Who will rise and who will fall in 2012-13? | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Who will rise and who will fall in 2012-13?

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Ross is a solid, consistent skater, but I personally think a lot of skaters can potentially be better, and among the top of this list are Josh Farris and Jason Brown. 2018 is most likely their time, but 2014 is not out of the realms of possibility by any means, especially for Josh where he has the 3a and has tried the 4t in competition before and posted that big number at JW last year. And then Jason is just so unique and racks up points on everything so even with just a solid 3a and no quad, could still be a threat IMO. Josh is really beautiful and I feel his skating is pretty universally appealing (clean lines, pure jump technique, he's masculine and good looking in a clean cut way, and his skating has nice classical style). Brown is more edgy and Weir-ish but most people seem to like that!

I agree with you that Ross isn't necessarily the most naturally talented skater out there. What I like about him, though, is his strength as a competitor. Natural talent is great, but it only takes you so far. Just look at Alissa Czisny. She has tons of talent, yet can't put it together in competition. I just like the steadiness and consistency Ross has shown the last 2 years.
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
I agree with you that Ross isn't necessarily the most naturally talented skater out there. What I like about him, though, is his strength as a competitor. Natural talent is great, but it only takes you so far. Just look at Alissa Czisny. She has tons of talent, yet can't put it together in competition. I just like the steadiness and consistency Ross has shown the last 2 years.

That's like Katarina Witt. What she lacked in talent, she made up for in hard work and sheer will.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Sort of. Katarina Witt had other assets which include an amazing personality that transcended the ice and she was a clutch skater who used everything including intimidation (good or bad). She was the diva of the ice - the Joan Collilns or Susan Lucci on the ice. She had the stare of death which made Barbara Fusar Poli look like the good fairy:)
 

glam

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I often wonder what motivates Valentina Marchei to continue? She hasn't really progressed during the years and she won't win any medals next season either. Where does she get all the money to train abroad when she doesn't have any sponsors or any probability to win prize money. Are her parents super rich or something?
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I agree with you that Ross isn't necessarily the most naturally talented skater out there. What I like about him, though, is his strength as a competitor. Natural talent is great, but it only takes you so far. Just look at Alissa Czisny. She has tons of talent, yet can't put it together in competition. I just like the steadiness and consistency Ross has shown the last 2 years.

This is a trait that means a lot to me, too. Someone who doesn't give up and who is able to stay steady no matter what the stress is admirable. It's one of the reasons I have loved Michelle so much through the years. Of course I delighted in the quality of her skating, but her appeal was enhanced by the way she was able to push ahead and not wilt if she made one bad jump. It's exhausting loving a head case--and I know, because I'm an Alissa fan! By contrast, loving a skater who's consistent can be invigorating. That skater may not always win, but he or she will always do the best possible job. It's a trait I also admire in Plushenko.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I often wonder what motivates Valentina Marchei to continue? She hasn't really progressed during the years and she won't win any medals next season either. Where does she get all the money to train abroad when she doesn't have any sponsors or any probability to win prize money. Are her parents super rich or something?
I imagine she wants to skate at the Olympics. In 2006 Silvia Fontana edged her out for a spot and in 2010 Italy could only send one skater. Also she may feel that she hasn't fulfilled her potential yet; I remember Kostner saying in an interview, a few years back when things weren't going so well, that she had things that she still wanted to achieve. I'm sure Marchei's goals are more modest, but surely she has a few...

She probably has some federation support and sponsorships. Is she affiliated with the police like other Italian skaters?
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I agree with you that Ross isn't necessarily the most naturally talented skater out there. What I like about him, though, is his strength as a competitor. Natural talent is great, but it only takes you so far. Just look at Alissa Czisny. She has tons of talent, yet can't put it together in competition. I just like the steadiness and consistency Ross has shown the last 2 years.

So do I. I feel a lot of people underestimate Ross because he didn't make a big splash like other skaters did.

Another thing I like about him is that him and his team have a good sense of what needs to be done.

