Tran's naturalization process hits snag | Golden Skate

Tran's naturalization process hits snag

gsk8

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Jun 21, 2003
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Canadian pairs figure skater Mervin Tran's hopes of obtaining Japanese citizenship hit a snag on Tuesday after the justice ministry frowned on making an exception for the world bronze medalist.

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Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
It's a catch 22. Tran is considered for citizenship on account of his contribution honouring Japan but to do so he had to train outside of Japan, thus not fulfilling the residency requirement.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
It's a long shot anyway. It just doesn't make sense to get a citizenship for a country which you have no personal connectio with.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Sep 14, 2008
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He doesn't speak the language. If he spoke the language, that would go a looooong way.
 

redwing

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Apr 20, 2012
It will be interesting to see if he does get citizenship and what will happen if he doesn't.

He won't get citizenship, I said before this was all just a political move by the JSF to save face for their own ineptitude. Life will go on in Japan as it does everyday if he doesn't.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I did a bit of research. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, Japan isn't generally a country that welcomes new citizens. It's small in terms of available land, so it's not really looking to build its population, and it's not multi-ethnic, multilingual, or multicultural as the U.S., Canada, Australia, and some other countries are. From what many on GS have said, granting citizenship to non-natives with no Japanese ancestry is a rare event. I haven't been able to find any statistics showing how many new citizenships Japan grants each year. Also, apparently Tran would not be able to retain his Canadian citizenship if he were to become a Japanese citizen. I believe a GS poster mentioned this point earlier, and I found an article that confirms this.

It would probably be easier for Takahashi to get Canadian citizenship than for Tran to become a Japanese citizen, though of course the pairs situation is much more favorable for these two in Japan. This might turn out to be one of those times when wishes don't come true, at least in terms of Olympic eligibility. Well, you can't fault Tran for trying.

I think the JSF would be better off nurturing a young Japanese pair for the future--something they should be doing anyway. They obviously have many wonderful skaters and coaches. Their next step is to branch out from singles.
 
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Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
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Aug 18, 2010
You are right, Olympia! It's so difficult to apply for Japanese citizenship. I don't think Japan will open this door for this reason. It's JSF's move to just prove that they've done their best. And there is nothing more they can do.
 
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clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Olympia;643014 It would probably be easier for Takahashi to get Canadian citizenship than for Tran to become a Japanese citizen said:
It'll be interesting to see what happens if Tran can't get citizenship in Japan. Would Narumi Takahashi then consider applying for Canadian citizenship?

I'm guessing there are big financial considerations involved. I assume (though I don't know for sure) that the Japanese federation is probably a lot richer than the Canadian federation and provides better support for them financially. But I'm guessing the biggest barrier is political. It's not that big of a deal for a Canadian skater to switch to America or vice versa; it's been done numerous times in recent years. But I think it's a very, very big deal for a Japanese skater to renounce citizenship for another country. The only example of this is Yuko Kavaguti, and IIRC, I don't think she changed citizenship until she and Smirnov had won medals at the highest level (Euros/Worlds). Narumi is now in a similar situation to Yuko; would she make a similar change?
 

phaeljones

On the Ice
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Apr 18, 2012
I did a bit of research. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, Japan isn't generally a country that welcomes new citizens . . .

It would probably be easier for Takahashi to get Canadian citizenship . . . Well, you can't fault Tran for trying.

I think the JSF would be better off nurturing a young Japanese pair for the future--something they should be doing anyway. They obviously have many wonderful skaters and coaches. Their next step is to branch out from singles.

Yes. Agreed.

Looks rather impossible for Tran to become a Japanese citizen, and, quite rightly, JSF's job is to promote skating in Japan. But adding to this perspective, JSF and skaters in Japan should feel some gratitude to Tran and Takahashi because they represent a big first break-through in pairs skating under the Japan banner. They are the "it" pair in Japan right now, at least for the forseeable short-term, and because of them, other pairs skaters in Japan will be inspired. If for anyone, surely there is an argument that they deserve continued support.
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Canadian pairs figure skater Mervin Tran's hopes of obtaining Japanese citizenship hit a snag on Tuesday after the justice ministry frowned on making an exceptionfor the world bronze medalist.

Who didn’t see that coming?

