Ashley or Gracie? | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Ashley or Gracie?

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Her sp will be charming with mileage, so cute. I think Sasha could give her some performance tips though. She had the charm, the style but not those jumps and it is going to be tough in Sochi with Kim and top Russian girls. They are all awesome, such depth. I think Grace could use tweets of good luck, but I don't do twitter. Hope her fans push her a bit. She will face a very confident Wagner. I vote Ashley but can't wait to see if Gold is a Tara or Sarah in 2 years. I hope she is a fighter like them.

I hope she doesn't start emulating Sasha or take tips from her. Sasha has improved her ability to draw an audience in while skating SOI but she's always left many people cold with her performances - they are pretty (and she wasn't Kwan) but they just don't touch a lot of people. Her style and Gracie's are totally different - Gracie is much more athletic and powerful and her personality is much more playful and quirky and much less diva-ish. I just want Scott Brown to bring those things out in her skating like he has in the Sp. She's so removed from the whole thing in terms of politics, etc, she's only concerned about how SHE skates (and Carley, too) that she may find "tweets of good luck" kind of odd...I think if any former Americans' styles are similar, I'd say Tonya Harding (when she was at her best trained), Debbie Thomas, and Elaine Zayak. All three were strong powerful skaters with determined athletic styles that were appealing to audiences and had some semblance of artistry.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
How about this - someone had said Gracie looks like a junior. I said, hold on, let me show you a top junior....and see the difference.

I used Radionova because I think she is great - and therefore able to illustrate my point much better.

Time for both of you to get over it.......:rolleye:

Radionova is 13, Gracie should be more mature than her. And what kind of music/programs do you think she should be skating to at 13???? Radionova's programs are appropriate for her age. However, I will say this Gold may be more mature, but I think Radionova is a better performer-already.

In fact in general I feel that Gracie pretty much is all jumps, I find her lacking a bit in finish/danceability and also in charisma/performance with the crowd.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
At this point I do think Wagner is stronger than Gracie but Gracie has time. Who knows if Gracie will grow as a skater or not; I hope she gets a chance to grow some roots. Ashley will be key to the future for the USA.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I hope she doesn't start emulating Sasha or take tips from her. Sasha has improved her ability to draw an audience in while skating SOI but she's always left many people cold with her performances - they are pretty (and she wasn't Kwan) but they just don't touch a lot of people.

I think Sasha would have been much more well received had she not competed during Kwan's era. After her 1998 heartbreak, so many of us wanted to see her capture an OGM, and Sasha (along with a few others) was among the biggest threats to that happening. Gracie is much different than Sasha, but one thing that Gold could learn is a better command of her performance like Cohen had. I would hope Gracie develops to be a better artist than the 3 skaters you mention (Tonya, Debbie and Elaine) because, without the jumps, all three are pretty boring skaters.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Radionova is 13, Gracie should be more mature than her. And what kind of music/programs do you think she should be skating to at 13???? Radionova's programs are appropriate for her age. However, I will say this Gold may be more mature, but I think Radionova is a better performer-already.

In fact in general I feel that Gracie pretty much is all jumps, I find her lacking a bit in finish/danceability and also in charisma/performance with the crowd.

A poster said Gracie looks like a junior - so I compared Gracie to a very good junior.

Easy to see the difference, no?

I am astounded by the baffling lack of comprehension regarding my comment.

It was never a matter of fairness - just a simple comparison between a top junior and a new senior skater.

My whole point was that Gracie is further along and looks more mature on the ice than even juniors who will win JGP events this season.

Those who can't understand such a simple point could try taking two aspirins and then report back in the morning...... ;)
 
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mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Gracie is more like the power skaters I mentioned who when they delivered their technical goods, they had good skating to back it up even if it wasn't "pretty diva on ice" kind of skating. I always found Tonya to be a skater who could totally deliver a good performance when she was actually trained, even if it wasn't from the ballet or opera genre. Debbie had a quirky, driven personality as well. I think she's just got to find a way to bring that out in both programs (as opposed to just her SP this year).
 

Binthere

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
I would NEVER underestimate the Russian girls. Oh my goodness but the PIPELINE of baby ballerinas is tremendous.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I think Gracie will go to Worlds this season because we need a power jumper, so unless Agnes can get consistent or Ashley starts doing the 3-3, getting full credit for it, and stops 2-footing jumps, that leaves Gracie. Flatt and Gao were hopes in the past to fill this role but I doubt it will happen for either while balancing full course loads as pre-med students at Stanford and Harvard. Mirai has nice jumps too but she needs a 3-3 and the 3s back in addition to fixing her URs and other jump issues to be a power jumper. It doesn't matter that the rest of Gracie's skating isn't that great, her jumps are huge and earn her a lot of points and her PCS, spins are adequate. She's not uber flexible nor does she look like a baby ballerina but she's blonde and has a pretty face and eventually she might get there artistically. She kind of reminds me of Rochette actually, similar build and power, but Gracie has 3-3s and consistent jumps which Rochette never had, but like Gracie Joannie was not naturally known as an artist.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
But Jro became a very sophisticated, elegant skater. I saw it from the get go. Surprises me when people don't see how gorgeous her skating is.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I'm with you, Skateluvr. Joannie's style is very smooth. That wonderful Samson and Delilah program!--especially the way she performed it at Canadian Nationals. Sometimes we get lucky, and an athletic skater figures out the secret of musicality; Joannie is an example of that.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
"Gracie Gold looking to step up again
Unknown a year ago, she wowed U.S. skating scene"
Globetrotting by Philip Hersh
11:03 a.m. CDT, September 13, 2012