From the Boston Globe after his surprise bronze in 2011. www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/olympics/articles/2011/02/13/skater_makes_a_leap/?page=2
“I was at a crossroads,’’ he said. “I can be OK and mess around in the middle or I can take it seriously. Unfortunately, sometimes I need to get kicked in the *** before I realize that a change is necessary.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I wonder if P and B can feel the pressure of the up and coming Canadians, Americans, Italians and Russians. Do they read these posts? Can they see the writing on the all or sense that the tide is turning or are a lot of us just plain wrong. I can't explain it but not that P and B are bad ice dancers I just since they are perfect for being knocked off the podium and if they aren't careful they could slip behind another American or two and a Canadian team. C and L could pass them and you never know about B and S or I and K from Russia they are both capable of moving past the French. this is a team that I might have been okay with retiring on top. I hope they don't end up like that German dance team or Israeli team - again winning that bronze could be the kiss of death..

Even if they do go down, having the bronze is a lot better than having nothing.. plus I think people are jumping to conclusions that they're on their way down. I think it's due to Weaver and Poje's rise up the standings but Pechalat and Bourzat still rose this past year as they were never on the podium before.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I often wonder what motivates Valentina Marchei to continue? She hasn't really progressed during the years and she won't win any medals next season either. Where does she get all the money to train abroad when she doesn't have any sponsors or any probability to win prize money. Are her parents super rich or something?

I thought she was skating better this past season than other seasons.
 

dodi

Spectator
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Just because it is listed on a skaters website that they receive funding does not actually mean that they have received money. The NEASF funding is based on donations directed to a specific skater. The information is placed on the websites to encourage fans and supporters to make donations. :)
From Joshua Farris' site:



I've read this same paragraph for at least two years and I'm guessing his training costs may have gone up. And he is still a Junior. But he probably saves on his costs because he trains in his hometown.

As I posted earlier, I envision much success for Joshua, both nationally and internationally.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I agree with you that Ross isn't necessarily the most naturally talented skater out there. What I like about him, though, is his strength as a competitor. Natural talent is great, but it only takes you so far. Just look at Alissa Czisny. She has tons of talent, yet can't put it together in competition. I just like the steadiness and consistency Ross has shown the last 2 years.

Alissa is very talented but let's be honest here her jumps have always been questionable at best and jumps are a major part of figure skating. Ross is very solid in ALL aspects of his skating and that coupled with his work ethic and consistency are what have enabled him to become one of the top skaters in the Nation. As for Alissa, it was always a matter of, "if she only had the jumps". However, it seems like a number of the other men, Farris and Brown in particular, also have very good work ethic and have proven they can deliver in competition when it counts (at least at the junior level) and are very solid across all areas of skating, so it will be really interesting to watch these next few years. I personally love Farris's skating and think he has the tools to become a World and Olympic medalist in the next 6 years, but a lot of others seem to find him bland and boring. Jason Brown is great too but will the 3a continue to be an issue? Dornbush is also a favorite of mine but I don't know if last season was a fluke or what we can expect from him from now on. Then Keegan is awesome but his consistency or lack thereof is worrisome too...It will certainly be interesting to watch!
 
Last edited:

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
I wish I could definitively say Jason Brown is on the rise. But until I know for sure he's got the 3 axel and/or quad down, I'm afraid it's a big ol' question mark for one of my favorite skaters. Without those vital jumps, at best he can hope to replicate some of his success in juniors, and forget about podiuming in seniors.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
I wish I could definitively say Jason Brown is on the rise. But until I know for sure he's got the 3 axel and/or quad down, I'm afraid it's a big ol' question mark for one of my favorite skaters. Without those vital jumps, at best he can hope to replicate some of his success in juniors, and forget about podiuming in seniors.

Jason will compete in senior GP in next season? I like him. :yes:
 
Last edited:

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I believe Jason will do juniors internationally, seniors nationally.

However, he tried the 3A in both programs at a small summer competition earlier this year.
 

iluvtodd

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
United-States
I agree with you that Ross isn't necessarily the most naturally talented skater out there. What I like about him, though, is his strength as a competitor. Natural talent is great, but it only takes you so far. Just look at Alissa Czisny. She has tons of talent, yet can't put it together in competition. I just like the steadiness and consistency Ross has shown the last 2 years.

