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Men's and Ladies' Gymnastics

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I am watching the coverage now. I am bemused and to be frank, a bit peeved that Tim Daggett pronounced Kohei Uchimura's name as "Ko-hee". Daggett used to be a gymnast, comments on gymnastics events constantly, how can he not know how to pronounce the name of the most relevant gymnast of the last few years? And shouldn't he know how to pronounce a bit of Japanese names, given that so many gymnastics moves are named after Japanese gymnasts? Al Trautwig is the one who got his name right.

And oh god, ANOTHER fluff piece? With basically the same theme as the first one? When you're trimming the coverage of an entire event of 168 routines to an hour + 45 minutes (provided the rest of the night is all gymnastics) of coverage, do we really have time for fluff?

Regarding fluff, this is what USA Today's live blog http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olym...-08-01/Hiestand-Wednesday-Olympics/56668478/1 said tonight:

Pretty touching featurette on U.S. gymnast John Orozco. Says NBC's Al Trautwig, as NBC cuts back to Orozco: "He's a kind and caring soul."

I know I'm being manipulated, but I'm an instant fan of the guy. And that's the point of primetime Olympic TV.
[Emphasis added.]

NBC's Trautwig as Orozco gets a not-good score: "His Olympics is over."

And that's why they ran the feature before that declaration.

Fluff is in the eye of the beholder. For the casual viewer, fluff that has good storytelling can make the difference between remaining disinterested and becoming a new fan of a sport or athlete.

And regarding the pronunciation issue:
Was it at Four Continents this year that the announcer mispronounced Scott Moir's last name? Two wrongs don't make a right, but such mistakes happen.
And to my ear, Trautwig and Costas seem to be saying, "ko-hay", vs. Daggett saying, "ko-hee." But isn't the proper pronunciation in between, more like "ko-heh-ee"? I'm half-Japanese, although English is my first language. I defer to native speakers of Japanese - and am not aware whether or not you fit that description, Serious Business.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Dick Ebersol, is that you? :laugh:

But seriously, the only way to make people fans of a sport and its athletes is to actually show them competing. It is utterly indefensible to show a 5 minute fluff piece covering Orozco's background, when they won't bother showing the vast majority of the event he's competing in. This isn't covering a sports event. This is a segment on a news magazine show. It's the middle part of Dateline: Friday. Even worse, they'd just shown a fluff piece 10 minutes ago covering the exact same theme (only with Danell Leyva's background story thrown in). What's the point of a network getting people into the sport if they won't show it?

And what about other athletes? Don't they deserve attention and fans, too? Marcel Nguyen won himself millions of new fans, no doubt, through his Olympic performances alone. Except in the US, where they don't have time to show it. Or fans who remember veteran gymnasts like Fabian Hambüchen who'd have tuned in to see how he's doing, if NBC would only bother showing him.

And even if this has to be entirely about John Orozco, his success and failure means nothing without the context of the competition. If viewers don't see who's beating him, and whom he wants to beat, their attention is going to be short-lived.

Airing time-draining fluff pieces in place of actual coverage is a case of putting the cart before the horse. Or rather, shooting the horse and thinking the cart will just get there by itself.

P.S. I'm not a Japanese speaker, but I've heard enough Japanese announcers pronouncing that name to know it's not pronounced Kohee or anything like it.
 
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MoonlightSkater

On the Ice
Joined
May 17, 2011
fabulous, how old is she? I hope we get to see her. She moves beautifully and as Olympia said she was steady as a rock, and fast, too on Beam. She must have a great FX. I am rooting for gabby tho Ally is from my state, and she has been a great team captain. Jordyn seems to have gotten her mojo back. I hope she is relaxed for her FX routine. Is she qualified for any other event? She is a great girl. I hope Nastia is there pushing the girls on.

HERE IS A QUESTION... McKayla's vault was huge and perfect. she looked like an air missile. What did they deduct on? That was as perfect/difficult a vault as anyone ever saw acc or commentary, and she is a phenom. I forget the name of the vault, Amanar? but only she and another US girl I think do it. Please correct me if I missed the correct facts. I was kind of going from bed to LR, having lost the feed near the end.

