State of American Ladies: 2012-13 Season | Page 44 | Golden Skate

State of American Ladies: 2012-13 Season

pangtongfan

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Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Miki's jumps are a lot better. That's only why she won, Yuna messed up the SP and then Ando racked up a bunch of points doing a bunch of +GOE triples in the 2nd half of her FS. That's COP for you.

In the LP both Kim and Ando had 5 triples. The difference was the jump Ando missed (doubling and stumbling out of the triple toe) was worth less points than the jump Kim missed (singling the triple flip), and Kim missed a single double jump on the back end of a combination by singling out and also losing out on the positive GOE she would normally get because of it, had she done the simple double toe well she wins even with the singled flip, only 5 triples, and her mistake in the short program. Ando also seemed to find the codes loopholes better and had a smarter jump layout as even without doing a triple-triple her base value was much higher (I think something like 6 points higher), although that has something to do with Kim popping two jumps into singles as well. Those were Ando's only advantage as Kim got as high or higher GOEs on all her completed elements (including the jumps, remember Ando has no edge on Kim here like she does on most skaters) and as usual higher PCS. In the SP Kim did only a triple-double and stumbled out/fell on her triple lutz and still outscored Ando who skated cleanly so the judges still considered her the better skater, it was only her making more mistakes that allowed Ando to win. Ando's other World title in 2007 was even more aided by significant errors by Kim, and that time Ando had to skate cleanly to even take advantage (and also aided by Asada's missed combination in the short, a downgraded triple and two two footed jumps in the long, and she still barely won over Mao).

Anyway Kim is irrelevant to what I said, of course Ando has better jumps than Czisny, and better basic skating but Czisny has much better spins, spirals, better programs generally, and superior musical interpretation, style, and line. It is a shame the judges did not reward her for those things at Worlds by comparision due to her lack of name, even in her career year and after great performances at both the GP final and Nationals. There is no way she should have not have atleast medaled at the 2011 Worlds over Kostner and Leonova given the performances, and if she were wearing a Yu Na Kim or Miki Ando mask she might well have won given how they skated. Yu Na Kim does mediocre spirals and gets +3s in GOE on them sometimes, while Czisny does stunning ones and sometimes only gets +1s GOE. Yu Na also was scored much higher on spins in Vancouver than Nagasu which frankly makes no sense, of course she still deserved to crush Nagasu there overall considering everything else, even with how great Nagasu also was there, but on spins alone Nagasu should have atleast gained equally as many points. Miki Ando skates around the ice on two foot with almost no transitioners, and mostly ugly posture and line, and still gets huge PCS. The sport is still foul when it comes to scoring, even with a new judging system.
 
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Reginald

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Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Will the US automatically send the top two finishers at nationals to the World Team Trophy?

I wold like to see Mirai and Christina go, because they've never been.
 

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
Anyway Kim is irrelevant to what I said, of course Ando has better jumps than Czisny, and better basic skating but Czisny has much better spins, spirals, better programs generally, and superior musical interpretation, style, and line. It is a shame the judges did not reward her for those things at Worlds by comparision due to her lack of name, even in her career year and after great performances at both the GP final and Nationals. There is no way she should have not have atleast medaled at the 2011 Worlds over Kostner and Leonova given the performances, and if she were wearing a Yu Na Kim or Miki Ando mask she might well have won given how they skated. Yu Na Kim does mediocre spirals and gets +3s in GOE on them sometimes, while Czisny does stunning ones and sometimes only gets +1s GOE. Yu Na also was scored much higher on spins in Vancouver than Nagasu which frankly makes no sense, of course she still deserved to crush Nagasu there overall considering everything else, even with how great Nagasu also was there, but on spins alone Nagasu should have atleast gained equally as many points. Miki Ando skates around the ice on two foot with almost no transitioners, and mostly ugly posture and line, and still gets huge PCS. The sport is still foul when it comes to scoring, even with a new judging system.

