Did Michelle Kwan kill pro skating?

Octavio Cinquanta killed pro skating competitions. Speedy was upset that the ISU made the skaters stars through the GP and the major ISU competitions, and then the pro tours and competitions cashed in on that stardom and the ISU got nothing. When the top skaters could make good prize money, and take paid touring gigs in the off-season, there was great incentive to stay eligible.

When the brightest stars continued to compete in ISU eligible skating, the pro ranks thinned. The ISU held "open" competitions for both pros and ISU eligible skaters. The aging pros were no competition for the ISU skaters who were at the peak of their abilities. The major US skating tours conflicted with the ISU competition season and skaters could not do both.

Last but certainly not least, the "post-whack" skating boom saw interest in figure skating, which had previously been a niche sport that the rest of the world cared about only in Olympic years, rise to the stratosphere. Every promoter out there with an interest in the sport was producing made for TV competitions with less than the top ranked pros, and questionable judging. The public lost interest quickly. Audiences declined. Figure skating fans have been casting blame ever since, but in reality, skating is returning to its niche.

merrywidow said:

I'm curious about ticket prices in various countries. Just as examples are tickets for TEB or Cup of China as expensive in US dollars as tickets for Skate America?

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CoC:
Cheap by western standards, but you have to remember the average income level is much lower also. But for urban Chinese residents, it's considered reasonable compared to alternate activities, and priced to encourage attendance. At current exchange rates, Cup of China tickets for the day of SP's were in four price levels ranging from roughly USD 5 to 16, with a few VIP seats about $75. Day of FS's and the exhibition ranged from $8-32 with VIP's $95. Discounts offered for package of (2) or (3) seats in the top 2 and VIP price levels. This is very similar to levels seen in past CoC's, including when the competition was staged in Beijing. Chinese often purchase the cheapest two levels, then take unoccupied seats in the more expensive levels (closer to the ice) and just move on if the true occupants show up. Except for the VIP section, restrictions on seat poaching are loosely enforced depending on mood of ushers that day.

ETA: Tickets are not per session they are per day, so once you buy a ticket for that day, you can see all the events dance, singles, and pairs. As little as $5 for 7-8 hours of skating is a bargain! But no in-outs; once you leave the venue's outside doors, you can't get back in on the same ticket. No extra taxes or markups if you buy at the venue (tickets always available so far) or from some of the authorized local agents. It's always shocking to see outrageous extra taxes or "facility fees" or agent markups/fulfillment fees for similar events esp in North America. I don't know about Europe. But the higher the all-in costs, the more part-time fans sitting on the fence will decide against attending. Especially in a bad economy.

bigsisjiejie said:

Chinese often purchase the cheapest two levels, then take unoccupied seats in the more expensive levels (closer to the ice) and just move on if the true occupants show up. Except for the VIP section, restrictions on seat poaching are loosely enforced depending on mood of ushers that day.

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Sounds like US Nationals.

Tonichelle said:

Sounds like US Nationals.

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The first thing anyone asks you when you're sitting down by the ice is "Where are your REAL seats?".

Dragonlady said:

Figure skating fans have been casting blame ever since, but in reality, skating is returning to its niche.

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But do we have to acquiesce with, "oh well"?

The Detroit Pistons basketball team was so little regarded in the 1960s that on game day they just opened the doors of the arena and anyone could walk in for free. Now the franchise is worth $400 million (and they are no better this year than they were back then).

Before the 1940s U.S. and Canadian grid iron football consisted mostly of barnstorming teams that traveled around to small towns and played exhoiitions or scrimmaged against the local boys. Now a thirty-second ad on the Super Bowl nets 3.5 million.

It deems like figure skating could make an attempt to grab a piece of the pie, instead of just saying, amateur and professional competitive figure skating wasn't very popular fifty years ago and it still isn't. (I know, easier said than done.)

PS. Maybe Ashley Wagner's new contract with Nike is step in the right direction. Maybe the new money-making ideal will be the lady jock, not the prom queen. (Actually, more and more these days the lady jock is the prom queen. )

Dragonlady said:

Last but certainly not least, the "post-whack" skating boom saw interest in figure skating, which had previously been a niche sport that the rest of the world cared about only in Olympic years, rise to the stratosphere. Every promoter out there with an interest in the sport was producing made for TV competitions with less than the top ranked pros, and questionable judging. The public lost interest quickly. Audiences declined. Figure skating fans have been casting blame ever since, but in reality, skating is returning to its niche.

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1994 really was a perfect storm. You had the aftermath of the 'whack heard 'round the world' coinciding with the return of skaters such as Witt, Boitano and T&D to the Olympics, and the rise of skaters such as Oksana Baiul and Elvis Stojko.

No she wasnt to blame. One skater alone cant carry pro skating.

pangtongfan said:

No she wasnt to blame. One skater alone cant carry pro skating.

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Except, of course, in Korea. But that's a one-of-a-kind situation.

I think pro skating would have died a few years sooner but for Nancy and Tonya. Until 1988 the pros were doing the same content as the amateurs, and of course combined that with superior presentation. I think when Rory Flack won the big pro competition in 1995 it was a big indicator of how far the gap was between the pro level and the amateur level.

Mathman said:

But do we have to acquiesce with, "oh well"?

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Realistically speaking, there's not a lot we can do. I always encourage samily and friends to come out to events or watch on TV. I also provide tickets to family members for skating.

It's up to the ISU and Skate Canada (or your local federation) to sell the market the sport in any sort of major way. I think that Skate Canada and the Canadian networks do a good job with that. Our events are sold out or close to it, the two major Canadian networks both do an excellent job broadcasting and promoting the sport, with knowledgeable announcers who have done a good job teaching viewers about the new judging system.

