Judges for 2013 ISU Championships | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Judges for 2013 ISU Championships

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
INHO they don't entirely get away with it. I think gymnastics has the same problem. in part. as figure skating.

However, gymnastics does have sort of a do-or-die moment at the end of the routine -- the dismount. The crowd yells, "Stick it!" She does!! Yay!!! Give that girl a prize!

What the general audience cannot judge is the difficulty of the routine. In that respect, sometimes the audience can't tell who won or lost (or why) until the computer tells them, just like skating.

But even then gymnastics scoring has an advantage. They announce at the beginning, "If performed perfectly, this routine has a difficulty value of 13.5." Then throughout the routine the announcer can say, "Oops, that little bobble will cost her a tenth of a point off the 13.5 mark." If the audience keeps track, it makes perfect sense to them when she ends up with a score of 11.7.

I could not agree more with you. I know less about gymnastics than skating but am able to understand the scores much better than skating these days.

At the Olympics Komova made a mistake on her dismount and her score was still good. We then heard "she had the most difficult routine with the higest point value so her score seems fair."

Even Scott could explain that pretty easily......:)
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I seem to recall Paul Wylie on ABC and Tracy Wilson on NBC doing similiar "explanations" when the CoP first started. When ABC bowwed out entirely on their coverage, then we saw NBC stop educating on the system, too... :scratch:
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I seem to recall Paul Wylie on ABC and Tracy Wilson on NBC doing similiar "explanations" when the CoP first started. When ABC bowwed out entirely on their coverage, then we saw NBC stop educating on the system, too... :scratch:

Are you suggesting that ABC/ESPN simply bowed out - or were there other factors involved?

Is it possible Speedy refused to consider the ratings and ABC/ESPN told him to take a "flying leap"? :laugh:

That of course would contradict the working theory that Cinquanta is a financial genius who saved skating :rofl:
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
After looking over the judging assignments, as usual Ice Dance is the most "engineered" discipline.

JUNIOR WORLDS:
4 former SSRs: BLR, EST, UKR, UZB
3 eastern Europe: CZE, HUN, ISR
3 western Europe: FRA, GER, SUI
2 NA: CAN, USA
1 far East/other: CHN

WORLDS
5 former SSRs: AZE, RUS, UKR, UZB, LTU-which tends to score independently
3 Eastern Europe: FIN, HUN, SVK
3 Western Europe: FRA, GER, GBR
1 NA: USA
1 Far East/Other: AUS

Not all the judges sit on both SD and FD; 9 are selected randomly for each segment.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Are you suggesting that ABC/ESPN simply bowed out - or were there other factors involved?

Is it possible Speedy refused to consider the ratings and ABC/ESPN told him to take a "flying leap"? :laugh:

That of course would contradict the working theory that Cinquanta is a financial genius who saved skating :rofl:

Actually I believe the only reason ABC/ESPN stayed with skating as long as they did was because Doug Wilson was very active in keeping skating visible. Once he retired they saw no need to keep it.
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
because it still is political, just more behind the scenes. they have years to perfect it. (in fact over 100).
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
WORLDS
5 former SSRs: AZE, RUS, UKR, UZB, LTU-which tends to score independently
3 Eastern Europe: FIN, HUN, SVK
3 Western Europe: FRA, GER, GBR
1 NA: USA
1 Far East/Other: AUS

So this favors Davis and White, right? A U.S. judge in the mix but no Canadian.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Maybe golf should start giving partial credits for those long putts that just miss.....they can be so heartbreaking I almost started to cry once: :p
But how could that work - since in golf low scores beat high scores :think:

Voila - the use of GOE would work. In golf -GOE woud be good and +GOE would be bad.
Isn't it about time those clunky shots that wind up in the water or sand get the penalty they deserve?

And received a 1 point deduction for his lime green and salmon plaid pants which clashed with his chartreuse and aubergine spandex shirts with bugle bead trim.

I can just read it now "Mickelson shot a sizzling 66.7 edging out Tiger by .3 which is less than half a stroke."
Mickelson also took advantage of the 10% bonus by scoring two birdies on the back 9. ;)

And received a 1 point deduction for wearing clashing plaid lime green and salmon pants with a chartreuse and aubergine spandex shirt encrusted with bugle beads and cut outs on the back.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
According to V/M fans, GBR and AUS will be in V/M's pocket, so no CAN judge doesn't matter much.

OTOH, things look a tad rosier for Bobrova/Soloviev and/or Ilinyk/Katsalapov.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
According to V/M fans, GBR and AUS will be in V/M's pocket, so no CAN judge doesn't matter much.

OTOH, things look a tad rosier for Bobrova/Soloviev and/or Ilinyk/Katsalapov.

