Weir to do quads in both programs; hires Morozov for step seq | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Weir to do quads in both programs; hires Morozov for step seq

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I totally agree with you noskates. No one should count Johnny out! If Johnny got true quads, he is in for a good chance as anyone. I have always thought people places too much importance on past history instead of looking at the present and the future. If skating history taught us, is never count anyone out, and ice is a slippery game.

Johnny is a bona fide star who is capable of greatness and one of the last few at least attempt to reach new level of original artistry (regardless of whether it suit my taste). With his newly found personal happiness and fulfillment, i expect he can bring his mojo back and make a fresh new start. Yes 27 seems a tough age and he definitely faces an up hill struggle, but men's figure skating need someone like Johnny to rough the feathers a bit, otherwise it is too boring to watch. He makes up more personality for the entire USA team + Russia. With Plushy coming back, Evan arch nemisis too, Men's tournament is going to be super exciting next year. With the old guards vs the new crop of challengers.

I for one can't wait to see how Hanyu compete against him, and the degree of their subtle differences and similarity. It would be totally fun to comparing them! Original vs. New improved? Vs Johnny 2.0? Wish him the best and look forward to the showdown. I just want him to beat Evan regardless of medals.

Well said os168.

The thing for me is that Johnny has little to gain, from a financial standpoint, to coming back. He long built a brand for himself outside of skating — pretty much all my non-skater friends could identify Johnny but yet not know much about Evan, even if he's the current OGM in figure skating — so I don't see why Johnny would need to invest all this time in a comeback if there wasn't some desire to compete.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
noskates, I never write anyone off. Also I try to see things as they are, regardless of my fandom. Lysacek, e.g. is not my cup of tea in skating style, personality, or looks, but I acknowledge his competitiveness and his success. I don't care for Morozov either, but I did look at his records and other facts and figured he must have a lot to offer his students, as I said so when Dai's fans were angsting about his reunion with Daisuke. FWIW, I'm pretty hated by some of Daisuke's fans in this forum.

As for competition results, I believe it's up to the skaters to bring it on the ice on the day, whatever leading up to the competition, no matter the talents, hard work, reputation, health, emotional state, and least of all, personal fandoms. We choose whom we like, win or loose, but we don't determine who wins or loses.

I was an instant fan of Johnny when I watched him the first time a few years ago. With his posture and carriage, he was really an ice prince. As I found out more about his quirkiness, I thought he was a really interesting character. The personality has worn out for me and I don't care for his show programs. Anybody can love his personality and show programs as they wish, but he is coming back to competition, so we are discussing him in terms of competitiveness and the possibilities of his delivering what he promises. As usual, people project the future by looking at the past while taking into consideration current status of things. Quite a few who are being realistic about Johnny's prospects like to be proven wrong as well.

The main reason I don't think he is as dedicated as someone like Takahashi is how he lacks conviction in his talks, hedging with talks about federation support and scoring system, being ambivalent about medalling and compliance with COP, etc. In contrast, Patrick and Daisuke are always clear about their goals. They talk about improving themselves and they do it. They adapt positively whatever situation they find themselves in and they always take responsibilities for themselves. Their success support my belief that they have the winners' mindset.
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Ahhhhhh - Skatefiguring. We have MUCH MUCH more in common than I would have thought at first. Let me count the ways:

o I try to see things as they are, regardless of my fandom
o Lysacek, e.g. is not my cup of tea in skating style, personality, or looks
I might add that I think he's arrogant and pompous!
o FWIW, I'm pretty hated by some of Daisuke's fans in this forum.
I'm pretty certain I would be as well if I posted what I really thought!

And your last paragraph, I can understand where you're coming from. But I don't think Johnny is too introspective or glib! He doesn't "play the game" of being the good little skater boy who says all the right things. And that's purposeful on his part! And you very well may be right that his commitment to this comeback is different than Dai's or Patrick's. But both of those guys have colored within the lines all along. I would expect them to say the right things. I never know what's going to come out of Johnny's mouth and neither does he half the time.

