Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure? | Page 10 | Golden Skate

Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure?

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Competitions are not won on IF's. As you well know, they are won by what the skater puts out on the ice at the competition. What is the basis of thinking Gold will not continue her pattern at worlds? In her last two competitions she has had a poor showing in either the short or long program. So she really shows no consistent strength in either. Maybe, in future years that will change, but not this year imo. Right now Christiana is steadier and would increase our chances of getting 3 spots if Ashley does as hoped. Your statement is more supportive of my position than your own.

Gao's potential high score is probably at least 10-12 points lower then if Gracie skates clean. Plus Gao wasn't exactly impressive when she finished last at the GPF. Gao was pretty much forgettable until this year. If she can improve in one year so can Gracie. Nothing that Gao does really stands out she's not real fast nor are her jumps huge like Gracie's. She's Yuna lite.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
All coaches on the international level are tough and demanding. Look at John Nicks, Alexei Mishin, Brian Orser, etc. But accusing a coach of psychologically harming his skater is a ridiculous accusation without concrete proof. If Gracie truly feels that Alex is contributing to her consistency issues, then she can leave him. Simple as that.
I've seen them interact in practice and am not suggesting anything of the sort, just suggesting what someone may point to as their "proof". Alex IS demanding and tough. Alex CAN be short tempered and exacting. Do I believe the comment? No. I've seen them interact and they seem to have a good working relationship. Gold's mother will censure Alex when he oversteps his bounds, so it's not like she gives him 100% free reign.
I think Gold has put enormous pressure on HERSELF which is where the nerves come from - more so than Alex, Scott Brown, her mother, USFS or her twin or anyone else. Once she manages her OWN expectations, she will be formidable, but this is something she needs to learn and the only way to learn is through trial and error.

I think USFS is putting their faith in Gold, Hicks, Edmunds, Bell, Miller, etc because they know the only one with an outside chance at the podium RIGHT NOW this season and next (unless things change drastically in the next 1-12 months) is Wagner and want to get the skaters I mention international experience and READY for the next quadrenium as the ones who were supposed to be the future after Vancouver have fallen short of expectation (Nagasu, Zhang...)
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
I hope Gracie doesn't become like Sasha. Sasha was so determined to be perfect all the time that she of course would always make mistakes that cost her in the LP. Hopefully Gracie will manage her expectations and not be so hard on herself.
 
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Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
What's questionable about pointing out something that we all witnessed? Even sloppy, Gold made it into the Top 6 at a major international competition. The protocols attest to that.

Gold's FS was, to put it kindly, a disaster. One fall, one edge call, one popped jump...how could her TES possibly be higher than Gao's?

What I was questioning was R.D.'s statement: "Sending Christina, who gets neither high PCS nor high TES internationally, would be a mistake."

At this event Gao got higher scores in both categories. His reasoning for not sending Gao on that basis does not hold water.
 

rkuang

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Things should be taken into account but sometimes when the placement or general idea of placements is predetermined it makes it a lot tougher for other skaters to breakthrough. OR, like in Christina's case, skaters do well but aren't scored correctly. I honestly think Christina had a fair case for bronze given her performances. Her mistakes in her programs weren't as bad as Agnes' and (taking into account her season) she had an overall better season than Agnes. Her programs were better choreographed and delivered than Courtney Hicks as well. Christina should not have ended up 5th again...and Agnes shouldn't have gone to 4CC. They should have given that spot to Courtney if she wanted it...

I agree with you here. Personally, I think the impending Olympic season is messing with their heads and where they want the skaters to be (both internationally and mentally). Also, and this is me being a bit of a pessimist, I think the fact that this nationals didn't have many stellar skates also contributed.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
What I was questioning was R.D.'s statement: "Sending Christina, who gets neither high PCS nor high TES internationally, would be a mistake."

At this event Gao got higher scores in both categories. His reasoning for not sending Gao on that basis does not hold water.

That was my quote, actually. R.D. was suggesting that Christina must be nearly flawless to be in the mix, whereas Gracie can afford a few mistakes and still keep her head above water. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Plus, we can't assume from comparison to Gracie's low PCS/TES from two poor skates that Christina's PCS/TES were high. Christina doesn't have the technical execution or the depth of interpretation that would warrant scores as high as those of the Russians, Yuna, Carolina, or Mao. Gracie, on the other hand, has programs packed with technical content--her only trouble is performing it.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
What I was questioning was R.D.'s statement: "Sending Christina, who gets neither high PCS nor high TES internationally, would be a mistake."

You are quoting post #155, which was made by ForeverFish. Those words above are not my words.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I hope Gracie doesn't become like Sasha. Sasha was so determined to be perfect all the time that she of course would always make mistakes that cost her in the LP. Hopefully Gracie will manage her expectations and not be so hard on herself.

I think US fans would DIE to have a Cohen in the mix right now...

At least Cohen was continually on the medal stand (or 4th at worst) even with her mistakes...

When you've got US champions like a Nagasu or a Wagner doing nearly the best they can and STILL unable get on the podium, then you raise an eyebrow...wondering what happened to US ladies, etc...
 
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tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Well becalc I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I think Gracie is hand over hand a more complete skater than Christina Gao. She's alot younger, too, so certainly has time to grow and gain that consistency.

Um, she is just one year younger? I think in fact that she appears more mature on the ice in her presentation and that is why people think she is older.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Gao made NO mistakes in the SP and ONE mistake in the LP. Gold made two mistakes in the SP (and was only behind by 2 points) and 5 or 6 mistakes in the LP. Gold's upside potential for score is higher if she just REDUCES the number of errors. Gao would have to be nearly-perfect to improve her score.

