2012 Skate America Men's Short Program | Page 8 | Golden Skate

2012 Skate America Men's Short Program

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
He was a little bit overscored, because Hanyu's coach is Orser. Don't you think? But I don't think the overscoring would harm Yuzu. People love him, they like what he is doing, thus adore his points. Unlike Chan. I believe, Kozuka's problem is the zero expressivity.



Even if he had let's say zero expresivity, a skater should not be punished across the board for that is the SS, CH and other marks.
Those are unfair marks when compared with how much love Yuzuru got.
I agree that program was as good as it gets, but 10 points difference?
Common, you got to be kidding me.
 

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Hanyu: My goodness he is talented! I see a lot of improvement in his skating. His jumps are exquisite. I believe that this will be a Golden year for him leading up to the big game.

Kozuka: I thought he was just fabulous. Loved everything about this program. Low balled on PC's in my opinion.

Jeremy: I really liked this program. A few glitches to be worked out, but very nice.

Machida: I was impressed. I enjoyed his performance very much.
 

lakeside

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Yuzru – I actually expected him to bomb, well, I still expect him to bomb his LP tonight. ;) That said, I’m rather amazed by his artistry. He pulls classical music, powerful OST, and now sexy blues well! Wow. He can skate to such diverse styles at such a young age. Good for him.

Jeremy – I also think the program does not suit him well, but for me, anything from Jeremy is a treat. I like that he’s trying to do the quad out of new entrance. Looking forward to watching his LP tonight. That hair was awful though, wish he’ll change it.

Kozuka – he tried to be a Takahashi clone last season with Inner Urge program but failed. He saw the audience and the judges liked Yuzru’s powerful OST program, so this season he’s trying to be a Yuzru clone skating to powerful OST… but he showed no expressions and no connection to the powerful music. Of course the judges would not like this. The whole time he was skating I kept wishing Yuzru would skate to Exodus instead of him, just like last season I kept wishing Takahashi would skate to Inner Urge.

2. Takahiko KOZUKA (JPN) - 85.32
Great skater, forgettable program. And that quad, in addition to looking bad, did not come out of steps. The judges need to start cracking down on this - guys, if you want an SP quad, do it in combo or do the steps. Fab spread eagle, does any active skater (bar Jonathan Cassar) do it better?
ITA. Kozuka was gifted on TES. In SP, no steps preceding the solo jump = -3 GOE deduction. Only one judge gave him -3 GOE though. What were the rest of the judges smoking? :disapp: This is so unfair for other skaters like Jeremy who tried to do the 4t out of steps and fell. I’m certain that if Kozuka did his quad out of steps, he’d fall too.
 

Kalina

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
About Hanyu: last season people were saying that he was being underscored in PCS especially in the short, where he was getting around 39+. Now his skating skills are way better than they were before, he's more polished, he's world bronze medalist (so, his reputation grows) and he had an outstanding skate, probably the cleanest SP he's ever done: he obviously gets higher components marks. Now, how much higher do I think they should be? Well he was getting high 7s and 8s in skating skills last year, so considering his improvement I'd say a 8.5 isn't absurd at all, and his transitions are great. Performance was almost perfect. Choreography and interpretation -- rounded up to the other PCS, but that happens with just about everybody. So, is 43 too high? By a point, maybe. But what really made the difference in this score is the change in the rules, and the fact that he had a 3A and the combo in the second part of the program. And that all of his jumps were clean as a whistle and very impressive, with transitions in and out of them, same with his spins. So, huge technical score, and huge score overall.

Is this program better than Daisuke's record-breaking program last year? Performance wise, no. Technically, they're close. But this two programs were judged under different rules, so let's talk, as a Daisuke fan, you shouldn't worry too much. If Daisuke skates clean and makes good use of the rules with two jumps in the second half, he's sure to beat the record again, and maybe reach 100. Kozuka being underscored in the PCS department on the other hand, is true and a sad fact.

