Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure?

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Yes, the transition into the second 3Lz is a bauer and she doesn't have as many transitions that generate speed into the bauer in the LP as she does in the SP (if you look at all her steps after the 3F+3T in the short, they all are designed to build speed into the bauer). If she does a 2A+3T along with the 3Lz+3T then she can't do the second 3F (which even with an edge call is worth more than a second 3T). The 3F+1Lo+3S is really awesome and she rarely misses it (landed it in Detroit, SLC, and SC). She screwed it up in Russia because she didn't check hard enough coming out of the F and the left shoulder released a little which meant the 1/2 loop wasn't going to happen. I know they are working on the flip entry to get it off an outside edge as well. I am sure Scott B will smooth over the less than stellar spots and help fix the 3Lo and second 3Lz. I doubt you will see Gracie leave Alex and Scott. She is grounded by being with her family.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I think a 2a-3t in the second half of the program with +GOE would get more points than a 3f-1/2lo-3s in the first half of the program with neutral or -GOE for the lip, so I agree that might be a good strategy. Plus then Gracie would have 2 combos in the 2nd half of her program, and put the 3-jump combo there too (do 2a-2t-2lo or 3s-2t-2lo). As long as she's doing 7 triples, repeating the 3t instead of the 3f wouldn't make much if any difference in points, especially now that she's consistently getting edge calls on the flip, it would be different if her 3lo were more consistent and she wanted to repeat that but that is not the case.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
The flip is being fixed. It is actually fixed in practice and was noticeably better at CoR. Also, I think the idea is that 2 totally different CLEAN 3+3 combinations is more of a wow factor than a 3Lz+3T and a 2A+3T.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The flip is being fixed. It is actually fixed in practice and was noticeably better at CoR. Also, I think the idea is that 2 totally different CLEAN 3+3 combinations is more of a wow factor than a 3Lz+3T and a 2A+3T.

I hope at some point the ISU sits down and figures out a way to reward more difficult 3-3 combinations. The base value of a 3Z-3T plus a solo 2A should not be equal to a 2A-3T plus a solo 3Z. It really is a wow factor and needs to be rewarded appropriately.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
The flip is being fixed. It is actually fixed in practice and was noticeably better at CoR. Also, I think the idea is that 2 totally different CLEAN 3+3 combinations is more of a wow factor than a 3Lz+3T and a 2A+3T.

As I said in the COR threads, based on the GOE scoring from judges, the (e), to me seems to be more of what was the (!) a few years ago -- i.e. a borderline, not severe edge. A severe (e) garners automatic -2 to -3 in GOE while a borderline garners -1 to -2. At COR, she got zero GOE in her SP and just .50 in the FS for one of the flips, IIRC.

So I hope by nationals, she will have it taken care of.
 

Selene

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Does anyone else think that Christina Gao should go to Worlds instead of Gracie? Christina has been very consistent this season and was arguably underscored at Nationals. Gracie has higher scoring potential than Christina, but at least you can count on Christina to deliver a solid, respectable performance. Gracie has delivered mostly messy, error-filled performances this season (one good short program and one good long program all season is not a great track record) because she is not a competitor. She has shown that she is mentally weak and cannot deliver under pressure. She shouldn’t be competing at Worlds while she is still intimidated by the situation. She should be competing at Senior B’s and other small competitions until she learns to control her nerves & perform in front of an audience.

Gracie bombing at 4CCs is no big deal. But her bombing at Worlds (which is likely, considering she can’t get herself together mentally at lower profile events) would cost another skater a chance to skate at the Olympics.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Gao isn't going to help get that 3rd spot back either. To say because Gracie hasn't had the year everyone expected that she's not a competitor is ridiculous. The problem is way to many people expected her to dominate not realizing that she's a first year Senior who's inexperienced and who needs to develop at her own pace and not at the pace other people think. Next year she will know what to expect and she will either become a real force or just another skater who was way over-hyped by the masses and never lived up to her potential.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Gao isn't going to help get that 3rd spot back either. To say because Gracie hasn't had the year everyone expected that she's not a competitor is ridiculous. The problem is way to many people expected her to dominate not realizing that she's a first year Senior who's inexperienced and who needs to develop at her own pace and not at the pace other people think. Next year she will know what to expect and she will either become a real force or just another skater who was way over-hyped by the masses and never lived up to her potential.

Look of course Gold is a new skater and I think it could take her more than a year to get her feet wet. And I do think Gao could have helped with the spot. You keep on saying US ladies aren't good enough for three spots, but all I have to say is we could have easily gotten 3 spots if the right team was selected-i.e our second skater was able to land at least one triple... I like Czisny a lot as a skater but she was clearly in bad shape going into the worlds. The same thing could be said for Flatt the year before....The problem is our selection procedure.

