Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure? | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure?

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Gracie is not a good competitor. Her problem is that she cannot handle her nerves. The difference between how she skates during practices and how she skates during competitions is shocking. Even the British Eurosport announcer, who runs the rink she trains at, stated that he had never seen her skate as badly as she did at 4CCs and the fact that she was overcome by nerves was written all over her face. She has very little high-level competitive experience, and it's obvious by her poor performances that she's not ready to compete at that level. She should be entering Senior B competitions for the experience and using those events to learn how to compete.

I think Gracie should admit to herself that she is not ready to compete at the world championships. She needs to find a sports psychologist and do a lot of work on her mental state at competitions. The US cannot afford to send a mentally weak skater to Worlds the season before the Olympics - not with Olympic berths on the line. Christina Gao is a good competitor and has been very consistent all season. She should be given the opportunity to go to Worlds over Gracie. She is much more likely to deliver a respectable performance . Gracie will probably get to Worlds, see she's in a warm up group with a skater like Kim Yuna, and lose focus from being intimidated by the whole experience.

I said this on a different thread, but Christina Gao hasn't shown much consistency until this season, and her international PCS won't come anywhere close to what the US needs to regain its three spots. It would be different if she could jump like Gracie or one of the Russian girls, but her technical content is nothing special, either. Her programs don't draw the eye--they're lovely and expressive, and she does a good job of interpretation, but next to skaters like Yuna and Mao, who would give her a second glance? At least Gracie can execute the TES needed to raise herself into the Top 10.

Gracie is working with a sports psychologist--she has been ever since Skate Canada, which is how she pulled herself together in time for the Rostelecom Cup. Neither she nor Ashley have skated their best at their last few competitions, but IMO, the US can't find a better pairing at the moment. The consensus is that Ashley and Gracie can end up with a total of 13th place. With just one season of decent results after several years as a senior, no one knows if Christina--even clean--is capable of finishing in the Top 10, and Ashley's no lock for Top 3. We came close to regaining 3 spots last year, since Ashley finished very high, but the Czisny disaster erased those hopes.

And the fact of the matter is that, if Christina had wanted to compete at Worlds, she needed to beat Gracie at US Nats. She didn't, and that's why Ashley and Gracie are the Worlds team.

EDIT: I agree with flutzy--in the event that the US fails to get three spots back, Christina Gao probably would not have made a significant difference.
 
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Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
To paraphrase Elizabeth Bennett, Gracie Gold deserves 'neither such praise nor such censure'.

She is what she is, a hugely talented skater who nevertheless displays, still, some of the classic weaknesses of youth: inconsistency, a coltish skittishness, and the tendency to be affected by the big moment. Which merely echoes my mildly cautionary attitude toward Kaetlyn Osmond.

Given the intimidating performances by the veteran Big Three (Yuna, Mao, Carolina) at the tail-end of this season, and while probability is not the same thing as certainty, I am of the view that the time of the Young Turks is not yet now.

The implication for the thread topic? (that is: can Gracie handle the pressure?)

Since I'm in a paraphrasing mood, I'll channel Zhou Enlai when asked about the implications of the French Revolution: it's too early to say. ;)

(And this reply was almost two hundred years after the event. We need to respect Zhou's magnificent aplomb and realize that not-quite-one-full-senior season is insufficient to either beatify or hang a young skater).
 

flutzy13

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
If memory serves, Christina doesn't do particularly well under pressure either. None of the US skaters do. I really don't think it matters who they send this year. Christina hasn't had the weight of expectations on her since the GPF, which she bombed. The risks are about equal. At least with Gracie, the potential upside is much brighter.

I agree with this. Gao had a downright bad short at TEB, botched a spin in her SP at nationals and 2 lackluster performances at the GPF where she was 6th and finished 19 points behind Tuk who was 5th. She is hardly the picture of consistency who will assure us 3 spots. That said, she absolutely deserved the bronze over Agnes at Nationals when she skated her LP to the best of her ability. Further, she's had several mediocre seasons on the senior circuit and failed to ever get beyond 5th at nationals. Gracie also had an inconsistent nationals but made a true splash and got the attention of more casual fans. I think Gracie fairly beat her for the silver at nationals even if her score was padded a bit and I have no problem with Gracie on the world team. I hope we get 3 spots back but if we don't I won't assume Christina would have been the difference.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
All we needed was a 9th place finish at last years worlds and that third spot was ours. Ksensia was 9th with a score of around 149.40 . Both Agnes (with not even a particular great skate) and Zhang were WELL of clear of that mark at Four Continents.

Similarly all we needed was an 8th place finish at worlds the year earlier that one with a mark of a 167 plus would have been harder.

In both cases a US citizen was there.

I won't get into 2009 worlds where yes I think Zhang and Flatt could have done it.

