Can Sotnikova overcome the pressure? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Can Sotnikova overcome the pressure?

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
Adelina's jumps aren't these rinky dinky things that she's eeking out because she's this itty bitty thing who can rotate like "a bat out of hell' They are big and huge which I think puts her in good stead to keep them. Maybe they are too big I don't know.. And theres' more to this girl than 3/3s as well.

Her presentation is good. Her jumps are ok. They aren't small, but they aren't textbook by any mean. Don't tell me you never noticed how pitch forward she is in almost all of her jumps. That is bad technique.
She can maybe go for a bronze medal, but I don't see her competing for gold unless the others really fall apart. It would be a tall order to catch Caro even with 5 triples.
 
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Jun 21, 2003
You are to young maybe -but I watched Irina skate mostly like a tomboy from when she was 13 to 19. It wasn't always pretty - but eventually she learned how to skate two good programs.

Irina at 16 would have no chance against Adelina....the difference in talent is just too great.

Tomboy or not, Irina did win Nebelhorn at 14, World juniors at just barely 16 (her birthday is in February), Europeans at barely 17 and World bronze the same year.

We will have to wait and see if Adelina matches Slutskaya's record of two world championships, two Olympic medals, four grand prix finals, thirteen individual grand prix events, and seven European championships.
 

janetfan

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Tomboy or not, Irina did win Nebelhorn at 14, World juniors at just barely 16 (her birthday is in February), Europeans at barely 17 and World bronze the same year.

We will have to wait and see if Adelina matches Slutskaya's record of two world championships, two Olympic medals, four grand prix finals, thirteen individual grand prix events, and seven European championships.

Is it fair to say Irina won most of her major titles when she was considerably older than Adelina is now? Make that 5-10 yeasr older....:)

BTW, there seems to be a dispute on the board -apparently when Mirai wins Nebelhorn it is nothing. But when Irina wins it - what , suddenly it is a big title?

What is this - a case of Romneysia? ;)
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
BTW, there seems to be a dispute on the board -apparently when Mirai wins Nebelhorn it is nothing. But when Irina wins what - suddenly it is a big title?

Nebelhorn rocks. Besides Mirai and Irina (twice) former winners include Alissa Czisny (twice), Carolina Kostner (twice), Jennifer Don in the first ever figure skating contest judged by the CoP :), Shizuka Arakawa, Debi Thomas, and Dorothy Hamill. :rock:
 

skateluvr

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Oct 23, 2011
Miki with her performances from the 2007 Worlds would have also easily won the Torino Olympics, and Mao with a major mistake in the short and several mistakes in the long still nearly won those same Worlds herself. So I dont see what this shows to be honest.

People forget Shizuka played it safe, very safe after knowing Sasha fell. Shizuka was practicing 3x3x3! She didn't bother to do her 3x3 as she knew she just needed to skate clean with a 3x2 to win.. That was an uninspiring Oly performance-beneath her abilities really. That's why perfrmances like Yuna, Mao, Tara, Sarah , MK stay with us forever-these are gutsy skaters who seize the moment. Shizuka bloomed later, too but Japan and Russia have deep ladies talent. I think the next Oly medalist will be from Asia again. Tut looks like she will develop like Elene G. Breasts get in the way. I think Adelina neds to find better music, choreo, costume. I am always amazed at the Russian costumes in singles and dance. Pairs usually are far more tasteful.

Anyway, remember what Irina skated like? Eventually she got much better. Adelina will matter to me when she has a beautiful line, flow presentation. May she one day be as exquisite as Alissa, Sasha, Mao, Carolina. What they do at times matters more to some than a 3x3. Yuna was a sleek racehorse who peaked at 19 and was a true CoP skater. I doubt we will see that Yuna in Sochi. She is not in killer mode anymore-its about her duty to qualify "tickets." It would be sad to see a lesser version win with jumps if all else failed in their programs.Who knows who will be there and have the skate of the two nights? Could be someone we think will be 4th, like in SLC. Too early to dismiss Adelina. She's just beginning, I hope.
 

FlattFan

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People forget Shizuka played it safe, very safe after knowing Sasha fell. Shizuka was practicing 3x3x3! She didn't bother to do her 3x3 as she knew she just needed to skate clean with a 3x2 to win.. That was an uninspiring Oly performance-beneath her abilities really. That's why perfrmances like Yuna, Mao, Tara, Sarah , MK stay with us forever-these are gutsy skaters who seize the moment.

I thought it was an elegant performance. I was mesmerized by how smooth her skating was. Then her Y spiral. That was a first. Then the Ina Bauer. She had a lot of moments in that performance. Skating skill that is to die for, and choreography that is unmatched. Her PCS was too low, actually. By today's standard, she would break 70 on PCS. Ashley Wagner just got 63+ PCS at Skate America.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
People forget Shizuka played it safe, very safe after knowing Sasha fell. Shizuka was practicing 3x3x3! She didn't bother to do her 3x3 as she knew she just needed to skate clean with a 3x2 to win.

