sure we'd see some great programs from thoughtful skaters and choreographers who judiciously choose vocal selections that work well for competitive freestyle skating and cut and choreograph appropriately.

I just hope that there would be more of those and few decisions to throw the right number of jumps, spins, etc., into last summer's hit pop song.
 
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Jun 21, 2003
^ I am going to pretend I said that. That's what I would have said if I had your skating acumen and writing skills. :)
 

Violet Bliss

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Nov 19, 2010
The reason for using vocals is also the main cause for concerns, which is that more people understand, interpret, and relate to words than music (especially the more sophisticated forms). At times skaters may choose between skating to the music or the words of a song. Often interpreting and acting the lyrics will be easier and more tempting than interpreting and skating to the music. It can also be more easily appealing emotionally and entertaining to the audience. I am all for appealing to and entertaining the audience, but not as a way to undercut real skating skills and technical difficulties. It can also be distracting for a spectator with division of attention unless there is a perfect congruence of music, lyrics, and performance via skating. And what about the most stripped down of "music", to just beats? There is definitely more "lyrics" than musical notes in rap.

As well, songs will likely be chosen in the most universally understood languages to current skating fans, having a somewhat limiting effect amidst a wide varied global song selection. OTOH, watching a program skated to incomprehensible vocals will not have the distracting effect so permitting lyrics will widen the choice of music without the common concerns. The vocals will be just another instrument used in the music.

I suspect, as with every other criteria of judgement and enjoyment, the superior and the lower level skaters will differentiate themselves in the performance and execution of their programs, with or without lyrics.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
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what you propose is scary business! What if they start using horrible pop music? I don't want to see a program to Justin Bieber.

Personally I have always wondered why they don't have a mandatory -3 deduction rule for horrible music taste! Or horrible program. This will surely dramatically improved everyone's program next year!

On the other hand I welcome the change to include the optional VOCALs in the music.
Like anything to do art with creativity, it is just an extra set of tools available with your blank canvas to equip you the freedom to pick and choose... it should not distract unless the choreography and the skater failed to sell their artistic interpretation.

There are millions of people appreciate use of lyrics in all fields of music not in their own language and even if they don't know what they mean they are still perfectly capable of moved by it and appreciate it. That is the power of great music expression and interpretation. It breaks down these barriers and make art alive, breathing, universal and appealing. You don't need to speak the language to able to enjoy Edith Piaf, Billy Holiday, Puccini operas, Aboriginal folk songs when the skaters is on ice to make them work. Nor should you get distracted otherwise they are not doing their job well.

I actually think the audience would enjoy being a bit more challenged rather than being distracted by this change. The crowd deserve a little more credit than just watching skating for entertainment. People goto Theatre, goto Shakespeare plays not because they completely understand it, but because they learn something, and it broaden their horizon. If they find it interesting, they may do research more about it after to appreciate the performance and the choreography even more. It can broaden new audiences and is a good relaxed rule for the sport.
 
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