Catalina Ponor is 24, soon to be 25.

As for McKayla's vault, if I were judging, I would've given it a 10.0. The best vault ever done by a female gymnast deserves a 10.0. However, if I was being rediculously picky to the point of being almost absurd, I might take .1 off for a very slight hip angle at the very beginning of the post flight, possibly .1 for the slightest of slight knee bends at the very end of the twisting, and, if I really was afraid of high scores, I might take off .1 for a very small leg separation in the preflight. That leg separation would be difficult for the judges to see from their position to the side of the vault. I couldn't find any other deduction that I'd even be willing to take if pressed, not even after watching the slow-mo replay, not even foot form. That would allow for a score of 9.7 to 9.8, which is where the judges had her. I can't help but wonder if they are almost afraid to give a 9.9 or 10.0, since it hasn't happened in the last 17 or so years. The degree of perfection they are holding her to is just silly. The 10.0 is an iconic number in gymnastics. While I don't think tens should be handed out willy-nilly like they were in the late 80's, I think that there should still be a slim possibility of getting that hallowed score.

Edit to add: All of the girls on the U.S. team are capable of Amanars, though Kyla's is shaky to the point where she's been practicing double twisting Yurchenkos for the Olympics. (An Amanar is another name for a 2 1/2 twisting Yurchenko. Natalia Yurchenko of the USSR was the first gymnast to do the round-off entry to a back salto vault. Simona Amanar of Romania was the first to do it with 2 1/2 twists. So far as I know, the Yurchenko vault is the first of the major types of vault originated by a female gymnast and later adopted by the men.) Viktoria Komova of Russia has a pretty good Amanar. Maria Paseka, another Russian who made vault finals, also has an Amanar, albeit a somewhat sloppy one. Aliya Mustafina has had an Amanar in the past and has practiced it in London, but she hasn't thrown it in major competition since she tore her ACL on it at the 2011 European championships. Larissa Iordache of Romania is capable of an Amanar, but she has plantar fasciitis (ouch!) and hasn't competed it in London. Huang Qiushang of China has vaulted one, albeit not a great one. In 2008, Jiang Yuanyuan and Cheng Fei, both of China, also vaulted Amanars. Shawn Johnson had an Amanar, as have one or two North Korean gymnasts. Tatiana Nabieva of Russia had a famously sloppy one. A half dozen or so U.S. gymnasts not competing in London also have Amanars, some of them too young for this Olympics. The U.S. is definately leading in the vault category right now. It's too bad that not many American gymnasts learn two different types of vaults so they can qualify for event finals. Alicia Sacramone and McKayla Maroney are exceptions to this rule. Hopefully, with four years to Rio, more of the capable young gymnasts start learning second vaults as a way to differentiate themselves from the crowd.
 
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MoonlightSkater

On the Ice
Joined
May 17, 2011
Dick Ebersol, is that you? :laugh:

But seriously, the only way to make people fans of a sport and its athletes is to actually show them competing. It is utterly indefensible to show a 5 minute fluff piece covering Orozco's background, when they won't bother showing the vast majority of the event he's competing in. This isn't covering a sports event. This is a segment on a news magazine show. It's the middle part of Dateline: Friday. Even worse, they'd just shown a fluff piece 10 minutes ago covering the exact same theme (only with Danell Leyva's background story thrown in). What's the point of a network getting people into the sport if they won't show it?

And what about other athletes? Don't they deserve attention and fans, too? Marcel Nguyen won himself millions of new fans, no doubt, through his Olympic performances alone. Except in the US, where they don't have time to show it. Or fans who remember veteran gymnasts like Fabian Hambüchen who'd have tuned in to see how he's doing, if NBC would only bother showing him.

And even if this has to be entirely about John Orozco, his success and failure means nothing without the context of the competition. If viewers don't see who's beating him, and whom he wants to beat, their attention is going to be short-lived.

Airing time-draining fluff pieces in place of actual coverage is a case of putting the cart before the horse. Or rather, shooting the horse and thinking the cart will just get there by itself.

