Hype

Ogre Mage said:

What about Kristi in '92?

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Kristi fell victim to the hole in Rgirl's memory! Thank you for correcting me on that, Ogre Mage. I feel especially bad because I always felt Kristi's "reign" as OGM got cut short not just because of the change in the Olympic scheduling but also because of the Tonya/Nancy scandal. Plus in '92, the US was going through an ugly period of racism towards Japan that was based mostly on economics and some people said awful things like, "Too bad a real American didn't win." Some mistakes you just feel stupid for making, but some, like this one, you feel stupid and bad for making.
Rgirl

I think part of the focus on Sasha has to do with the way she looks, that is, she never really had either a "little girl" phase like Michelle and Tara or an "awkward" phase like Sarah. She was the "China Doll" (her nickname in '99/00) with the ballerina legs and pointed feet at her first senior Nats at 15. In many ways, I think she looked like a better skater than she actually was because especially for the casual fan, figure skating IS pretty positions and most of them would be hard-pressed to know the difference between a triple and a double, much less a Lutz and a flutz. Naomi Nari Nam got just as much hype when she won the silver at Nats in '01 (Sasha was injured), but Naomi did not make the podium in '02 (I think she was either 5th or 6th--I can't navigate the new USFSA website either, lol) and sadly, as we know, after that she seriously injured her hip. I do recall though that when Sasha missed '01 Nats, even though she had done two GP assignments, she was out of sight, out of mind for the entire season as far as press coverage, print, net, or otherwise. The '00/01 season was also when Irina came back with 3/3s and a sleek new bod, so she was the renewed "it" girl as far as someone who might challenge Michelle.

I think the other part of the attention Sasha has received has to do with the Internet. Internet use didn't really start to increase at a rapid rate until about 2000, so Sarah and Sasha were the first NEW US ladies to "debut," or almost debut in Sarah's case, at Sr. Nats with a full Internet audience including big FS forums and the USFSA website. So Sasha came out "camera ready" and even though it's not fair, "lookism" affects every facet of society.

Anyway, whether hype hurts a skater or not, some are going to get more than others. But along with the hype, skaters since the start of the Internet Age also get more scrutiny. I was a casual skater as a kid and up into my mid-20s and of course have watched it as long--Peggy Fleming was the my first US ladies champion; I was 12. Of course I've always known the correct take-off edges and all the major "rights and wrongs" of the sport, but I've NEVER focused so much on so many little things on so many different skaters until I got on the Internet forums. I remember skating at rinks and hearing the serious skaters talk about so-and-so's bad this or that, but at least back in the '70s, it was more general, things like, "great jumper, but no style." Maybe those of you who were serious skaters in the '70s and '80s remember differently. I know in dance dancers were picked apart mainly for having "lousy turnout" or "no extension" or (my personal favorite) "her center is all iin her crotch!" so I'm sure there was more specific analysis of other skaters among serious skaters. But as a fan, I just don't ever remember feeling like I had to watch so carefully. I'm not saying one way is good and the other not; I'm just saying I think the Internet has changed things, both for those of us who frequent the forums and for the press. I mean 10 years ago, who talked about flutzing in the press? Nobody I know of.

So that's it. More hype for some skaters but also more scrutiny, at least IMO.
Rgirl

PS: Question for Youarewhipped (besides dying to know what your name refers to) and to anyone who wants to answer the question: What do you mean by hype? To me it means full-court media press for the next Queen, King, or Royal Couple of Figure Skating. I just never would have thought of say Lisa Ervin or Vanessa Gusmeroli, even in their best years, as being hyped. I remember Gusmeroli being "the surprise World bronze medalist." BTW, just when I really started enjoying her skating and choreography, she quit. Anyway, what do people mean by hype?

hype
Function: noun
Definition: publicity
Synonyms: advertising, ballyhoo, brouhaha, buildup, plug, plugging, promotion, puff, puffery, racket, razzmatazz