The problem is the US selection procedures. How ridiculous how crazy is it to insist that at the very least you MONITOR your skaters before worlds. Worlds is three months away and injuries things can happen. So how hard would it be to insist legally that people are named provisionally but have to show a form of readiness right before Worlds.

Rachael Flatt was badly injured and skating badly, if she had been made to show readiness do you think she'd have remained on the team? Alissa showed us right before Worlds and in practice that she could no longer land a single triple jump? Do you think its ridiculous to suggest maybe she didn't belong on said team anymore?

It was that selection procedure that has doomed us. Any other federation would have monitored their skaters and told them to stay home if they can no longer land a freaking triple jump.

ITA. I read somewhere else on this forum that, during Alissa's Worlds practice, Ashley was watching in disbelief/exasperation. If one of the other skaters can tell that something is wrong, I have no idea how it slipped by the national governing body of the sport.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I hope we get 3 spots back but if we don't I won't assume Christina would have been the difference.

Basically sums it up for me...

ITA. I read somewhere else on this forum that, during Alissa's Worlds practice, Ashley was watching in disbelief/exasperation. If one of the other skaters can tell that something is wrong, I have no idea how it slipped by the national governing body of the sport.

Really? Is there a video (or official article) confirming this? Because when Wagner was asked about that very situation she said she was focusing on herself - saw Czisny crying and assumed they were tears of joy...
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Really? Is there a video (or official article) confirming this? Because when Wagner was asked about that very situation she said she was focusing on herself - saw Czisny crying and assumed they were tears of joy...

I was wondering the same thing. I haven't found one--I can't remember where on the forum I read this, but I'm sure you could find the post if you looked hard enough. But, knowing how badly Czisny was injured, I wouldn't be surprised...
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think I may have seen the post, too (now that I think about it) but still, no confirmation in the form of a video or article.

Still, I guess in any case I can't blame her if she felt a bit frustrated that her teammate wasn't going to get it done even if she did. I think the vast majority of US fans shared that frustration (and saw it coming from a mile away).

I just hope Wagner and/or Gold (especially Gold!) don't get too hung up over this "3 spots" thing. Last thing you want to do is think too much and put too much pressure on yourself. They can't control how the other does, but only on what THEY do.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
I agree with this. Gao had a downright bad short at TEB, botched a spin in her SP at nationals and 2 lackluster performances at the GPF where she was 6th and finished 19 points behind Tuk who was 5th. She is hardly the picture of consistency who will assure us 3 spots. That said, she absolutely deserved the bronze over Agnes at Nationals when she skated her LP to the best of her ability. Further, she's had several mediocre seasons on the senior circuit and failed to ever get beyond 5th at nationals. Gracie also had an inconsistent nationals but made a true splash and got the attention of more casual fans. I think Gracie fairly beat her for the silver at nationals even if her score was padded a bit and I have no problem with Gracie on the world team. I hope we get 3 spots back but if we don't I won't assume Christina would have been the difference.

At the GPF, Gao's TES was about the same as they were here. It was her PCS that were much lower than what she got earlier. But her PCS shot up at Four Continents. Gao has landed 5 triples in the free just about every competition. She also fell attempting a 3flip/3toe at GPF.

I don't necessarily find Gao to be the most thrilling evah. But she has consistently landed a heck of a lot of triples every time. And in terms of Gracie, Gracie doesn't have exactly a ton of international experience herself. Gao HAS out performed her internationally this year.

At least Gracie can execute the TES needed to raise herself into the Top 10.

Look Gracie is obviously great at those 3/3's in practice and has landed them quite a bit. But they are hardly consistent. I wouldn't be surprised if I did the math and Gao has actually landed more 3/3s this season than Gracie. Not to mention Gao's done the 3flip/3toe internationally a couple of times too.

Now I DO think Gracie has better jumps more likely to do the 3/3s. But Gracie's 3/3s aren't exactly Yu-na consistent.
 
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jjane45

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Really? Is there a video (or official article) confirming this? Because when Wagner was asked about that very situation she said she was focusing on herself - saw Czisny crying and assumed they were tears of joy...

If it was true (I had no reason to doubt it), what would you expect Ashley to say?
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Look Gracie is obviously great at those 3/3's in practice and has landed them quite a bit. But they are hardly consistent. I wouldn't be surprised if I did the math and Gao has actually landed more 3/3s this season than Gracie. Not to mention Gao's done the 3flip/3toe internationally a couple of times too.

Now I DO think Gracie has better jumps more likely to do the 3/3s. But Gracie's 3/3s aren't exactly Yu-na consistent.

Lol. Whose are?
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
And for the record I'm not censoring Gracie. I"m not sure I have so much of a problem with her on the world team. But what I have a problem with is the double standard. Where some skaters get credit for having good seasons, other skaters don't.