P.S. I'm not a Japanese speaker, but I've heard enough Japanese announcers pronouncing that name to know it's not pronounced Kohee or anything like it.

If they spent as much time showing routines as they currently do showing gymnasts sitting on the sidelines and adjusting their grips, we could see at least another 20 routines. It'd be nice and fast paced, which I bet would appeal to viewers.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
If they spent as much time showing routines as they currently do showing gymnasts sitting on the sidelines and adjusting their grips, we could see at least another 20 routines. It'd be nice and fast paced, which I bet would appeal to viewers.

Oh I know! I'd actually watch that even if I've seen the live broadcast already. It'd make for a lovely recap. And they could totally edit it in a way to still preserve the illusion that it's live for the people who are still susceptible to that charade. It'd just take some imagination which the NBC executives utterly lack.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I don't mind all the swimming... but then I don't care passionately for any summer sport so it's all the same to me...


what I did have issue with tonight from NBC was the commentators recapping John's disaster during the team event, and then one of them saying "but the one good thing about john is his consistency." Um, really? You just spent 2+ minutes telling us he crapped out and now you're trying to sell us on his consistency? Or are you telling us he's consistently crappy. Granted I just saw his pommel and I feel bad for saying that - because I'm one of those that do like the fluff pieces and find him to be completely likable - but it was just a DUH comment to make at that point...
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Afanaseva had the best floor in my opinion,despite the mistaek at the end, I ve missed watching gymnasts having a character and real choreography, some attitude and smile, without using the music as just background noise. Thats why she is the WC. 90% competed like robbots. Next favorite is Dougla's for the same reason, she looked like enjoying it and didnt make me anxious. Mustafina dissapointed me, she looked so worried in FX, she didnt sell it at all.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I'll go back and look at Afanaseva's floor routine. I have been aware that floor routines aren't really interpretive anymore. I guess they have so many tricks to pack in, and they have to get so much speed in for their flips and jumps and whatnot that most of their routine just has to have them at a run. You can't do that in time to the music! I just hope that this isn't also the future of figure skating. Putting in all the flourishes and points-gathering elements might swamp the music, and at that moment I will be making for the door.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Serious Business, I sincerely (truly sincerely - am not trying to be sarcastic) hope that NBC's coverage of the female gymnasts tonight will be more satisfactory to passionate fans like you. Enjoy!
Because two Americans are very strong contenders for the all-around gold (and because of all the attention over the absence of Wieber from the all-around final), my hunch is that gymnastics will get more airtime tonight than last night.

I have other thoughts on our discussion, but in case I don't get around to posting them later, want to quickly pass along this link to the official White House blog, which has a photo of Obama on Air Force One as he was on the phone with Maroney, Ross, Raisman, Douglas, and Wieber yesterday.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012...e=080212&utm_medium=topper&utm_campaign=daily
 
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Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
We start on vault with the top group!

Gabby Douglas fires off a thunderous vault, she takes a small hop to the side, but manages to sway herself just so to keep her feet from touching the red. She does this with a big grin.

Aly Raisman explodes into her vault, but takes a step forward on the landing. She winds up with a lower score than Gabby. The two, as expected, are 1 and 2 in the overall standings after vault.

Komova does her Amanar, but has a side step or two entirely off the mat on the landing.

Oh Rei Tanaka, if you're going to shake your hips during your routine, commit to the movement. Don't just shift your hip slightly to the side awkwardly, like you're trying to stealthily poot in an elevator. Her floor music is a combination of Pink Panther and James Bond. As a longtime Bond fan, I am offended.

Marta Pihan-Kulesza wins best hair at this event.

Aly Raisman has a sloppy and simple uneven bar routine, but no major mistakes.

Komova does an absolutely perfect uneven bar routine. She's about to grab the lead. And she does, with over a 1 point over Aly Raisman.

Gabby Douglas does a near-perfect bar routine. Flies around like it's nothing. And nails the landing (maybe with a tiny fidget). Team USA's only decent bar worker works it. She gets a massive score of 15.733 that puts her, for now, over Komova! At this point in the team competition, Douglas was behind Komova!