Rgirl,
When I started the thread I was trying to remember if anyone had won a national, world, or Olympic titlle just out of the blue without all of the buildup or promotion by skating federations, commentators, sports writers. For example I think the first time I saw Jamie and David skate on TV Tracy Wilson was predicting the that great things would happen for them, same for Sasha, NNN, the Stieglers, Shen and Zhao.....Sarah's win at the Olympics while a surprise wasn't REALLY a surprise more like she was underestimated by fans of other skaters, IMO. Peggy had been predicting for a couple of seasons that she would do very well, the Olympic win just came four years earlier that most expected it.

It is hard to compare skaters from the different eras, pre ESPN. pre Tonya/Nancy, pre internet because with increased communication comes more opportunities for hype.

Agree with what you said about Sasha. Also, speaking as someone who has never been on the ice except on my butt on a slick sidewalk, what the people seen as experts like writers and TV commenators had to say effected how I saw the skaters in some ways.

Piel

Rgirl said:

I think part of the focus on Sasha has to do with the way she looks, that is, she never really had either a "little girl" phase like Michelle and Tara or an "awkward" phase like Sarah. She was the "China Doll" (her nickname in '99/00) with the ballerina legs and pointed feet at her first senior Nats at 15. In many ways, I think she looked like a better skater than she actually was because especially for the casual fan, figure skating IS pretty positions and most of them would be hard-pressed to know the difference between a triple and a double, much less a Lutz and a flutz.

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That's a very good point about Sasha looking like a better skater than she actually was. Above the skate, Sasha is a brilliant skater and what goes on above the skate is what most casual fans notice. She has the entire "look" to be a star -- with both her skating ability as well as her appearance. Of course, as her detractors often like to point out, Sasha from the skate down is not as impressive as Sasha above the skate. This usually leads into some argument that Sasha's talent is all smoke and mirrors, which I do not agree with.

On the other hand, Irina Slutskaya was the reverse case -- skated great from the skate down but mediocre from the skate up -- and I often felt Dick and Peggy only seemed to point out Irina's flaws without mentioning the things she did well -- strong edges, power stroking, great ice coverage out of minimal crossovers, speed, etc. The only thing they ever really gave her credit for was the jumps. Peggy in particular seems obsessed with positions and what goes on above the skate. I don't know if she does that because that's what she thinks the audience is interested in or if that's just "her." I think this led to a misperception that Irina was just being held up by the eastern bloc and wasn't very good (a view which I once shared). While there certainly were times she WAS held up (2002 GPF), this was not always true.

Blah. I seem to have wandered off topic.

agree 100% w/ogre mage

I agree!

Why doesn't ABC(or any network that show figure skating) treat skating like a respected SPORT with proper, well balanced commentary?? I think Dick and Peggey's(and I like their commentary) bias shapes alot of the the general public views on "good" skating and "bad" skating. I think this because as Ogre mentions Irina was never given credit for the things she does well besides vague "jumps". Peggy seemed to be chewing on glass during 2002 worlds were Irina clearly won the Short and Long(I say this as a Kwan fan). When will Irina finally be given her due from dick and peggy???


As to hype:
Well I'd say Kwan receved a great deal of hype circa 1995-95. But it wasn't she is the best ever type hype but she's one to watch type hype. At any rate Michelle always stricks me as a skater that, yes, was indeed hyped but lived up to that hype. Remember at 95 worlds shen some argued she skated better than everyone(including the new nats champ. Nicole Bobeck) else and should have medaled.

Piel, Ogre Mage, and KwanisQueen,
Loved each of your posts! Great points in all--Piel re the difference between hype now and hype pre ESPN, pre Internet, preTonya/Nancy, "because with increased communication comes more opportunities for hype." Exactly. Well and concisely said.

