Advice on Axel jumps | Golden Skate

Advice on Axel jumps

Noga L.

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Hi everyone! I was hoping to get some advice on jumping Axels. For some reason I have always had serious trouble with the Axel. All other single jumps- no problem. Double jumps, still not perfect, but I feel comfortable trying them. But the Axel jump always feels so uncomfortable, I'm not sure if for technical reasons or if there's just some kind of psychological blockage. I know this is a pretty common problem, so do any of you have tips for me? :rolleye:
Thank you.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Need more information. What specifically feels uncomfortable about it? The information you provide as to what your issues is so vague that no tips can be provided. Where and with what specifically are you struggling?
 

silver.blades

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Country
Canada
In terms of being afraid to try the axel, due lots of waltz jumps to get used to the forward takeoff as that is usually what makes people uncomfortable about this jump. Otherwise I need more information about the jump.
 

Noga L.

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
The forward take off doesn't feel uncomfortable when I do the Waltz jump. I believe it is mostly fear of under rotating and therefor lose control in landing. I can land them off ice, but also, only if I have enough space and there's nothing around for me to slip on (I have to be sure of that in my mind in order to feel confidant enough). I always feel like I might not complete the rotation and land funny or fall. That makes me not give it all I've got on take-off (because I'm too scared), which clearly and ironically results in exactly what I fear of!
I guess what I really need is advice on how to improve my rotation ability in the air - if I could complete 2-2.5 revolutions in the air easily (by practicing off ice) then one and a half would probably not be so scary (on ice)...
Thanks again.
 

Wildstorm

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
I have two youtube clips that might help.

The first is Daisuke Takahashi doing a perfect 3A in slow motion which helped me better understand the takeoff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV48rUTB-5g

And the second is Michael Weiss teaching an axel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFGLGFv8Mu0&feature=relmfu

Also videotape yours and slow it down with windows movie maker. Then you'll be able to see where you're going wrong, that did wonders for my double toe.

Remember to keep your shoulders and hips open.

Good luck!!! :)
 

Noga L.

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
No harness...

Oh my god, Michael Weiss makes the single Axel look like just a little hop, kind of what a Waltz jump is for me. He hardly even crosses his legs to rotate it.
I wish I could jump that high! Am I supposed to build some more muscle or is it more about technique?
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Totally technique. Sounds like the technique you've been taught isn't working for you. Can you discuss with your coach?
 

silver.blades

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Country
Canada
For off ice training to increase rotation practice jumps straight up and down, jumps with a hip twist at the top of the jump and then jumps that rotate, initiating rotation from the hip at the top of the jump starting at 1/2 a rotation and moving up in half increments as they improve. It does sound like it's the fwd take off that is the mental block as you say you no fear of the double jumps, so I still say working on the waltz jump is a good idea. Work on getting it high and across with a deep take off knee to better simulate the axel take off. Off ice and on are totally different things, and it's not that uncommon to have the jump off ice before you have it on. Defiantly talk to your coach about how you feel when you enter the jump, because someone who can see you make the attempt is much better positioned to make suggestions than someone online.
 

vlaurend

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Try to get your off-ice axel higher and rotating faster, because those big, heavy skates make it hard to pull in as much or jump as high on the ice. I landed my first axel a year after first landing it on the floor, and I'll never forget the day I landed it. I first did axels off-ice and noticed I was rotating more and faster than I ever had, so that gave me extra confidence. Then, once I was on the ice, someone advised me to really slow it down so that I had almost no speed on the LFO takeoff edge. So I slowed it down and I told myself I was doing an axel on the floor. . . then I landed it fully backward! And then another one, and another one. :)
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Waltz-backspin. Backspin-hop-backspin. Backspin-hop-check-out.

Other than that, all I can say is that for me, as an adult, it took me almost a decade to get a proper axel with my legs crossed in the air (not side by side). To this day, I still have trouble with it. Yes, it's scary. You have to just wear pads and make yourself do it.