I've enjoyed this discussion. And I think we'll have alot to talk about once the GP's start. I think if nothing else, honestly, Johnny is going to generate interest that seems to have been lacking since the Olympics.

Just one more little note - I disagree with whomever didn't feel Adam Rippon was a contender (my words) I watched Adam at the practice rink in San Jose and then, of course, the competition. He has a fluid motion when he skates, a very tight rotation in his jumps, and with the right choreography and something a little more uplifting and less dreary in his music selection, I think he's right in there for the US. I look forward to watching him this year.
 

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
I totally agree with you noskates.

Johnny is a bona fide star who is capable of greatness and one of the last few at least attempt to reach new level of original artistry (regardless of whether it suit my taste). With his newly found personal happiness and fulfillment, i expect he can bring his mojo back and make a fresh new start. Yes 27 seems a tough age and he definitely faces an up hill struggle, but men's figure skating need someone like Johnny to rough the feathers a bit, otherwise it is too boring to watch. He makes up more personality for the entire USA team + Russia. With Plushy coming back, Evan arch nemisis too, Men's tournament is going to be super exciting next year. With the old guards vs the new crop of challengers.

:rock::rock:

btw, I am rooting for Ross Miner among the current US new generations ever since I saw his smily smiles :) as if he were in heaven at his first Grand Prix podium finish at NHK Trophy and aonther podium finish at 4CC last season! :party:
I love his skating, and I can see his determination, a calmer one but to the same degree as Evan's. :yes:
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Thanks for the link! As it was two-footed it does not count as a successful quad, in my opinion.

A two-footed quad is worth 8.3 points, or a bit more, under the current scoring system. That's 5 points greater than a 2Axel, which is what you have to do if you don't have a quad. So, it does count. A lot.
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
i'm so excited for his comeback, i hope it will be epic and that the quads do happen. even if he doesn't go to the olympics again or win another national title or even a medal, i'm fine with just watching the beauty of his skating.
 

LuCN

Rinkside
Joined
May 3, 2011
Plus he is a COP master and knows what to do to win within the rules, which Weir is not, though he is making an effort, as indicated by hiring Morozov to help with his step sequence. But there is no total dedication and conviction, thus still all the preemptive rebellious claims. Takahashi, OTOH, is clear and determined on his goal, willing to do what it takes, which is carefully thought out, without ever dissing his rivals. There is a big difference in their mindsets and mental strengths.

Going with Johnny's records and recent words, competitive he is not. Not on ice. However, he has been reporting on how hard he is training these days, so it will be very interesting to see if he will be skating as well as his hay days, or better, and how COP compliant he may be.

I'm NOT agree with you.Weir is a COP friendly skater,all his medals are under COP.COP make him can get medal, if under 6.0 he didn't have quads in the international competitions,then he may not able to get those marks.and he got many gold and other color medals on GPs too.

and his PCS isn't bad at all,though I think he should got better PCS than Plushenko and Evan.

which I can't understand is,people here all want to see Plushenko and Evan come back again.I think both of them are boring and mainly for the medals.none of them can bring new things to the sports.:rolleye:
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Does it even really matter how CoP-compliant a skater's programs are? Personally, I can think of some skaters who have very obviously CoP-uncompliant programs and they nonetheless score huge PCS and have won Olympic and world medals under CoP....even gold ones.

Anyway, I too am glad to see Johnny come back, quad or no quad. I only hope that his reality TV show is still going on and they get lots of interesting behind-the-scenes skating footage.
 
Last edited:

LuCN

Rinkside
Joined
May 3, 2011
Does it even really matter how CoP-compliant a skater's programs are? Personally, I can think of some skaters who have very obviously CoP-uncompliant programs and they nonetheless score huge PCS and have won Olympic and world medals....even gold ones.
good point :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
nowadays PCS has none business with the programs themselves :disapp:
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Weir is a COP friendly skater,all his medals are under COP.COP make him can get medal, if under 6.0 he didn't have quads in the international competitions,then he may not able to get those marks.and he got many gold and other color medals on GPs too.

and his PCS isn't bad at all,though I think he should got better PCS than Plushenko and Evan.