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...ng-to-step-up-again-20120913,0,1187361.column

ETA, excerpt:
"The short program, to the upbeat “Hernando’s Hideaway,” already looks very polished. The free skate uses some ironic and some largely monochromatic sections of music from the Holocaust story film, “Life is Beautiful.” It will be a much greater interpretive challenge for Gold all season."​
 
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skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
ITA. from all accounts at the M Weiss Sept. 8 show, Ashley's "Red Violin" was wonderful. Looks like we are in for another treat from Wagner this season. I think Ashley will hold her place this year, unless Gold just out jumps her so perfectly, but I still expect Gold for Ashley, and Silver for Gold, hehe.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Ashley Wagner ‏@AshWagner2010
First competition of the year tonight! #andtheseasonbegins
6:27 PM - 22 Sep 12​

Doug Mattis ‏@DougMattis
Just watched @AshWagner2010 skate a STUNNING SP at Paramount in LA. Major improvement. Watch out Worlds!!
9:29 PM - 22 Sep 12​

Doug Mattis ‏@DougMattis
@MarlaBinoche @ashwagner2010 Don't have the video...but wait till u see this season's programs. Wonderful.
10:26 PM - 22 Sep 12​

Ashley Wagner ‏@AshWagner2010
@DougMattis thank you thank you thank you!!
10:31 PM - 22 Sep 12​

Ashley Wagner ‏@AshWagner2010
Awesome short program tonight and a good start to the season..I'm a happy girl tonight!
10:48 PM - 22 Sep 12 ·​

ETA, more good news:
David Baden ‏@DavidBaden
Look 4 @AshWagner2010 blogs starting soon leading up to the #sochi Olympics with @espnW @icenetwork @USFigureSkating Grt partnership @espn
6:19 PM - 20 Sep 12​
 
 
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Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
So excited to read all this good news about Ashley's SP!! I can't wait to see her new programs! I'm optimistic there'll be videos on youtube of Japan Open in a few short weeks ;)
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Yes, Wagner's SP is as good as it sounds...it's just up to her to deliver and keep up with it when it counts most.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Yes, Wagner's SP is as good as it sounds...it's just up to her to deliver and keep up with it when it counts most.

I haven't seen it - is there a link?

I still think US Natls is wide open for the Ladies but like you said - it's about delivering the goods when it counts.

Are you going to do a US Ladies preview thread for this season?
Not sure if Caroline, Mirai and Rachael won't be in the mix come Natls.

Agnes certainly seems ready for a breakout season.
And what about Alissa? Will she be healthy enough to be a factor?
 
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FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I haven't seen it - is there a link?

I still think US Natls is wide open for the Ladies but like you said - it's about delivering the goods when it counts.

Are you going to do a US Ladies preview thread for this season?
Not sure if Caroline, Mirai and Rachael won't be in the mix come Natls.

Agnes certainly seems ready for a breakout season.
And what about Alissa? Will she be healthy enough to be a factor?
I don't think Alissa can be a serious contender if Ashley, Gracie of Agnes skate their best, considering that she's still recovering from surgery and that the difficulty of her programs has never been high (she doesn't have 3-3 in the SP or 7 triples in the FS), PCS and the spins are not enough if your jumps aren't stable... (Maybe, after the US Classics, we should change the name of this thread to "Ashley, Agnes or Gracie?")
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I don't think Alissa can be a serious contender if Ashley, Gracie of Agnes skate their best, considering that she's still recovering from surgery and that the difficulty of her programs has never been high (she doesn't have 3-3 in the SP or 7 triples in the FS), PCS and the spins are not enough if your jumps aren't stable... (Maybe, after the US Classics, we should change the name of this thread to "Ashley, Agnes or Gracie?")

BTW, I said "in the mix" which is suggesting a top 5 finish with a shot at the podium.

Who has seven triples in their LP (and has ever hit them in competition)?

Maybe Gracie when she was still skating juniors? Maybe Ashley at 4CC last season?

Even world-wide I don't think we see that many clean 7 triple programs from the senior Ladies.

Carolina? Mao? Yuna?
 
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Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I'm with you, Skateluvr. Joannie's style is very smooth. That wonderful Samson and Delilah program!--especially the way she performed it at Canadian Nationals. Sometimes we get lucky, and an athletic skater figures out the secret of musicality; Joannie is an example of that.

I once read that Joannie's programs including at Oly 2010 were actually the most developed and intricate in the vein of Chan, Buttle and Lambiel but it was not recognized (yes moreso developed and intricate than Yuna and Mao). Despite the Mirai deserved bronze; everyone felt sorry for Rochette mongers it certainly is something to consider that even a few errors when you have good skating skilsl and intricate program you can do well like we have seen in the past from Lambiel, Buttle, Takahashi and Chan.
 
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