What I find funny (and not surprising in the least, I was waiting for this actually) is that for some of 'his' fans Hanyu was good enough as soon as he was, you know, young, cute, crazy talented but still lower ranked than their real favourites (Daisuke, Kozuka). They raved, saying that he was the future of japanese men's figure skating. Now he's still young, but he dares to change his coach voluntarily and choose a foreign one, he dares to keep getting better and to have a smartly choreographed program and break Daisuke's record even though the fact that he did doesn't mean much, and he becomes rubbish, non-expressive, ridiculous. Well, did you think he was going to be standing still, holding his Pooh bear waiting until Daisuke and Kozuka both retire? Which doesn't mean that he's now better than they are, it just means that he's better than he was last year and thankfully, it shows in his scores. Kozuka isn't as lucky, but I don't see why someone else besides the judges should be blamed for this.
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Great skater, forgettable program. And that quad, in addition to looking bad, did not come out of steps. The judges need to start cracking down on this - guys, if you want an SP quad, do it in combo or do the steps. Fab spread eagle, does any active skater (bar Jonathan Cassar) do it better?
ITA. Kozuka was gifted on TES. In SP, no steps preceding the solo jump = -3 GOE deduction. Only one judge gave him -3 GOE though. What were the rest of the judges smoking? :disapp: This is so unfair for other skaters like Jeremy who tried to do the 4t out of steps and fell. I’m certain that if Kozuka did his quad out of steps, he’d fall too.
They're smoking it at every event; most of the men doing solo quads in the SP are not doing them out of steps. And the second half bonus this year is going to make the problem worse, because the skaters will prefer to do a 3-3 in the second half of the SP and get the bonus rather than tack a 3T at the end of their quad. Yay for old-fashioned people like Joubert, who I guarantee will go for a quad combo, bonuses be damned. I also guarantee that if he attempts two quads in the SP, the solo one will have a setup.

No, I don't get it. They arrested Sretenskij for being "sexy" to a minor. But Yuzu doing a sexy porn teen is just fine.
:confused: are you sure you know what porn is? And not just "I know it when I see it"?
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Yeah, and the attempt to equate what Hanyu is doing to what Sretenski was alleged to have done is despicable.
That, too. I posted first and Googled later - at first I thought it was a mangled version of Sandusky. Which would have been repulsive as well.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
:confused: are you sure you know what porn is?
Surely not. I am barely out of dipers. On a serious note, I have no idea what you know by the term "porn". In its traditional sense porn stands for the easy portrayal of sexual subject matter, precisely what Hanyu team have been doing with his image since the moment he moved to Canada. I find it hypocritical to approve a teen as a sexual object in one field and find it as a criminally wrong in another.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
But this two programs were judged under different rules, so let's talk, as a Daisuke fan, you shouldn't worry too much.
We all know that. The rules are changing constantly, so the score in fs is not like WR in track and fields. That's why Plu at Moscow Worlds sitting in C sector gave the gesture "doesn't matter" to his wife when Chan's records score showed up. Because it is indeed doesn't matter in term of ISU moody reality. So, the way that you brought Dai here looks rather petty. Then you should have brought Plu as well since let's talk is a diehard-fan of both. In my post I was talking only about SA and this particular progs of two skaters- Kozu and Hanyu. Carry on. :popcorn:
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Even if he had let's say zero expresivity, a skater should not be punished across the board for that is the SS, CH and other marks.
Those are unfair marks when compared with how much love Yuzuru got.
I agree that program was as good as it gets, but 10 points difference?
Common, you got to be kidding me.

No, i agree with you!!!! I also think that the 10 points are too big difference. I think Kozuka was underscored, i just said he has zero expressivity. And if you remember Kozuka was underscored in whole last season.


And I like Dai, Yuzu and Kozuka, and i also don't think that Yuzu's program was sexy. He can 't be sexy today.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
By the way, Kozuka's SP score, as low as I think it is, is a best ever for him as well, his previous best was 84.20 back in Turin 2010. But he managed that mainly also because he placed the 3A and the combo in the second half of the ogram, as Yuzuru did.
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Kalina, thanks for your post, I agree with everything you said. Sometimes some figure skating fans just seem like such drama-loving chatterboxes - like one good performance means you're as good as world champion, one bad one and you're pretty much done. World records don't really mean much, every event is scored differently. If I remember correctly, Daisukes 94-points record performance was said to not deserve so many points by many people too (and if I'm honest, I had to agree). Who knows if that new record will even survive this season, with the new rule, Takahashi and Kozuka in seemingly good form or Patrick with a probably stunning programm (it was as an Ex no doubt, and his LP is beautiful).
And it was a 90+ performance even without the new bonus, so I think it's alright. A 41 in PCS would have been enough either, but I don't care that much. His TES is monstrous, and completly deservedly so. He definitly deserves to be in the lead, maybe 10 points is a little too much - but while Taka was underscored in PCS (I just hope that's his last season being pretty bad playing an influence and the jugdes will get it right if Taka continous to skate that good), there's the missing -3 for the 4T.