At the end of the day, what I think should have happened is the USFSA should have named Wagner provisionally to the team based on her good season results (but insisted on a test skate before Worlds due to how inconsistent she's been lately). And should have sent Gao, Gold, and Hicks to Four Continents. (I don't think Agnes deserved to place as high as she did at Nationals) and then looked at how well all of these girls did there. Then named the World team. Because I'm sorry Gracie has had one good free skate this season. I think she's a fantastic talent, and I'm not censoring her. But I think using Four Continents would have been a good idea...


Kim's are. Tukt's are becoming very consistent in the long...And a lot of girls have landed them more than Gracie.....And I think her 3/3s are incredible but right now they are extremely hit and miss.

And Gao's been pretty consistently doing more triples in her free skate than Gold has.... And right now being able to consistently do about 5 triples in your program, isn't something to snuff at as uneventful. Especially when you consider Asada got credit for only rotating 4 triples here.
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Gracie Gold's 3-3s 2012-2013 season (international/international comps; not including summer comps)
Successful 3F-3T attempts (no falls/UR): 2/5 (40 percent) Successful at Cup of Russia and FCC
Successful 3Z-3T attempts (no falls/UR): 4/5 (80 percent) Only failure was at 4CC.
Successful 3F-1L-3S attempts: 1/3 (33 percent) She only did this combo at the SLC Senior B early in the season.

So as you can see here, her problem has been with the 3F combos, not sure if it's because she's trying to fix her lip or what.

But her 3Z-3T is actually quite consistent. I believe this is the first competition (including summer comps) that she did not get that combo ratified.
 
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bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Gracie Gold's 3-3s 2012-2013 season (international/international comps; not including summer comps)
Successful 3F-3T attempts (no falls/UR): 2/5 (40 percent) Successful at Cup of Russia and FCC
Successful 3Z-3T attempts (no falls/UR): 4/5 (80 percent) Only failure was at 4CC.
Successful 3F-1L-3S attempts: 1/3 (33 percent) She only did this combo at the SLC Senior B early in the season.

So as you can see here, her problem has been with the 3F combos, not sure if it's because she's trying to fix her lip or what.

But her 3Z-3T is actually quite consistent. I believe this is the first competition (including summer comps) that she did not get that combo ratified.

She may be very like Yu-na than land the big combo but having trouble with the other stuff. It might be a smart idea for her to go for that 3lutz/3toe in the short and then a 3loop as the solo jump.....Her 3lutz/3toe is gorgeous. I'm right now just saying technically she's a bit inconsistent...Its to be expected but I don't think right now assuming she's going to do more technically than Gao wouldn't factor in to what we've seen all season...

Honestly I have a lot more problems with how Wagner was scored at Nationals than Gracie. I think Gracie is a huge talent and get why the USFSA wanted her out there but another part of me is just not sure she's ready for this... And I fear she'll be crucified if she's not perfect right away. I think she's a potential World Champ and don't consider her a headcase or even a disappointment.

However, I feel the USFSA has this tendency of shooting some girls up after one/two skates when the girls haven't really consistently performed well. Than they heap on all these kinds of pressure/expectations before they are ready for it...Its my real concern with Gracie....Not that I don't believe in her talent.
 
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noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
I know everyone is just speculating at this point in time but.......Gracie is still young! She did remarkably well at US Nats her first year as a senior. Don't y'all think her "team" is going to focus on her weaknesses, elaborate on the things she does well, and get her mentally prepared for next year? I just don't know that you can predict how someone is going to react or how they're going to be a year from now. Gracie is charismatic, relates to the crowd, has mad jumps (and I've no doubt they'll get more consistent with time - just like every other young skater's jumps....they aren't born landing triple/triples!) is graceful and flows across the ice. I honestly think she's the future of US women. She has 2 Olympics in her if she stays healthy and continues to love skating. Give her a chance instead of picking her apart.

I think the USFSA is going to nurture anyone they think can bring home a medal - especially a World or Olympic medal. If the skater performs, there will be expectations. Just like in any other sport. I doubt the powers that be are sitting back and worrying about whether they're moving her along too quickly! Hopefully she'll get good guidance from her coach(s) and family.
 
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bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
I know everyone is just speculating at this point in time but.......Gracie is still young! She did remarkably well at US Nats her first year as a senior. Don't y'all think her "team" is going to focus on her weaknesses, elaborate on the things she does well, and get her mentally prepared for next year? I just don't know that you can predict how someone is going to react or how they're going to be a year from now. Gracie is charismatic, relates to the crowd, has mad jumps (and I've no doubt they'll get more consistent with time - just like every other young skater's jumps....they aren't born landing triple/triples!) is graceful and flows across the ice. I honestly think she's the future of US women. She has 2 Olympics in her if she stays healthy and continues to love skating. Give her a chance instead of picking her apart.