I think Gold could very well be a world champion some day but I'm not sure her over Gao at Worlds right now is wise. And I think sending a skater questionably before they are ready could really do bad things to their confidence....
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Just who in the last few years could have gotten that 3rd spot back? We had our best chance in 2010 with Mira who was on a roll and Rachael who was know at the time as "Reliable" Rachael. Well we know what happened Rachael struggled in the LP and Mira basically choked. Mirai can't be counted on when the pressure is on and now she's having a hard time even rotating her jumps.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Just who in the last few years could have gotten that 3rd spot back? We had our best chance in 2010 with Mira who was on a roll and Rachael who was know at the time as "Reliable" Rachael. Well we know what happened Rachael struggled in the LP and Mira basically choked. Mirai can't be counted on when the pressure is on and now she's having a hard time even rotating her jumps.

All we needed was a 9th place finish at last years worlds and that third spot was ours. Ksensia was 9th with a score of around 149.40 . Both Agnes (with not even a particular great skate) and Zhang were WELL of clear of that mark at Four Continents.

Similarly all we needed was an 8th place finish at worlds the year earlier that one with a mark of a 167 plus would have been harder.

In both cases a US citizen was there.

I won't get into 2009 worlds where yes I think Zhang and Flatt could have done it.

The problem is the US selection procedures. How ridiculous how crazy is it to insist that at the very least you MONITOR your skaters before worlds. Worlds is three months away and injuries things can happen. So how hard would it be to insist legally that people are named provisionally but have to show a form of readiness right before Worlds.

Rachael Flatt was badly injured and skating badly, if she had been made to show readiness do you think she'd have remained on the team? Alissa showed us right before Worlds and in practice that she could no longer land a single triple jump? Do you think its ridiculous to suggest maybe she didn't belong on said team anymore?

It was that selection procedure that has doomed us. Any other federation would have monitored their skaters and told them to stay home if they can no longer land a freaking triple jump.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I agree if the U.S sent the right teams to Worlds they would have gotten 3 spots back the following years:

2009- Flatt and Zhang
2011- Czisny and Nagasu
2012- Wagner and Zawadzki or Zhang

In all 3 cases the situation could have been remedied had the judges at Nationals simply scored properly. Czisny should have fallen down to 3rd place after landing only 3 triples in her LP in 2009. Flatt made similar mistakes to Nagasu at Nationals 2011 and was clearly on the way down and a weaker skater at that point, Nagasu should have been placed 2nd at Nationals. Czisny should have been beaten by both Zawadzki and Zhang in 2012.

Furthermore even after the poor judging at Nationals all those years I agree the skaters should have been monitored to prove their readiness right before Worlds and Flatt in 2011 and Czisny in 2012 undoubtably would have been pulled out of their already undeserved spots on the World team those 2 years in that case, as both were injured and clearly unable to compete at Worlds.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Yes, it was annoying how it all transpired but the past is the past, and what's done is done. The only thing is now to focus on the present, and that is the US sending Ashley Wagner and Gracie Gold to 2013 Worlds. We can only go by what they've put down so far, and based on the evidence there is little reason for US fans to be hopeful. Even if Wagner gets over her slump, there's still Gold struggling to hold her nerves together in the FS. If Gold does get her head together, there's still Wagner who has been shaky in recent events. You get the drift...

And BTW, there is NO guarantee at all that Zawadzki would have been able to manage top 9 at worlds last year. She has never been to worlds, and she has enough difficulty with consistency at smaller events...
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Yes, it was annoying how it all transpired but the past is the past, and what's done is done. The only thing is now to focus on the present, and that is the US sending Ashley Wagner and Gracie Gold to 2013 Worlds. We can only go by what they've put down so far, and based on the evidence there is little reason for US fans to be hopeful. Even if Wagner gets over her slump, there's still Gold struggling to hold her nerves together in the FS. If Gold does get her head together, there's still Wagner who has been shaky in recent events. You get the drift...

And BTW, there is NO guarantee at all that Zawadzki would have been able to manage top 9 at worlds last year. She has never been to worlds, and she has enough difficulty with consistency at smaller events...

Well Agnes's placements at Nationals have been questionable and are pure exhibit of nationals at work. However all I have to say is did you see Ksensia's free skate that year... It really wouldn't have taken much.....