This is a trait that means a lot to me, too. Someone who doesn't give up and who is able to stay steady no matter what the stress is admirable. It's one of the reasons I have loved Michelle so much through the years. Of course I delighted in the quality of her skating, but her appeal was enhanced by the way she was able to push ahead and not wilt if she made one bad jump. It's exhausting loving a head case--and I know, because I'm an Alissa fan! By contrast, loving a skater who's consistent can be invigorating. That skater may not always win, but he or she will always do the best possible job. It's a trait I also admire in Plushenko.

Another big supporter of Ross Miner here! He's @ Liberty this week, and will skate his short program today & free tomorrow!
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Jason is only 17 years old. He's risen steadily in the ranks. He's serious about his skating and no doubt knows emphatically that he needs a 3A and a quad. I'm sure he's working diligently on getting both those jumps. Does anyone think he needs to either leave his coach for someone with a higher profile and perhaps more experience with a skater on his level or maybe get a jump coach on his team?
 

Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
I believe Jason will do juniors internationally, seniors nationally.

However, he tried the 3A in both programs at a small summer competition earlier this year.

I was looking at Jason's 2A last season and wondering if he will be able to do a 3A with his current technique. His jumps are not big, either in height or distance. There is a lot to like about his skating but until he starts landing the big jumps, I'm not going to hop on his bandwagon just yet.
 

lakeside

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Joshua was named to the Team B envelope; therefore, he does get funding from U.S. Figure Skating. The Team B funding is the highest level of funding that he was eligible for given his results from last season.
The problem is that if Joshua wins the JGPF and the junior worlds, would he be eligible for the Team A envelope? Plus, even if he gets the Team A funding, that still doesn’t mean the USFS will cover all his expenses + invite him to stay in nice villa for free. So that would still be different than Han Yan’s situation. And if you look at Patrick who is already the world champion, he is wearing the most plain clothes and people complain he’s not a fashionista. Poor guy, he has to be frugal in order to pay for his expenses.

I don’t get mad when poor students get scholarship, and I don’t have problems with people getting sponsorships or donations to help funding. But I think it’s unfair to all other skaters if a rich student gets financial aid. What Han Yan gets is financial aid, not scholarship. The USFS and the JSF operate under the scholarship system, which is different than how the Chinese fed spends money on Han Yan. A rich student should pay for his/her own fees, no need for financial aid. Since Han Yan is competing at international competitions against non Chinese skaters, I think it is unfair to his competitors.

As tax payers, Chinese Fans are just unhappy about Federation's unwise decision for holding Yan in Junior events
I did not want to get into Chinese tax politics, but since you started it… you know Han Yan’s fans are only 0.001% of Chinese taxpayers. My relative from my maternal side is currently living in China with his family, and the company he works at has sponsored some sports events in China so they know how sports work there. He told me that local Chinese really hate “second-generation rich,” Chinese teenagers born into rich families who like to show off luxury goods bought by their wealthy parents, and some people even want them stoned.

You’re Chinese, so you know that many Chinese only make like $800 each month and they still need to pay taxes. If they know their money is wasted on a second-generation rich, I bet 90% or more of Chinese taxpayers would not want to pay taxes anymore. They would want to save their money so they can buy a mini apartment or send their children to better schools. Most Chinese never stay in a villa throughout their whole life.

If Yan likes to skate, then he should use money from his rich family, or he can get sponsorships or fan donations. No problem with all that, as the sponsors and donators would pay for his costs voluntarily. But now he’s using money of other taxpayers, who need financial aid more than himself. If the majority of taxpayers know this, then they will be more unhappy than those 0.001% taxpayers who are Yan’s fans. This whole thing is not only unfair to fellow Chinese taxpayers but also a form of corruption.

I hope skating will survive a CoP champion like Chan. Really, he is so lacking in charisma and the sport seems to be in a nose dive since he won the championship.

The vasty majority of the N. American public disagrees....skating is more than blades on ice, and speed.
I also think skating is more than speed and good skaters need charisma and artistry. I’m also worried about figure skating’s future because if you look at the new junior world champion Han Yan, my goodness, the guy is rushed, emotionless, sloppy with his windmill arms, hunched back, and stiff torso. I used to think Patrick needed to work on artistry and audience connection, but after I saw Han Yan, Patrick looked like an artist and I would rather watch him with 3 falls than a clean Yan. If this Yan is the “future star” as bragged by his Chinese fans, then I’m worried about skating’s future.