All that said, my favorite performance was Tatsukis - that programm's fun, and he's so entertaining to watch! :)
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Kalina, thanks for your post, I agree with everything you said. Sometimes some figure skating fans just seem like such drama-loving chatterboxes - like one good performance means you're as good as world champion, one bad one and you're pretty much done. World records don't really mean much, every event is scored differently. If I remember correctly, Daisukes 94-points record performance was said to not deserve so many points by many people too (and if I'm honest, I had to agree).
In fact Kalina was the one who brought Dai 94-points here. A "drama-loving chatterbox" as you put it. Never mind. :)
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
All that said, my favorite performance was Tatsukis - that programm's fun, and he's so entertaining to watch! :)


I did like it too, I kept feeling sorry or him, because he has to skate in Japan, therefore he has no sniff to get on the world team for the major events.
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
let's talk said:
In fact Kalina was the one who brought Dai 94-points here. A "drama-loving chatterbox" as you put it. Never mind.

But who mentioned Dai's program till now or even first isn't the point. And if she wouldn't have mentioned it at all, I would have still wrote the same - because how people are argueing that Yuzurus score is too high reminded me pretty much of some reactions at WTT. I don't see a problem with comparing Yuzurus performance to Dai's or anything. What I meant with "drama-loving chatterboxes" is how people just love to overreact and jugde to fast. But that's a very general thing... look at how the russian girls are hyped, talked down, hyped again... let alone what you can read about Adelina sometimes is worthy to grind your teeth.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Here's my report from the competition late last night just in case you missed it:
Hey everybody I just returned my hotel room after checking out the men's and pairs sp live tonight. Some thoughts.

For me the three Japanese men really brought it tonight. Machida was charismatic and skated a solid program despite not having a quad. He did a beautiful triple axel right in front of my section. And he did a great job expressing himself to the music. I think he took some tips from the Daisuke playbook!

I loved Taka's program. It had that quiet elegance perfect for his fluid performance. And I was so happy he hit all the elements especially after all the reports of bad practices. It was such a delight to see his soft knees in person. TV does not do that quality justice.

And Hanyu. Let me tell you, it was amazing to see it live. From the warmup you could see it in his eyes he was ready to bring it. He had a really high quality program. He hit all the jumps perfectly with beautiful transitions and at amazing speed. He got a standing o when he was done.

Do I think he was overscored? Maybe by a few points, but, he really presented a challenging program and I don't think he could have done it any better. I remember liking it when I saw the Finlandia video, but I loved it after seeing it live and seeing the intensity and energy Yuzuru put into the program.

Brian Orser ended up in the table next to me at the hotel bar so we end up striking a conversation. He was not surprised at Yuzuru's performance. He talked about how both sp and fs are very challenging for Hanyu, and that he has been working with Hanyu to do more run thoughs. He said that when he first met with Hanyu, he learned that he did not skate as much daily as someone wanting to be top caliblier competition should. But he pointed out that Yuzuru has been a gentleman, respectful and willing to learn. I think we all saw the fruit of that tonight.

He was surprised by the score. He said based on his performance tonight compared to Finlandia, he expected a score more in the high 80's.

On a lighter note, the topic of the Pooh tissue box came up and he said, "When he was not my student I used to make fun of that. Now I have to hold it." He said this in a good natured way. We all laughed. :laugh:

Bad night for both the Czechs. I liked Verner's program, despite the mistakes, there were things to appreciate. Brenzia's program did not do much for me, especially since. He made those mistakes despite not having a lot of transitions. His PCS was way too high for what he actually did.

Mensnov program was decent considering that I was expecting to be disappointed by a Piña clone. His 4T-3T combo was solid. Majorov was Ok - nothing really stood out.

I enjoyed Jeremy's program, he did a good job performing it! But his tech was not there; I've definitely seen him do a 3A much better. And he's had issues getting spins levels in the past, so the low TES did not surprise me. Armin had a respectable performance. I think he was hurt by being in the first group and a last minute replacement -- he wasn't even in the event program! I think he should have been ahead of Brenzina.

Anyway, it was a real treat to be there!

As for Taka vs Yuzuru: Yuzuru deserves the lead. I LOVED both programs, Yuzuru jumps were huge, clean and came out of some awesome transitions Taka did the jumps, but wasn't whistle clean on all of them, so the TES gap is not surprising and deserved. As for PCS, I agree Taka was underscored. But Hanyu definitely had this energy. I don't know how to explain it, but it just oozed out of him. He came ready to perform. He got a standing O the moment he was done. I'm sure that contributed to the higher score.

So I think perhaps I'd have Yuzuru winning in PCS by a point instead of nearly four -so a 92 vs. 88 with the lead mostly in TES.
 
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emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Thanks to everyone for discussion of the SPs - and especially those who saw it live like Mrs. P and Doris! So cool!

ETA oh and thanks for all the videos too!!!! I could watch Hanyu's triple axel forever - wow, all the jumps were cool but that triple axel was :love::points::rock:
 
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