I think the USFSA is going to nurture anyone they think can bring home a medal - especially a World or Olympic medal. If the skater performs, there will be expectations. Just like in any other sport. I doubt the powers that be are sitting back and worrying about whether they're moving her along too quickly! Hopefully she'll get good guidance from her coach(s) and family.

Ugh. My biggest issue with Gracie is I don't think she relates well to the crowd at all. She seems emotionless when she skates. It can change, absolutely but I don't find her really a performer right now..

And I'm not predicting how Gracie will be a year from now. I said that I think she's very talented and could be a future World Champion. What people are asking is if she is the best choice for Worlds. Right. Now. If she's ready for the kind of expectations she's getting. Because she's been hit or miss all season long. Now yes there's the point that it may be best for her to get experience now, but if Worlds don't go super well it may hurt her confidence too.

Nobody's saying Gracie doesn't have talent, what people are saying is basically to much too soon is she the best choice for worlds...

It seems to me the USFSA once again picks people based on one or two competitions. Rather than an people who illustrate they can perform well consistently. Wagner was not as nearly hyped as Nagasu/Zhang.. Neither Zhang or Nagasu did particularly well under the expectations they were given. And in someways probably made them far less hungry as well.

What people are saying perhaps it would be better not to hype people based on one skate or they have big jumps and such potential like Agnes (who gets held up far worse than Gold)

But rather look at the ones who perform well and reward those who perform consistently. That's where people are saying Gao has been frankly unappreciated ..

I think Gold is a huge talent by why not make her skate well in several competitions-before you annoint here and heap huge expectations on the girl too. She wasn't that bad here, but she wasn't great too.

I'm not seeing how all of this hype and holding up skaters-actually helps them. Czisny got better when she stopped being held up. So did Zhang. And the list goes on and on.

Look at the pressure poor Sotnikova was under but at least Sotnikova had performed well for several years won everything in Juniors, won several Russian National titles. Gold two years ago didn't even make the Nationals so she's not necessarily the best competitor to begin with. Why not let Gracie get use to competition, win a lot of competitions/not win. Before you hype because she had a good skate.. When she's very likely next week to have a not so good skate. There can be such a thing as setting someone up for failure.

I do see the pluses to getting Gold out there now.. But it may cost someone else an Olympic spot. I think my general problem isn't so much Gold/Wagner as the team as much as how that team got constructed. How the results at US Nationals were so highly questionable. And how the whole "judging went down"........
 
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Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
People screaming for Gao to replace Gracie remind me of the same kind of people who watch football and are always screaming for the backup quarterback to play when the starter is struggling. When the backup does finally play he doesn't end up doing any better then the starter and most times he does worse. There's a reason why he's the backup.
 
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Orange Cat

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
People screaming for Gao to replace Gracie remind me of the same kind of people who watch football and are always screaming for the backup quarterback to play when the starter is struggling. When the backup does finally play he doesn't end up doing any better then the starter and most times he does worse. There's a reason why he's the backup.

Except for the fact that Christina has out-skated Gracie in every international competition, and was arguably held down at Nationals. I think it's a bit late to replace Gracie with Christina, and I'm not sure it would do wonders for Gracie's confidence or her ability to deal with nerves, so I'm not sure whether a replacement should occur (even though I personally prefer Christina's skating).

That said, I do think that there was some USFS favouritism going on, and I know I'm not alone in wondering whether the US selection system needs to be modified slightly.
 

Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
I was wondering the same thing. I haven't found one--I can't remember where on the forum I read this, but I'm sure you could find the post if you looked hard enough. But, knowing how badly Czisny was injured, I wouldn't be surprised...

Since it was my quote, I probably need to back it up :p The practice I attended was the day between the short and the long. Czisny buried herself in the short program so the "3 spots thing" was already pretty much out of the question after the short. The way Czisny was practicing: very bumpy practices, landing some jumps but none as soon as the music came on. Ashley was sitting too far away from me to really judge her facial expressions, plus, there's no way of knowing what went on in her head and I might have been projecting, but she seemd definitely a little sad watching her teammate struggle like that. Also: she didn't watch very long, she had her own practice to prepare for.

R.D. is right in saying that Wagner's official statement was that she focused on herself and had no idea Czisny had skated that badly. It's probably a good thing nobody told her before she had to perform that in case she didn't land in the top 10, the US would be down to 1 spot :p

But basically I'm not surprised there have been no bold statements like Ashley's last year "I'm going to get those 3 spots back". Lesson learned: *both* have to do well and you have no control over the fate of your teammate.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
I don't know whether she can or not. She is working with a sports psychologist. Nerves are frequently blamed for a bad outing. How would anyone know that unless the skater said that was the reason.
 
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