Look I DO get why the Us judges like Agnes she has a lot of potential, high big jumps etc. And I think she could be a top top lady.. However, she's yet to really deliver her, so right now they are scoring her on potential rather than what she'd really get at the international level... Her PCS were way higher at this year's nationals than what she gets internationally?

And the question again is why, giving she's not shown the ability to actual deliver at the top competitions. I can understand why Wagner was given the benefit of the doubt she's got a track record. But Agnes....?

Now if Agnes were to skate well I'd give her huge scores. But why hold her up when she doesn't and why hold Gold up in the short as well. That's where I call unfairness to someone like Gao who has been consistently delivering all season long but not getting any where near this gifts.

Or Hicks who yes has some work to do (so does Gracie) but unlike both Gracie and Agnes showed she could actual deliver two solid programs.
 
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Selene

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Gao isn't going to help get that 3rd spot back either. To say because Gracie hasn't had the year everyone expected that she's not a competitor is ridiculous. The problem is way to many people expected her to dominate not realizing that she's a first year Senior who's inexperienced and who needs to develop at her own pace and not at the pace other people think. Next year she will know what to expect and she will either become a real force or just another skater who was way over-hyped by the masses and never lived up to her potential.

Gracie is not a good competitor. Her problem is that she cannot handle her nerves. The difference between how she skates during practices and how she skates during competitions is shocking. Even the British Eurosport announcer, who runs the rink she trains at, stated that he had never seen her skate as badly as she did at 4CCs and the fact that she was overcome by nerves was written all over her face. She has very little high-level competitive experience, and it's obvious by her poor performances that she's not ready to compete at that level. She should be entering Senior B competitions for the experience and using those events to learn how to compete.

I think Gracie should admit to herself that she is not ready to compete at the world championships. She needs to find a sports psychologist and do a lot of work on her mental state at competitions. The US cannot afford to send a mentally weak skater to Worlds the season before the Olympics - not with Olympic berths on the line. Christina Gao is a good competitor and has been very consistent all season. She should be given the opportunity to go to Worlds over Gracie. She is much more likely to deliver a respectable performance . Gracie will probably get to Worlds, see she's in a warm up group with a skater like Kim Yuna, and lose focus from being intimidated by the whole experience.
 
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bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Gracie is not a good competitor. Her problem is that she cannot handle her nerves. The difference between how she skates during practices and how she skates during competitions is shocking. Even the British Eurosport announcer, who runs the rink she trains at, stated that he had never seen her skate as badly as she did at 4CCs and the fact that she was overcome by nerves was written all over her face. She has very little high-level competitive experience, and it's obvious by her poor performances that she's not ready to compete at that level. She should be entering Senior B competitions for the experience and using those events to learn how to compete.

I think Gracie should admit to herself that she is not ready to compete at the world championships. She needs to find a sports psychologist and do a lot of work on her mental state at competitions. The US cannot afford to send a mentally weak skater to Worlds the season before the Olympics - not with Olympic berths on the line. Christina Gao is a good competitor and has been very consistent all season. She should be given the opportunity to go to Worlds over Gracie. She is much more likely to deliver a respectable performance than Gracie. Gracie will probably get to Worlds, see she's in a warm up group with a skater like Kim Yuna, and lose all focus from being intimidated by the whole experience.

Aww you don't know that maybe Gracie will skate really well..
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
An aside, but it's funny that this is the same Gold many people were campaigning for to replace Czisny at worlds. :laugh:

But in a way I feel for her, because if she doesn't deliver at worlds and we stay with 2 Oly spots, the vultures will be relentless and unforgiving...
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Wow US ladies need to be tough skinned. The moment they don't perform... so many snow balls. 2nd time they don't perform... rocket launchers. 3rd time... *shudders* :slink:

Threads like these don't help her with pressures. She is really talented, just support her. She did it at US nationals, she can do it again!
 

b-man

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
An aside, but it's funny that this is the same Gold many people were campaigning for to replace Czisny at worlds. :laugh:

But in a way I feel for her, because if she doesn't deliver at worlds and we stay with 2 Oly spots, the vultures will be relentless and unforgiving...
You are right R.D., I had forgotten about the campaign to replace Czisny with Gold last year. But I do remember that Gold was promoted to the World Team trophy last year ahead of some other high placing seniors, apparently to get her experience for competitions such as 4CC this year. It didn't work, at least for 4CC.
 

crazydreamer

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
If memory serves, Christina doesn't do particularly well under pressure either. None of the US skaters do. I really don't think it matters who they send this year. Christina hasn't had the weight of expectations on her since the GPF, which she bombed. The risks are about equal. At least with Gracie, the potential upside is much brighter.
 
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