Doing it from a standstill (for me) is a lot more scary than doing it moving. Doing it off ice has never helped me and increases my risk of a twisted ankle or slamming into furniture.

I do not mean to be negative, it's just a very very hard jump to do and it's normal to be scared and struggle with it. I think most people do.
 

Phantom

Spectator
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
I do not mean to be negative, it's just a very very hard jump to do and it's normal to be scared and struggle with it. I think most people do.

I have to say, that I personally disagree with this. Axel is quite a simple jump, you just need to understand the basic movements required to do it. You need to make sure that you are jumping on the circle you have created going into it. Imagine a large circle, you are gliding on the RBO before you step forward, when you step forward you should not be stepping inside or outside of the circle, but rather on the same arc going into it. A good way to see if you are making this mistake is to glide on the RBO, step to the LFO like you are going to jump, but just glide. You can note your direction and see if you are stepping in the correct line. Let me know if this doesn't make sense, I can draw out a little diagram. Another huge thing is to make sure that you aren't killing the ice with your toepick right before you step; this can throw your weight off SO much, thus making it hard to rotate.

A lot of people are saying to do Waltz jumps to get used to the feeling; I personally am terrified of them... For me, it feels like jumping off a cliff, where my axel has a lot more 'up" motion. Maybe this is just me. :laugh:
 

treesprite

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Doing waltz jumps isn't going to help much unless you do them a different way than most people seem to do them. When I do a waltz jump to do a waltz jump, I go more for distance and extension. For the 1/2 rotation jump to gear up for axel work, I focus on jumping upwards and keeping my leg close instead of extended. The continuation of the rotation will happen automatically if the limbs are pulled in. Read about the Lussi method for learning jumps (one of our rink's coaches is Nancy Lussi).
 

SkateNater

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Doing waltz jumps isn't going to help much unless you do them a different way than most people seem to do them. When I do a waltz jump to do a waltz jump, I go more for distance and extension. For the 1/2 rotation jump to gear up for axel work, I focus on jumping upwards and keeping my leg close instead of extended. The continuation of the rotation will happen automatically if the limbs are pulled in. Read about the Lussi method for learning jumps (one of our rink's coaches is Nancy Lussi).

This. This is what most people need to focus on, as the way you were taught the Waltz jump directly affects how much "relearning" you'll have to do to get a decent axel.

People who were taught the straight legged Waltz jumps tend to have swingy axels that do not go up.

Another thing is that you have to get used to jumping higher and pulling in more. This is an easy think to get down if you focus on it with your other singles, but if you are used to jumping as small as possible with really open positions, the Axel will be harder to get. It requires more rotation and a tighter air position unless you're a HUGE jumper, and therefore it requires more airtime than a normal single (almost as much airtime as some doubles, really, as those are generally 1.5 rotation jumps, anyways).
 

ffionhanathomas

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
I'm having problems with my axel too - I just can't seem to cross my feet tight enough so I two-foot a lot. I had them pretty good 2 weeks ago but I've completely lost it - frustrating! The same is happening with my double sal and toe.

I'm going to try getting more height on them though as I think this will help a lot.
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
I have to say, that I personally disagree with this. Axel is quite a simple jump, you just need to understand the basic movements required to do it.

Simple for whom? It's one thing to understand the movements, and another thing to do it. Many skaters don't get the axel. Obviously if you have a jump, it's going to seem "simple" than if you don't have the jump.

Doing waltz jumps isn't going to help much unless you do them a different way than most people seem to do them. When I do a waltz jump to do a waltz jump, I go more for distance and extension. For the 1/2 rotation jump to gear up for axel work, I focus on jumping upwards and keeping my leg close instead of extended. The continuation of the rotation will happen automatically if the limbs are pulled in. Read about the Lussi method for learning jumps (one of our rink's coaches is Nancy Lussi).

Do you know exactly what method this is? I have the Lussi jumps tape, and he teaches the Axel as delayed. This basically involves going into the axel like a waltz jump with straight legs. Requires a TON of height.
 
Top