Czisny got plenty of GOE for her spins. Her step seq sucked. Her PCS are almost the same as Kostner, which is really wrong.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2011/wc2011_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

In the LP, she did what she could in the spins, but her step seq sucked again. Her jumps aren't ever going to get her good GOE.
Ando was the cleanest and should beat Czisny. Kim, Kostner also had much better programs, and should handily beat her. Leonova beat her in the SP despite having almost 2 PCS points deficit. And didn't make any major error like Czisny did in the LP.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2011/wc2011_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

Nobody robbed Czisny. Her PCS was way too high compare to Kostner. Kostner got level 4 stepseq + huge GOE. Are you kidding about Czisny placing above Kostner and Leonova? Under what planet?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Will the US automatically send the top two finishers at nationals to the World Team Trophy?

I wold like to see Mirai and Christina go, because they've never been.

The rule is that the U.S. champion automatically gets to go. There is a strong tradition that they go right down the line if they have more than one spot, but the tules allow the federation to take other factors into account, like results at international competitions. This hardly ever happens, though.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Reginald is talking about WTT, not Worlds. WTT usually goes down the line in asking. Last year, Zhang, Zawadski, Nagasu, Gao were all asked and refused because of timing of WTT in the season.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Former figure skating champion Rachael Flatt on coming back after injury

Caveat: The Stanford Daily's headline (for a nice article) seems a little misleading to me. Flatt does not guarantee that she will make a comeback.
Excerpt:
“At this point it’s just a day-by day thing,” Flatt said. “I’m not entirely sure if I will be able to return and compete again, which would be disappointing, but I really hope I can get back out there and do some more work.​
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Former figure skating champion Rachael Flatt on coming back after injury

Caveat: The Stanford Daily's headline (for a nice article) seems a little misleading to me. Flatt does not guarantee that she will make a comeback.
Excerpt:
“At this point it’s just a day-by day thing,” Flatt said. “I’m not entirely sure if I will be able to return and compete again, which would be disappointing, but I really hope I can get back out there and do some more work.​

Glad Rachael is doing well --not that I expected to hear otherwise! It sounds like she's enjoying school and has no regrets about her career. I'm really glad she has such a great attitude.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Man...still in rehab after last night...how's that for craziness?

Looking forward to Worlds - Wagner now has had TWO mediocre free skates in a row and might be losing her consistency. And to top it off, she still has no 3-3. Safe to say the world podium is slipping out of reach. She may be 4th again but she'll probably be looking at closer to 7th at this point.

As for Gracie Gold - she is 1 for 3 in the short program...she has shown an inability to control her nerves in high-pressure situations...what's to make me think she can get it together in time for Worlds? The best freeskate in the world will get you almost nowhere on the World stage if you don't do your job in the SP, as Wagner found out last year.

I hate to say it, but I think we'll be stuck with 2 spots for the second straight Winter Olympics...
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Don't count Wagner out - she got injured at the GPF, had to take time out of her training for that and again with the bad salad. With the full time between Nationals and Worlds to prepare, I expect to see the spicy, saucy, attacking Wagner back.

Don't count Gold out either - she may have been 1/3 so far this season in the SP but this is the first time she's had a completely clean LP in competition and this is going to do two things:
1) boost her confidence
2) she will analyze what went RIGHT about the LP preparation and use that going forward to mentally prepare for each phase

If she puts down a similar LP content to Nationals and gets a 55 PCS as Flatt Fan is suggesting (which, she got a 58 for a not great skate at RC, so I think she can get a 60+ with a clean LP if she hits in the SP), she'll still score at least a 120 with very stingy GOEs (5 total points in GOE). If she can hit on the SP like RC (which she is perfectly capable of doing), She'll be in the 180-190 range.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Man...still in rehab after last night...how's that for craziness?

Looking forward to Worlds - Wagner now has had TWO mediocre free skates in a row and might be losing her consistency. And to top it off, she still has no 3-3. Safe to say the world podium is slipping out of reach. She may be 4th again but she'll probably be looking at closer to 7th at this point.

As for Gracie Gold - she is 1 for 3 in the short program...she has shown an inability to control her nerves in high-pressure situations...what's to make me think she can get it together in time for Worlds? The best freeskate in the world will get you almost nowhere on the World stage if you don't do your job in the SP, as Wagner found out last year.