Firstly, as I have compiled, Weir didn't have that many medals.

And here is what ISU thought of his Transitions circa 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoPfHsPs-Nk&list=PL257ED6826B33795A&index=2&feature=plpp_video

I may not like Evan's skating, but his programs were filled with COP points.

Plushenko was used as an example of lack of transition as well but it was removed before the last Olympics. Weir is not Plushenko.
 
Last edited:

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Does it even really matter how CoP-compliant a skater's programs are? Personally, I can think of some skaters who have very obviously CoP-uncompliant programs and they nonetheless score huge PCS and have won Olympic and world medals under CoP....even gold ones.

The latest 5 Worlds gold medals went to Chan, Takahashi, Lysacek, and Buttle, all COP champions.

There are five components to PCS. Transitions of the lack of them are more obvious but weakness in one component may be made up in others such as Skating Skills. These days the podium contenders are very COP savvy. Even Plushenko with his legend bonus is looking to adapt and adopt more COP friendly programs. He lost the OGM to Lysacek because of insufficient attention to COP.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I am not sure Evan would be considered a real "COP" champion. Many would say it is an insult to compare him to Tak, Buttle, Lambiel or Chan who are much more well rounded skaters. I would say he is a great competitior - I was going to say like katarna Witt but she had a personality and diva status; he's kind of more like pablum. His trnasitions and artistry was not of the quality of these other men. How Johnny will fair is in question. So far the quads are just talk.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I'm NOT agree with you.Weir is a COP friendly skater,all his medals are under COP.COP make him can get medal, if under 6.0 he didn't have quads in the international competitions,then he may not able to get those marks.and he got many gold and other color medals on GPs too.
Weir was the junior World Champion and won his first two US titles under 6.0.

But by the time he began skating internationally as a senior, 6.0 was already on the way out, so of course most of his results are under the IJS -that's the system he competed under! However, I think Weir had more enjoyable programs earlier in his career and his strengths are more suited to the previous system (and maybe to early days IJS, which is different from the current version). He's one of a number of skaters who were unlucky in that way.

I like Weir's skating, I wish him luck, but I would be surprised if his plans to include quads in his programs pans out.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I am not sure Evan would be considered a real "COP" champion. Many would say it is an insult to compare him to Tak, Buttle, Lambiel or Chan who are much more well rounded skaters. I would say he is a great competitior - I was going to say like katarna Witt but she had a personality and diva status; he's kind of more like pablum. His trnasitions and artistry was not of the quality of these other men. How Johnny will fair is in question. So far the quads are just talk.

I think Evan, is much like Boitano in his competitive days - personality wise... Brian tried loosening up, especially once he started going head to head with Kurt a lot, and he just turned out looking more and more nerdy... Evan, to me, gives off that same vibe (in no way am I comparing their blade to ice capabilities, Brian wins that hands down, but persona/personality is a whole different ball game)

:rock::rock:
Toni, Keegan is my hubby's boy among the current US young boys, too!
He LOVES Team Keegan in the Kiss & Cry. :biggrin:

:rock: I've been in Keegan's corner since 2004/05
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I didn't know Boitano was considered nerdy. But nerdy beats pablum any day.

I was going to say like katarna Witt but she had a personality and diva status;

Not to mention beauty.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Maybe Johnny will actually try quads this time now that a "<" is worth more than a 2A. It's a consideration to keep in mind that if it wasn't squeaky before the rule changes (2 footed usually netted the equivalent of today's "<<" ) it wasn't worth doing.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
1. Oda has the 4CC title from 2006 as well.

2. Is he working hard to get his competitive mettle back up? At this point, we have his own words and some practice videos. Lysacek also gave us his own words and some practice videos last season. And Jonny's actions in the past suggest he likes to talk big, it's not specious to question those words.

3. I'm not eager to have Lysacek back, but Plushenko.... most assuredly. Not because I'm a fan of his skating or even his personality. But because the man is a legend and a giant. Because being the captain of the Russian team and winning the first team figure skating event at the Olympics is something I think would be marvelous.
 
Top