They need the levels. B/S I am joining in the excuse that their levels at finlandia were early competition levels even though their worlds levels always involve a 2 or more than 1 level 2. You could say B/S were at their worlds level in Finlandia!! LOL!! Hopefully their "better" coach can fix THEM. I know he can fix his work and fix pechalat bourzat but who knows if B/S can be fixed. Maybe not even a panel of russia ukraine kazakhstan, belarus, bulgaria can make b/s succeed with level 2's LOIL!!
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
After looking over the judging assignments, as usual Ice Dance is the most "engineered" discipline.

JUNIOR WORLDS:
4 former SSRs: BLR, EST, UKR, UZB
3 eastern Europe: CZE, HUN, ISR
3 western Europe: FRA, GER, SUI
2 NA: CAN, USA
1 far East/other: CHN

WORLDS
5 former SSRs: AZE, RUS, UKR, UZB, LTU-which tends to score independently
3 Eastern Europe: FIN, HUN, SVK
3 Western Europe: FRA, GER, GBR
1 NA: USA
1 Far East/Other: AUS

Not all the judges sit on both SD and FD; 9 are selected randomly for each segment.
You have to consider who the ISU member federations are and how many are in each geographical region. There are only two NA members*, and both are represented on the JW panel, with 50% on the Worlds panel. How many Eastern European and Western European members are there? A lot. Percentage-wise, it looks to me like Europe is shockingly under-represented! Clearly this means people are going to be wuzrobbed.

Finland now counts as Eastern Europe? :scratch:

* Unless you want to count Mexico and the Caribbean members, and even then it's not that many.
 

Précision

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
After looking over the judging assignments, as usual Ice Dance is the most "engineered" discipline.

JUNIOR WORLDS:
4 former SSRs: BLR, EST, UKR, UZB
3 eastern Europe: CZE, HUN, ISR
3 western Europe: FRA, GER, SUI
2 NA: CAN, USA
1 far East/other: CHN

WORLDS
5 former SSRs: AZE, RUS, UKR, UZB, LTU-which tends to score independently
3 Eastern Europe: FIN, HUN, SVK
3 Western Europe: FRA, GER, GBR
1 NA: USA
1 Far East/Other: AUS

Not all the judges sit on both SD and FD; 9 are selected randomly for each segment.

I'm also little puzzled how you find Finland to be part of eastern Europe? And also Israel?
Also, even if Estonia has been a part of the Soviet Union, their relationship with Russia isn't that warm. Estonians like to rebel quite lot.

For me, it's little disturbing, that the Cold War is still so present here, and the independence of the Judges is not so trusted. I know there is lots and lots of politics going on, but I truelly want to believe, that the judges are there to do the best they can. They too seem to love this sport as much as we fans do.

As for technical panels, there really isn't that much room for cultural differences or politics, that could effect to the results or how the panel calls the elements. 8 revolutions in a spin is the same 8 revolutions around the world. There is much more room for different interpretations in judges panel.
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Buttercup, while I agree in principle, I'd argue that if we weighed the number of member nations in Europe vs the 4CC (the divide the ISU has set up with their Championship events) you'd find it in Europe's favour regardless.

Now I'm VERY curious what tech panels we get.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
There are a lot of close calls made by tech panels. The most interesting are negative calls by panel members who coach and choreograph or are involved with federations in a particular country. I.E. Bob Jones coaches Janie Skater, sister of Sally Skater.

Sally Skater tends to take off on a flat for her lutz, often flutzing. Bob Jones never notices Sally's flutz. Never. Sometimes his fellow panel member will notice it, and the head of the panel will say, "Yes it's a flutz." And Bob will say, "O, yes it was." But if his fellow panel member does not catch the flutz, then Sally gets a freebie non edge call.

The same happens in other close calls in other disciplines.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Buttercup, while I agree in principle, I'd argue that if we weighed the number of member nations in Europe vs the 4CC (the divide the ISU has set up with their Championship events) you'd find it in Europe's favour regardless.
What, the judging assignments? There really are a lot of European Feds - take a look at the list of member federations on the ISU website.

BTW, chuckm divided it into western Europe, eastern Europe (now including Finland and Israel) and former SSRs. I'd just like to point out that one of those, Uzbekistan, is an Asian country, and their skaters compete at 4CC. Though East/Southeast Asian federations may be underrepresented compared to both Europe and North America; I'd have to look at judging panels for the other disciplines to make a more informed comment on that subject.

Now I'm VERY curious what tech panels we get.
Now that is the truly important question.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
What, the judging assignments? There really are a lot of European Feds - take a look at the list of member federations on the ISU website.

BTW, chuckm divided it into western Europe, eastern Europe (now including Finland and Israel) and former SSRs. I'd just like to point out that one of those, Uzbekistan, is an Asian country, and their skaters compete at 4CC. Though East/Southeast Asian federations may be underrepresented compared to both Europe and North America; I'd have to look at judging panels for the other disciplines to make a more informed comment on that subject.

I did. A 2 to 1 ratio of Europe to 4CC.
 
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