Love the neck shuffle in Hannah Whelan's floor. Really, gymnasts, it's OK to throw in dance moves other gymnasts aren't doing.

More to come.
 
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Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Komova had small adjustments on three of her moves that I can count on beam. She took a step on the landing, but managed to keep her feet within the mat. A grin emerges. She feels redeemed on the apparatus. She gets over .4 higher than her beam score in the team finals. The gold medal fave is on her way!

Hannah Whelan lands flat on her belly on vault. She is unhurt, but that's definitely not the way to go.

Deng Linlin is, as Peggy Fleming used to love to say, solid as a rock on her best apparatus, beam. She has an adjustment on a leap, a fidget on something else, one small step back on the landing, but otherwise, a total redemption from her beam meltdown at the team final.

Oh dear lord, Mustafina falls off beam in one of her first moves. The former world champ looks disheartened.

Gabby on beam. I'm so nervous my eyeballs feel sweaty. But yes! No major errors. A leg went up here unintentionally, a fidget there, and a small step on the landing. But she did not have one of her potential silly falls on the beam! She's likely guaranteed herself a spot on the podium.

Larisa Andre Iordache finishes her first tumbling pass on floor with seemingly no problem. But just when you think she's got the landing stopped, she takes another two steps back to go out of bounds. She moves on without even a shrug. This girl is fearless. Reminds me of her routine on beam a few minutes back where she had an adjustment on a move and as soon as she finds her balance, impatiently hurries into the next move like she doesn't have the time to consider mistakes.

Oh my stars and garters, Gabby Douglas punches a massive 15.500 on beam and goes into first place. Let's see how she handles a frontrunner with just floor left.

Aly Raisman has a massive form break on beam, where she had to bend over with both arms grabbing the beam to keep herself on (she does manage to raise her free leg, though. That is enough to make the rest of her performance a bit nervy. A few adjustments, then on the pirouette, she was so wild on it the audience gasped loudly. She kept it on, though. A step forward on the landing. She gets pummelled in the scores and drops to 5th. Luckily, this is right before her best event: floor. She should be able to gain ground over her podium obstacles.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Vanessa Ferrari does a floor routine to music so dramatic it'd be fit for Russian ice dancers. However, the emotions of the music seem to have zero relations to what she's projecting/performing. I was slightly excited at first to hear music that isn't just perky techno straight from a cheerleader's mix on floor, but Ferrari made no use of it.

Speaking of perky music on floor, Deng Linlin does a routine to exactly that, some fierce flamenco music with a, you guessed it, techno beat. She is forced to grin widely to suit the music. It looks about as natural as her official age. ;) She earns a slightly subpar score and will not contend for the podium despite not making any major mistakes.

Mustafina also does not make any major errors on floor. She gets a respectable score and did about as well she could to earn a place on the podium.

Gabby Douglas on floor! Man is she rambuctious, there may even be a bit of adrenaline at work, as she almost goes out of bounds on a move, and overrotates her pirourette a touch. But really, that's just nitpicking. She was flaw-free basically. The scores are in! It's over 15! Komova would need to earn an impossible 15.359 on floor to take gold now. I think Gabby Douglas just earned herself the Olympic all-around championship!

Aly Raisman explodes all over the floor, I am almost too excited for Gabby to pay much attention. I do notice enough to see Raisman did great. And now it remains to see if teh scores will land her on the podium. She's now in third for now. I don't think it'll be enough for the podium but we'll have to see about Komova.

Komova does a floor routine to a medley of iconic British music. I hear Queen! I hear Amy Winehouse! I am officially a fan! Komova finally bursts into an unabashed grin at the end of her routine. Tears of joy flow and she looks both relieved and very, very happy.

Everybody cranes their necks for the scores. The tension! It is too much! GABBY DOUGLAS WINS! OH MY STARS AND GARTERS! Komova second and Mustafina third. Komova's earlier joy immediately melts away as she goes back into what appears to be sad, sad bawling. Oh, come on, Komova, you did as great as you could've and earned two silvers so far! Mustafina, after her injuries and hiatus, looks glad just to be on the podium. Raisman looks disappointed at her 4th place finish and wipes away a bit of a tear. She is actually tied with Mustafina in the total score, but lost out on a tiebreaker somewhere. So close!