Irina Slutskaya was left to skate so IMO there is no way Shizuka did any less than what she set out to do. As it was with Irina left to skate, Shizuka's performance in Turin was definitely beatable by Irina, and in fact Irina would have beaten it with ALL her performances that season except the Olympic one, and this despite that Irina never matched her many of her 04-05 season level performances that season. It is not like the performance she did she knew would have locked up the gold medal over anyone who was left so purposely held herself back to that, lol! That was obviously all she was able to do that night. She didnt even skate clean without a 3/3, she doubled a triple loop and only did 5 triples, one can still attempt up to 7 even without a 3/3 (as Sasha did). As for why she didnt do the 3/3s they were always underrotated and downgraded when she did them under COP. There was no rules in place like then in 2004 when she won Worlds with her 3/3s. You are much better off doing clean 3/2s than downgraded 3/3s so wisely that is what she did.
 
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pangtongfan

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I thought it was an elegant performance. I was mesmerized by how smooth her skating was. Then her Y spiral. That was a first. Then the Ina Bauer. She had a lot of moments in that performance. Skating skill that is to die for, and choreography that is unmatched. Her PCS was too low, actually. By today's standard, she would break 70 on PCS. Ashley Wagner just got 63+ PCS at Skate America.

I agree on that but Miki from the 2007 Worlds would have still beaten it by the vast difference in jump difficulty alone, and everyone on this forum knows I am far from a Miki fan, and I like Shizuka and her skating about twice as much as I do Miki, just speaking the truth.
 

janetfan

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I agree on that but Miki from the 2007 Worlds would have still beaten it by the vast difference in jump difficulty alone, and everyone on this forum knows I am far from a Miki fan, and I like Shizuka and her skating about twice as much as I do Miki, just speaking the truth.

It's an interesting point - possibly right.
But since it is 2006 Torino being discussed - we know how Miki did. That is what matters regarding Torino.

Anybody (even me ;)) can pick a performance from one year and say it would beat a performance from another year.

Before you get hysterical at being challenged - let's remember that what happened before Torino or after Torino simpy doesn't count .

Not then, not now....not ever.

Miki had her chance in Torino and also Vancouver. She might even have a chance in Sochi. But how one skater did in 2008 vs how another skater did in 2005 is basically irrelevant and goes against the whole sporting nature these competitons are supposed to represent.

Just my two cents....
 
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Mar 11, 2011
Btw, is everyone on board that Adelina does not flutz anymore? Because from what I've seen, while judges at SA didn't think so, she has still got that flutz. Am I alone on this?
 

Mrs. P

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Dec 27, 2009
Btw, is everyone on board that Adelina does not flutz anymore? Because from what I've seen, while judges at SA didn't think so, she has still got that flutz. Am I alone on this?

She definitely still has a flutz, though it's less obvious than in the past. It was clear to me, however, from the second row of that arena. Not sure why the judges didn't call it when they called Ashley and Christina's. That probably the one area where she should have lost some points.
 

janetfan

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Btw, is everyone on board that Adelina does not flutz anymore? Because from what I've seen, while judges at SA didn't think so, she has still got that flutz. Am I alone on this?

Reading the board- I think it is at best a mixed review.
I eliminate myself from an opinion simply because I can't tell watching on the internet.

I do know this....Ashley, who gets frequent edge calls did not get one at SA.
Perhaps Adelina got a free ride as part of Ashley's "coronation."

That makes alot of sense if we actually apply logic to the "sporting/pageant" concept we see in figure skating.

ETA: Did Ashley get an edge call at SA??
 

Mrs. P

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Reading the board- I think it is at best a mixed review.
I eliminate myself from an opinion simply because I can't tell watching on the internet.

I do know this....Ashley, who gets frequent edge calls did not get one at SA.
Perhaps Adelina got a free ride as part of Ashley's "coronation."

That makes alot of sense if we actually apply logic to the "sporting/pageant" concept we see in figure skating.

ETA: Did Ashley get an edge call at SA??


Actually Ashley DID get an edge call, so why did you say she didn't?
 

janetfan

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Actually Ashley DID get an edge call, so why did you say she didn't?

I added that I wasn't sure.
Why do you misrepresent my words?

BOP seems sure Adelina flutzed and I can accept that.....
 
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FSGMT

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Sep 10, 2012
She definitely still has a flutz, though it's less obvious than in the past. It was clear to me, however, from the second row of that arena. Not sure why the judges didn't call it when they called Ashley and Christina's. That probably the one area where she should have lost some points.
I agree, especially considering that Christina's edge was a lot better than adelina's, I actually expected her not to receive the "e"...
 