Ogre Mage, I didn't think you got OT at all. Irina is an excellent example of almost anti-hype, or negative hype, at least from the US commentators. I think Irina was beautiful in the way she used her torso and arms, but the style was more baroque or flowery, for lack of a better word, whereas US commentators seemed to prefer the more direct or what they would call cleaner styles of Kristi, Nancy, and Michelle--perhaps it is a Western vs. Eastern European style, I don't know. Anyway, loved your analysis of above and below the blade skating, of which I think Sasha and Irina are excellent examples in the way the commentators and media analyzed them.

And KwanisQueen, ITA that what the commentators say shapes much of the general public's perception of skaters. I also agree that Michelle received a lot of hype (pre Internet) back in '95 but her I believe it was 7-triple LP at '95 Worlds proved to be no fluke. This is where I think the judging system hurt a skater like Michelle who hadn't "earned" her marks yet. Had the COP been in effect then, I don't know if she would have won--Lulu's choreography was outstanding that year, IMO, and was even better in '96--but I'm sure MK would have been on the podium over Surya.

I also think Michelle then got the scrutiny that comes with the accolades. Remember when Dick started ragging Michelle's free leg on her layback? And of course there was the day the earth went crazy when she decided not to stay with Frank and the scrutiny from some people was downright cruel. Also, and perhaps this is OT, I wonder if Michelle hadn't been so lauded with all her World championships if she might have been able to leave Frank earlier rather than six months before the Olympics. I know, I say I hate it when people speculate about what was going on inside a skater's head and I do, so I'm hating what I'm doing at the moment. Even admitting that of course I have no idea what Michelle was thinking back then or ever, I'm trying to make a general point that even for those who live up to the hype, I think it can sometimes have negative effects. Not that the hype machine is ever going to wind down, unless people lose interest in figure skating and I think there will always be the core fan group. Okay, enough from me, except thanks for the definitions of hype.
Rgirl

Re: agree 100% w/ogre mage

Kwanisqueen81 said:

I agree!
When will Irina finally be given her due from dick and peggy???

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Probably never. I remember I was watching skating one day and Sarah Hughes was in her spiral. Dick commented that "an edge is a lean of the body," and praised her deep edge. He and Peggy did not mention her bent free leg and poor posture.

At a different event ( I think worlds) a year or two earlier, Irina was in her spiral and Dick and Peggy did not mention her deep edge or the great ice coverage. Instead, they commented on her lack of extention and poor line/leg position!

I think that the US is home to a whole new kind of anoying hype. Ever since 97 Nats, it's all been "which younger skater can surprise win over Kwan" hype all day long. Tara (naturally), NNN, Sarah, Sasha, etc... Tara's Oly gold gave it credibility and Sarah's Oly gold made it a tradition, we'll be hearing "which younger skater can surprise win over Kwan" hype until she quits skating.

Berthe's Ghost, ITA. Though I think the "baby ballerina" trend actually has its roots in Oksana Baiul. Lovely, very young skater shooting like a comet out of nowhere (at least for US audiences and media), great background sob story, upset win at the '94 Olympics. It all generated a ton of press and a lot of bucks. I think the US media especially has been drooling for another story like that except with a US skater. As you said, Tara and Sarah gave it credibility plus they had the added drama of "Who will unseat Michelle?" Relative to Tara, Michelle had a gradual rise and paid her dues. Sarah did too, but then she didn't continue after the Olympics as Kwan's "major rival," which I think the media wanted badly. I notice on Nats coverage they keep hyping the ladies' event as a "showdown" between Michelle and Sasha. I think any time the media can hype a rivalry, real or imagined, they do so big time. I loved what Michelle said in her interview during the OD and pairs' SP when asked about Sasha, that the media make more out of there being a rivalry than is actually true (I'm paraphrasing) and that she just focuses on what she has to do in her performance. It won't do a thing to stop the "Michelle vs. Sasha" campaign--why don't they just put boxing gloves on them and do a poster like those old fight ones, lol--but I thought Michelle was right on and very articulate in what she said.
Rgirl