It would probably be easier for Takahashi to get Canadian citizenship than for Tran to become a Japanese citizen, though of course the pairs situation is much more favorable for these two in Japan. This might turn out to be one of those times when wishes don't come true, at least in terms of Olympic eligibility. Well, you can't fault Tran for trying.

I think the JSF would be better off nurturing a young Japanese pair for the future--something they should be doing anyway. They obviously have many wonderful skaters and coaches. Their next step is to branch out from singles.

It would be much easier for her but even if she started now she probably won't get citizenship until after 2014 and that's IF they make the Canadian Olympic team.

I'm guessing there are big financial considerations involved. I assume (though I don't know for sure) that the Japanese federation is probably a lot richer than the Canadian federation and provides better support for them financially. But I'm guessing the biggest barrier is political. It's not that big of a deal for a Canadian skater to switch to America or vice versa; it's been done numerous times in recent years. But I think it's a very, very big deal for a Japanese skater to renounce citizenship for another country. The only example of this is Yuko Kavaguti, and IIRC, I don't think she changed citizenship until she and Smirnov had won medals at the highest level (Euros/Worlds). Narumi is now in a similar situation to Yuko; would she make a similar change?

Yuko was a different story, her former partner (Markuntsov) couldn't get Japanese citizenship either; so she decided to become Russian long before she and Smirnov started winning big medals. It was her only option if she wanted to go the Olympics and since it was her dream to skate at that competition. She gave up her citizenship verses just skipping it and skating for two separate countries, which is what they could have done. It's too bad, they were so close to a medal.
 

sorcerer

Final Flight
Joined
May 1, 2007
Please correct me if I'm wrong, ..... Also, apparently Tran would not be able to retain his Canadian citizenship if he were to become a Japanese citizen. I believe a GS poster mentioned this point earlier, and I found an article that confirms this.

Like I wrote before, it's by "Article 9" of the Nationality Act of Japan that Tran is being planned by a large number of Diet members to be given citizenship, and this Article 9 DOES NOT require Tran to lose Canadian citizenship at all. Moreover, it even doesn't require Tran to apply for it.
This type of Japanese Citizenship, though never put in act before, is determined solely by the will of the Diet, formally speaking, as a "gift".

If it were obtaining Japanese citizenship using the other clauses, then yes Tran would lose Canadian citizenship, but those other clauses won't let him apply because of language and residence.
But no, this is nothing about losing Canadian citizenship.
 

chuckm

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Aug 31, 2003
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United-States
Maybe there are a few politicians backing citizenship for Tran, but I can't imagine the entire Diet would go for granting citizenship to a person who doesn't speak or write Japanese, has no Japanese ancestors, and has never resided in Japan, and at the same time allowing this new 'citizen' to have dual citizenship, which is NOT allowed for any other Japanese citizen.

NOT going to happen.

If Tran were a volcanologist or seismologist who had a foolproof method of predicting earthquakes and ways to prevent damage from same, maybe that would be valuable enough to grant such an anomaly. A pie in the sky Olympic medal is just not any incentive at all.
 

carriecmu0503

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
It's not that big of a deal for a Canadian skater to switch to America or vice versa; it's been done numerous times in recent years. But I think it's a very, very big deal for a Japanese skater to renounce citizenship for another country. The only example of this is Yuko Kavaguti, and IIRC, I don't think she changed citizenship until she and Smirnov had won medals at the highest level (Euros/Worlds). Narumi is now in a similar situation to Yuko; would she make a similar change?[/QUOTE]

Rena Inoue also gave up her Japanese citizenship to compete in the Olympics with John Baldwin. I remember the commentators saying at 2006 Nationals that giving up Japanese citizenship was a very hard decision for her.
 

redwing

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 20, 2012
Like I wrote before, it's by "Article 9" of the Nationality Act of Japan that Tran is being planned by a large number of Diet members to be given citizenship, and this Article 9 DOES NOT require Tran to lose Canadian citizenship at all. Moreover, it even doesn't require Tran to apply for it.
This type of Japanese Citizenship, though never put in act before, is determined solely by the will of the Diet, formally speaking, as a "gift".

If it were obtaining Japanese citizenship using the other clauses, then yes Tran would lose Canadian citizenship, but those other clauses won't let him apply because of language and residence.
But no, this is nothing about losing Canadian citizenship.