I hate to say it, but I think we'll be stuck with 2 spots for the second straight Winter Olympics...

Maybe but that would most certainly be the outlook with any two combination of girls we could have sent this year. What does that tell you? Tells me the USA ladies deserves two spots. Let's hope Ashley and Gracie prove us wrong!
 

FlattFan

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Joined
Jan 4, 2010
If she puts down a similar LP content to Nationals and gets a 55 PCS as Flatt Fan is suggesting (which, she got a 58 for a not great skate at RC, so I think she can get a 60+ with a clean LP if she hits in the SP), she'll still score at least a 120 with very stingy GOEs (5 total points in GOE). If she can hit on the SP like RC (which she is perfectly capable of doing), She'll be in the 180-190 range.

Do you think she deserves 60+ for PCS?

Young phenoms in the past don't break 60
Miki in 2007 W championship where she actually WON the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9U76uPa8Ss

Mao asada at 2007 gpf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJ_mG6Qvno

Gracie is a mid 50 PCS kind of girl. Just because it's inflated to incredible level doesnt make it right.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
I am saying if an international panel gave her a 58 for a flawed FS, a 61 for a squeaky FS at NATIONALS isn't out of the question or truly inflated. In addition, you can't compare where scores were (average wise) in 2007 with now because PCS scores have been creeping upwards in general since the last Olympics. That same performance in 2012 would have scored MUCH higher in PCS than it did in 2007.
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
unfortunately to be it girl (sell products in u.s has you have to have face). i been told i was homely and ugly since i was born. i don't have the photographic/photogenic face . it helps in job interview, meeting with public, perception. they hold you in higher standard.help people watch you and overlook mistakes etc. sad but true--now with social media, internet, you tube etc. comments on looks, etc. shouldn't but does automatically consciously or unconsciously

in my order of ranking of photographic/photgenic faces best top to worst last
sorry but going into last half of this year/next year olympics.
looks help.

i
1) alissa
2)ashley
3) gracie
4) caroline
5) mirai & christina
6) rachel
7) courtney
8) agnes.
didn't count senior ladies who hasn't skated in a senior event -went back to juniors.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I am saying if an international panel gave her a 58 for a flawed FS, a 61 for a squeaky FS at NATIONALS isn't out of the question or truly inflated. In addition, you can't compare where scores were (average wise) in 2007 with now because PCS scores have been creeping upwards in general since the last Olympics. That same performance in 2012 would have scored MUCH higher in PCS than it did in 2007.

The reason I picked those performances was the age of the skaters then. They were "freshly" out of the junior circuit just like Gracie now. They didn't crack 60 as newbies even when they were phenoms and with tremendous reputation and expectation preceded them.

PCS are still quite low for someone like Gao, Cesario, Hicks, etc... So I don't see how Gracie can get that kind of PCS (even at the national level)

And just because they gave her 58 doesn't make it right. She's a mid 50 kind of gal. The good thing, I said again, is she can fix it. If they continue to inflate her PCS like this, she has no incentive to fix her package, and then when time comes, they will put her down for the likes of Mao, Caro, Yuna even when these girls are messy. It won't be pretty for her down the line. Fix it now.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
That is your opinion (that she's a mid-50s kind of gal), but her good performances are generating better scores that that (high 50s-60); she's all about the execution and if she doesn't execute the technical content, it will drop to the low-mid 50s (there's that string that ties a big TES to a bigger than expected PCS - it's that hard tech content that's completed well often drives up PCS). Even so, if she goes out and executes her technical content in the FS and gets say a 55 or 56 in PCS (as you believe she deserves), she'll be around 125 in the LP which, the last time I looked, is a pretty big score (her GOEs are hard to really reduce if she delivers; her technical BV is 60+ and she got 11 points in GOE at Nationals and that wasn't outrageous). If she also delivers in the SP, she'll score somewhere in the low 60s total there. A 185-190 is a pretty darn good first year score, even if your PCS is way lower than your TES because that's the aspect you're working on...which I would say is on the priority list of things "to do" for her since she's made a couple trips to Canton to work with Marina and her team this year on the SS aspects.
 
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