As for the golden girl? I've seen her look happy, perky, ecstatic in terms of joyful emotions. But now, she's crying tears of joy. She looks genuinely touched.
 
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Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Douglas was overscored - Komova deserved that gold...

Gabby Douglas is deservedly first on vault and beam. She was behind but close enough to Komova on bars. And I actually think Komova was overscored a bit on floor where she winds up with a massive score of 15.1 (but Komova could've had a bigger score on bars, so it all evens out). The very aerodynamic Douglas earned two first place among the apparatuses, and 3rd and 4th on others. Komova got no lower than 3rd on any apparatus, but no firsts either (not even on bars, surprisingly, where Mustafina trumped her teammate). The final margin is close but not that close. The judges got it right.

Anyway, massive congrats to Douglas, who went from never winning any major international individual titles to winning the biggest one. She is truly an all-around gymnast. There is no apparatus she's not astonishing on. Her only weakness was that sometimes pointless mistakes would creep in due to a possible lack of focus. But that did not happen at all at these games. And when Gabby is on, she's unbeatable, as she proved.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Is Gabby the first African-American/Black gymnast to win the all around?
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Is Gabby the first African-American/Black gymnast to win the all around?

Absolutely! Historical!

She is going to overload the talkshow circuits with her cuteness when she gets back.

Also, the Fab/Fierce Five managed to outdo the Magnificent Seven, IMO. The MS never managed to get even close to the podium in the all-around. The FF's MVP, on the other hand, hopped, skipped and flew to gold with nary a doubt.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
That was way better than the men, what a competition , I love the podium so much!!!

What is the tie breaker now? I wish they had two bronzes like in other sports, tie in AA is insane!
 

DianaSelene

Medalist
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Gabby Douglas is deservedly first on vault and beam. She was behind but close enough to Komova on bars. And I actually think Komova was overscored a bit on floor where she winds up with a massive score of 15.1 (but Komova could've had a bigger score on bars, so it all evens out). The very aerodynamic Douglas earned two first place among the apparatuses, and 3rd and 4th on others. Komova got no lower than 3rd on any apparatus, but no firsts either (not even on bars, surprisingly, where Mustafina trumped her teammate). The final margin is close but not that close. The judges got it right.

Anyway, massive congrats to Douglas, who went from never winning any major international individual titles to winning the biggest one. She is truly an all-around gymnast. There is no apparatus she's not astonishing on. Her only weakness was that sometimes pointless mistakes would creep in due to a possible lack of focus. But that did not happen at all at these games. And when Gabby is on, she's unbeatable, as she proved.

Everyone has his/her own opinion. However, Douglas was overscored on bars where she got about 0.4 greater than in team finals with almost the same performance. Her floor was not better than Komova's who had an awesome floor routine and had less errors. Their beam was about the same. I would only give her the edge on vault. But le'ts not turn this into an argument. I don't want to go into a figure skating argument such as D/W vs V/M or Plush vs Lysacek. To each their own.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
:laugh: No worries, DianaSelene, and no hard feelings! It's not worth fighting over and I feel too happy about Douglas' win to get upset at anything about it.

Also, I hope Wieber feels better now with Douglas' win, both because her teammate and friend won, and because Wieber has to know she couldn't have beaten Douglas today. So that all-around gold was likely not hers this time anyway. Although no doubt as a fierce competitor, Wieber would've just simply wanted the chance to go for it.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
:laugh: No worries, DianaSelene, and no hard feelings! It's not worth fighting over and I feel too happy about Douglas' win to get upset at anything about it.

Also, I hope Wieber feels better now with Douglas' win, both because her teammate and friend won, and because Wieber has to know she couldn't have beaten Douglas today. So that all-around gold was likely not hers this time anyway. Although no doubt as a fierce competitor, Wieber would've just simply wanted the chance to go for it.

I agree and Gabby was the best in London.

Jordan still knows she could have had a shot at the podium though.....so not so sure how "happy" she is.
 
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