Ticket prices for live events are very reasonable - the top price for all-event tickets to seniors Canadians this year is $150.00 and $40 for Juniors. Worlds is expensive but the ISU takes so many of the tickets leaving few paying ticket holders and the John Labatt Centre is not a huge facility.

I think that the USFSA has not done such a good job selling the sport in the US. Neither ABC nor NBC provided a broadcast crew who understood the first thing about CoP and denigrated the scoring system at every opportunity. This judging system has now been place for nearly 10 years and the lead commentators still don't know anything about CoP. Ticket prices are very high for live events, organization is uneven and there seems to be lots of complaints from fans who attend.

I also think the USFSA does a poor job of marketing it's champions, Ladies excepted. I realize it's been a long time since the US had a Pairs team on the podium at Worlds but the Ice-dancers have excelled since Tanith and Ben won the silver medal in Turin in 2006. US Ice-Dancers have been on the podium at Worlds in every year since 2005, except 2009 when B&A had that nasty fall in the CD, and Davis & White won silver at the Olympics and the first Worlds Championship for a US Dance team in 2011 and still Dance is seldom on TV.

drivingmissdaisy said:

I think pro skating would have died a few years sooner but for Nancy and Tonya. Until 1988 the pros were doing the same content as the amateurs, and of course combined that with superior presentation. I think when Rory Flack won the big pro competition in 1995 it was a big indicator of how far the gap was between the pro level and the amateur level.

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The ironic thing is when Burghart won that event she beat the reigning World Champion from only 8 months earlier Yuka Sato who finished only 3rd (Elizabeth Manley who also had a triple lutz still was 2nd).

I ended up becoming bored with those pro competitions for pretty much the reasons Dragonlady mentioned. But now I kind of miss having a circuit for skaters to compete with each other without the technical requirements of top-level amateur skating. A lot of skaters seemed to let loose and really perform in such an environment. It was also an opportunity for older skaters to keep competing and striving for quality performances when their bodies or minds weren't up for all the quads or triple-triples. I wonder if this can ever be resurrected in some form.

Rachmaninoff said:

I ended up becoming bored with those pro competitions for pretty much the reasons Dragonlady mentioned. But now I kind of miss having a circuit for skaters to compete with each other without the technical requirements of top-level amateur skating. A lot of skaters seemed to let loose and really perform in such an environment. It was also an opportunity for older skaters to keep competing and striving for quality performances when their bodies or minds weren't up for all the quads or triple-triples. I wonder if this can ever be resurrected in some form.

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There was the pro event in Japan about a month ago...
ITA w/you, I'd love to see the return of professional competitions. Maybe I'm looking at everything through rose colored lenses, but I miss the professional skating of 80s & 90s, where we got to see skaters like Bechke & Petrov find their niche as pro skaters, or got to see skaters, like Rory Flack-Burghart that we normally wouldn't get a chance to see. I don't miss the cheesy skating specials that were on T.V. almost every week, but I'd welcome a return of World Pros.

I agree whole heartedly! Kurt's "Singing in the Rain" program is my favorite of all time - of any skater and I saw Toller skate live many times over the years and enjoyed his specials. Also Barbara Berezowski and David Porter were probably one of the best looking ice dance couples to grace the ice.

Thanks for this great comment.

I don't think Michelle Kwan is to blame - hardly. I would blame the economy and people's general lack of interest in figure skating. Here in Canada, Hockey rules the air waves (except during a lock out, like now). Figure Skating does not bring in enough revenue for tv and of course, many skaters decide to join ice shows and or coach after their competitive years end. Many factors killed pro skating, not Michelle Kwan.

no, it wasn't Michelle fault. I always thought that skaters like Katarina, Oksana, Nancy, Rosalyn, etc. Killed the pro competitions. These skater never pushed themselves technically and most of the time, there were a lot of standing and posing around instead of skating.

ks777 said:

no, it wasn't Michelle fault. I always thought that skaters like Katarina, Oksana, Nancy, Rosalyn, etc. Killed the pro competitions. These skater never pushed themselves technically and most of the time, there were a lot of standing and posing around instead of skating.

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It's difficult to maintain that level because eligible athletes train those jumps full time, and the pros understandably can't do the repetitions needed as their bodies age. But ITA when the focus is on the performance and the technical content is lacking, it doesn't feel like a real competition.

In terms of the pro tours, I think the high ticket prices killed pro skating. In 1998, I took my daughter to Stars on Ice at Maple Leaf Gardens. I paid $130 for two on-ice tickets for myself and my then 8-year old daughter. This spring, I priced Stars on Ice tickets at the Air Canada Centre, and tickets (not even on the ice) were $330.00. This was for two seats, on the corner, about 10 rows back.

I don't know about you but I don't make nearly triple the money I made in 1998, and the tickets prices have really discouraged me from going to live pro skating. The ONLY show I would cheerfully pay decent money for is the Imperial Stars on Ice from Europe. I don't really like exhibition shows but their Nutcracker on Ice was the BEST skating show I've ever seen. Sadly the tickets didn't sell well in Toronto and they've not been back.

Wow, those are the prices nowadays? No wonder I never go. The last event I went to was in 2003 or so, and we bought tickets all the way back to save money. To pay more than $150 for a seat for anything seems next to impossible for a parent with one or more young daughters. Exactly what is the target audience for these events--Oprah Winfrey and Paris Hilton?

SOI is definitely pricing itself into extinction. I get with fewer shows/people coming they need to meet a bottom line, but come on!