I'm surprised people keep bringing this up. You do realize Article 9 is reserved for someone of Japanese ethnicity who is not a citizen ? It's not explicitly stated as such due to political reasons but it will never be invoked for a foreigner. The Japanese have a very strong sense of national unity, if you were to ask the average Japanese what race they view themselves, they would answer Japanese, not asian.

Non Japanese may think this view strange but it's really simple. A Japanese citizen is nothing without his country, and everything that makes Japan unique, the culture, language, history and identity must be preserved otherwise it is in constant danger of being lost. This is not extremist as every Japanese citizen regardless of political party, devotes themselves to Japan to prevent such disappearance. Every Japanese citizen contributes what they can for the nation, whether they are soldiers to guard the borders, businessmen to earn money for their nation, artists to express the nation's creativity, and athletes to display the nation's physical prowess.

People remark how well Japanese people handled the earthquake/tsunami disaster and nuclear calamity without mass chaos. Maybe some understand why after what i just wrote.
 
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StellaCampo

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Like I wrote before, it's by "Article 9" of the Nationality Act of Japan that Tran is being planned by a large number of Diet members to be given citizenship, and this Article 9 DOES NOT require Tran to lose Canadian citizenship at all. .

I had a quick look at this Nationality Act and Art. 9 but I cannot work out how you arrived at the conclusion that Art.9 does not require Tran to lose Canadian Citizenship. All that Art 9 says is that it allows Art. 5, Clause 1 to be overriden, ie the 5 year residency requirement. Art. 9 does NOT say that it overrides Art. 5, Clause 5 (condition either that the person currently has no nationality or that he shall lose his current nationality). Anyway, this is a FS forum not a legal forum!!
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
I'm surprised people keep bringing this up. You do realize Article 9 is reserved for someone of Japanese ethnicity who is not a citizen ? It's not explicitly stated as such due to political reasons but it will never be invoked for a foreigner. The Japanese have a very strong sense of national unity, if you were to ask the average Japanese what race they view themselves, they would answer Japanese, not asian.

Non Japanese may think this view strange but it's really simple. A Japanese citizen is nothing without his country, and everything that makes Japan unique, the culture, language, history and identity must be preserved otherwise it is in constant danger of being lost. This is not extremist as every Japanese citizen regardless of political party, devotes themselves to Japan to prevent such disappearance. Every Japanese citizen contributes what they can for the nation, whether they are soldiers to guard the borders, businessmen to earn money for their nation, artists to express the nation's creativity, and athletes to display the nation's physical prowess.

People remark how well Japanese people handled the earthquake/tsunami disaster and nuclear calamity without mass chaos. Maybe some understand why after what i just wrote.

Well, in that cause couldn't you argue that is what Tran has done here? By pairing up with Narumi, he has enabled her to express the nation's physical prowess to the best of her ability.

I find it interesting that Japan (as a whole) seem keen on being picky about citizenship as a way to preserve culture/pride but yet they the JSF thinks nothing about sending its skaters to foreign coaches.
 

redwing

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 20, 2012
Well, in that cause couldn't you argue that is what Tran has done here? By pairing up with Narumi, he has enabled her to express the nation's physical prowess to the best of her ability.

I find it interesting that Japan (as a whole) seem keen on being picky about citizenship as a way to preserve culture/pride but yet they the JSF thinks nothing about sending its skaters to foreign coaches.

You make it sound like foreign coaches are doing this just out of pure goodness, or that foreign coaches will stop taking Japanese skaters unless Tran receives citizenship. The reality is noone forced them and they are being compensated for their services and in some cases very well. It is a mutual beneficial arrangement and really has no bearing on Japanese policy regarding citizenship.

How many years has Tran represented Japan ? 5 years ongoing and he still doesn't speak the language. Japan has enough problems now that average Japanese person doesn't care about Tran. Japanese cares about the nation and unity. People keep making circular arguments of what about this, or why not this, or how come that, but the bottom line is he won't get citizenship.
 

chuckm

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Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
It's quite easy to get Canadian citizenship for the simple reason that Canada is a very large country with a very small population (about 1/10 of the US population). Canada welcomes immigrants and makes the citizenship process fairly simple: residence is required for three of the four years preceding the application, and special accommodations can be made for people of unusual ability. Every year, 170,000 people become Canadian citizens.
 
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