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I am pretty sure Michelle Kwan on her own has won as many sr Intl medals as all the ladies in the entire Russian federation.

Michelle Kwan was 9 times at Worlds Podium. Irina Slutskaya was 6 times - less, but comparable number.

USA newer had all 3 medals of Four Continents. Russia had 3 medals of Euro 4 times - from 1999 to 2002.

USA has 14 gold medals of World Junior Championship from 1976 to now.
USSR and Russia - 10. Less, but comparable.
 
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silverlake22

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Nov 12, 2009
After seeing her live this weekend, I can see why Adelina scores well. She has great speed, good ice coverage and she skates big. I actually like her FS. I think it's a good challenge for her to try something non-balletic and she seemed to have fun out there, which is a good thing.

She is going through a major growth spurt, and my husband noted that she didn't seem quite confident in her body. So the fact she's still winning medals while she's going through this major growing out period is impressive.

I don't see the huge growth spurt part. People keep saying Adelina's gotten so tall now and grown several inches, but look at the podium pictures, she's not a tall girl by any means, Christina Gao is only 5'5" and towers above her, Ashley is 5'3" and appears to be around the same height, maybe a little taller still than Adelina. So if she really is around 5'3" or a little under, she's not tall for a skater, an ideal size really, and has been the same height for around a year or more now. And she has mentioned on her formspring about how she follows a very strict diet and tries to restrain herself from eating junk foods, she is thin, not curvy or womanly in her shape, her body type is not the issue. And the issue is not that she can't do the jumps anymore, her jumps are still huge, she can rotate them when she lands them cleanly, she is simply not consistently landing her jumps right now for whatever reason and she can't expect to win big competitions when she makes so many mistakes. If she skates clean, yes, she is a contender for European and maybe World medals, probably not World or Olympic gold though, and for the past year or she hasn't been able to skate close to clean in most of her competitions.
 
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Mrs. P

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I don't see the huge growth spurt part. People keep saying Adelina's gotten so tall now and grown several inches, but look at the podium pictures, she's not a tall girl by any means, Christina Gao is only 5'5" and towers above her, Ashley is 5'3" and appears to be around the same height, maybe a little taller still than Adelina. So if she really is around 5'3" or a little under, she's not tall for a skater, an ideal size really, and has been the same height for around a year or more now. And the issue is not that she can't do the jumps anymore, her jumps are still huge, she can rotate them when she lands them cleanly, she is simply not consistently landing her jumps right now for whatever reason and she can't expect to win big competitions when she makes so many mistakes. If she skates clean, yes, she is a contender for European and maybe World medals, probably not World or Olympic gold though, and for the past year or she hasn't been able to skate close to clean in most of her competitions.

For me, growth spurt means more than just height. She's definitely filling out as well -- she looks a lot different than she did when she won the 2011 World Junior title.

And such growth/puberty doesn't have to create complete havoc.I think Adelina has done well on physically handling growth, i.e. landing jumps. But there could be a mental component. When you're not used to your body or feel confident about it, your brain may have you do a lot of things that you don't plan.

A little story. When I was outside the hotel bar on Sunday night, I got a chance to get Adelina's autograph, she was quite friendly. But after all the fans got photos and autographs, she walked quickly away with her hoodie over her head. I don't think it's because she didn't want to deal with her fans, but more that she was your typical teenager who didn't want to be seen publicly. Sometimes we forget that these skaters are still teenagers and still dealing with their own issues with their bodies and what not.
 

janetfan

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May 15, 2009
For me, growth spurt means more than just height. She's definitely filling out as well -- she looks a lot different than she did when she won the 2011 World Junior title.

And such growth/puberty doesn't have to create complete havoc.I think Adelina has done well on physically handling growth, i.e. landing jumps. But there could be a mental component. When you're not used to your body or feel confident about it, your brain may have you do a lot of things that you don't plan.

A little story. When I was outside the hotel bar on Sunday night, I got a chance to get Adelina's autograph, she was quite friendly. But after all the fans got photos and autographs, she walked quickly away with her hoodie over her head. I don't think it's because she didn't want to deal with her fans, but more that she was your typical teenager who didn't want to be seen publicly. Sometimes we forget that these skaters are still teenagers and still dealing with their own issues with their bodies and what not.

Thanks for sharing that Mrs. P. - and thanks for your SA reports :)

I can't ever recall a skater who grew the way Mirai did - unless it might be Caroline.

But Adelina has definitely grown and filled out, and no way is her size comparable to how it was only two years ago.

Let's not forget Michelle grew from 5'0 to 5'2 (while also filling out) and Frank said it caused real problems.

Mirai grew 4-5 inches in little more than a year. Then she filled out.
Adelina was smaller than Sasha a year or so ago and now she is closer to Mirai's size.

To hear that some think it doesn't matter or effect such young skaters is hard to believe.
 
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