And then Jason is just so unique and racks up points on everything so even with just a solid 3a and no quad, could still be a threat IMO. Josh is really beautiful and I feel his skating is pretty universally appealing (clean lines, pure jump technique, he's masculine and good looking in a clean cut way, and his skating has nice classical style). Brown is more edgy and Weir-ish but most people seem to like that!
This! I think Joshua and Jason are 2 talented skaters with different styles. Though still a little bit juniorish, they already have very good artistry for their age. Even if they lose to Han Yan next season, I like that they’re still working hard to be real figure skaters, the all-round skaters with in-betweens and emotions.

Ultimately, regardless of country, eligible skaters are competing in a rather paternalistic system, in which many decisions and opportunities are out of their control and disproportionate to their own achievements. I don't see why skaters being slighted and ignored under one federation makes it OK for another federation to do it to some other skater.
If this was what you said regarding Joshua and Yan, then I would not have a problem. If you look at ISU rules, they both are qualified to move up if their federations agree. But what you said was all like Yan should move up because he’s talented etc. and Joshua does not have to move up because he’s not as good. I got mad when I read your first post, I felt that you were biased.

I do think as it is currently done, PCScoring seriously undervalues artistry, performance ability and musicality. Perhaps, behind the scenes, judges will get some severe memos reeducating them in this regard.
I agree on this and artistry should be more important in future.

In which case, Chan may see his PCS drop back to Earth and Takahashi would get a serious boost (and deservedly so).
I feel you are biased again. You often blamed Patrick for his lack of artistry and audience connection, but you said Han Yan is so talented etc. In reality Yan is a lot worse than Patrick in the artistry category. If Chan may see his PCS drop back to Earth, then Yan may see his PCS drop back underground.

OMG! Did he land them? How'd they look? Are there vids?
Jason landed the 3a in the SP but it was probably URed. In the LP he tried the 3a again but fell. Because Southport Summer Classic is a very small competition, there are no videos available online now.

I don't understand why Lakeside try to connected the fact that Han Yan got financial support from Chinese fed, get free training and has luxury item with whether he should complete in Sr gran Prix or not.

I don't understand the logic here.

Even if he is richest men in the world, if he deserve to compete in Senior then he deserve it.
I understand you’re Chinese and English is your second language, so you may get confused by long posts. I don’t have a problem with that. However, I still wish you could read my posts more carefully so you would understand what I wrote and not twist my words. There are many ESL people on this forum, which made this such a nice multicultural forum. I only wish you could be more patient and read more carefully.

First of all, no need to underline the word “deserve.” I did not choose to use that word. Another Chinese fan iceflame used it. I just quoted her. And we were discussing why Han Yan deserved to train at Ice Castle for free + to stay in some nice villa for free and does that mean other skaters did not deserve to have all their expenses covered? We were not discussing whether Yan deserves to compete seniors, so no need to mix the two topics together.

Second of all, I’m not the one who started the discussion about how rich Yan’s family is. If you read my first post #55, I said the Chinese fed is spending big money on Yan without getting into Yan’s own family economy. Then Serious Business asked me “do you get mad when a poor student gets a scholarship?” I had to clarify and tell her that Yan is not a poor student. Why are you trying to mix my clarification with whether Yan deserves to compete seniors?

Third of all, what I said about whether Yan competes seniors is this: the officers of the Chinese fed are his big bosses, and Yan obeys their decisions. What’s wrong with that? If you look at Joshua, the USFS is not paying for all his expenses, but he still has to obey his fed’s decision.
 

Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
When a federation pays for everything, they call the shots and the skaters do what they're told or they're out of the program. If you want to skate and the federation says no, you don't skate. Katia Grinkov was nearly tossed from the Russian program because they didn't think she was talented enough. She had to beg for her opportunity and she lived in fear they would change their minds. You don't pick you own coach, the federation assigns you to a coach and many of these decisions are based on politics. Japanese skaters can only go to coaches approved by their federation.

In North America, you pay your own way, but if you are successful, you will get a decent amount of funding from your federation. Expenses for international assignments are covered too. If Skate Canada was paying Patrick's expenses, he would not be training in Colorado. He would be in Barrie at the Mariposa Club. I would rather have a situation where the skaters and/or their parents are free to make their own choices based on what works best for the skater.
 
Top