Gold gets PCS love from the judges because of her basic speed and high jumps (when she does them), Otherwise she doesn't really deserve them, to be honest.
Especiallly the PE and IN marks.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I think US fans would DIE to have a Cohen in the mix right now...

At least Cohen was continually on the medal stand (or 4th at worst) even with her mistakes...

When you've got US champions like a Nagasu or a Wagner doing nearly the best they can and STILL unable get on the podium, then you raise an eyebrow...wondering what happened to US ladies, etc...

Miss Thing would be buried under this new system. Well know flutzer, flip isn't so good, actually none of the jumps are good, skating skill is of second tier skaters. Her line and her choreography might be the only thing that is top tier. I think she's guaranteed to be out of final group after the SP, and with at least 1-2 mistakes in the LP, also out of the top 6.

I wonder who would die to have a Cohen in the mix right now?
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Sep 14, 2008
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France
Her edge jumps were good and her skating skills weren't that weak. Her edge quality was a bit weak, but her capability for footwork was great. Amazing spins too, so her tech mark would be fine.

She would have a big advantage in PCS because her ability to perform and execute choreography was phenomenal. Cohen was actually a very good CoP skater. She got hammered for making 1 mistake in the 6.0 system. CoP cares less about mistakes.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Sasha did compete under the new system. Admittedly there have been some changes to the system, but she would have adapted. She fell twice at the Olympics and still pulled off winning a silver medal. Sasha was one of those skaters who personally poured over the rule books to maximize her points rather than leaving that task completely up to her coach and choreographer. Some recent skaters would do well to follow her lead with regard to that.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
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May 19, 2011
I wonder who would die to have a Cohen in the mix right now?

Roughly 7 years removed from Torino, I can definitely appreciate what Sasha did. No, she never had the mental toughness to be the best (waaaay too much of a headcase) but her overall skating was great. Not the best edge quality or technique but she did enough jump wise to stay in the top 3 or 4. Were she competing now she'd get dinged on her flutz like everyone else but the rest of her jumps were good enough to get by. She had beautiful spins and spirals, decent footwork and good speed, plus presence, presentation, line, grace, artistry and that "it" factor.

Personally, I think the US would kill to have Sasha Cohen at this point...
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
I wonder who would die to have a Cohen in the mix right now?
Not me! That's for sure. Sasha was another one of those skaters who would cause me to grit my teeth and bury my fingernails in my palms just waiting for her to fall. And she generally did. The thing about her falls was even weird - she would just kind of sit down on a landing like she hadn't fought hard enough for the it. Her presentation and artistry was always exemplary but didn't care much for the rest of her skating. I was happy she medaled when she did but I would not be in line to kill to get her back and I really don't think she would do well under this scoring system.

But I have to agree with whoever said upthread that the reason I think people are micro-obsessed about Gracie, Agnes, etc. is that there really wasn't a stand-out star at Nationals this year....except Davis and White. In all the other disciplines there are issues. Ashley reverted to her old self with falls, people are worried about Gracie's mental state and consistency, Agnes is an also-ran at best, some don't think Gao has the fortitude, etc. Jeremy blew it! Aaron has jumps and not much else. Miner is vanilla. Our pairs team is young and is going to get eaten up at Worlds. So I guess there isn't really anyone - other than Davis and White - to really depend on to medal at Worlds. I guess it's better to be in this situation this year than next year. All I'm hoping for is that our top National medalists pull it together and put down 2 great skates at Worlds and hopefully get some top 10 finishes.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Sasha did compete under the new system. Admittedly there have been some changes to the system, but she would have adapted. She fell twice at the Olympics and still pulled off winning a silver medal. Sasha was one of those skaters who personally poured over the rule books to maximize her points rather than leaving that task completely up to her coach and choreographer. Some recent skaters would do well to follow her lead with regard to that.

The only thing that would hurt Sasha under the current IJS would be edge calls on her "lutz." She never took off from the outside edge. With skaters not even doing the lutz, I don't think this would hurt her much. I think she would do about the same as before--always in the medal hunt but not always on the podium (and rarely at the top).
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The time has come for me to clarify: I did not intend on stating that people wanted Cohen HERSELF back...the comment was made that it was hoped that Gold would not turn into another Cohen, and my response was that I don't think it would be a bad thing if she became another Cohen because that would mean we'd have another medal contender again, even if she made mistakes. As it stands now, we can't even get on the podium when (close to) clean...
 

rkuang

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
The time has come for me to clarify: I did not intend on stating that people wanted Cohen HERSELF back...the comment was made that it was hoped that Gold would not turn into another Cohen, and my response was that I don't think it would be a bad thing if she became another Cohen because that would mean we'd have another medal contender again, even if she made mistakes. As it stands now, we can't even get on the podium when (close to) clean...

If Gracie keeps up the technical content, she could make small mistakes and still score well, I think. As long as she doesn't have that defeated, dead eyes look before she even begins a program (Sasha had that frequently too, and you just knew she would falter). Besides lacking in artistic, what I think Gracie needs is the fight. Viewers and judges (I think) appreciate a skater who fights to the bitter end, even with mistakes. Wagner had a few skates early this season where her jumps were not great, but she fought really hard to land them. I'm not going to say anything about Wagner's chances and consistency and blah blah, but I personally appreciate her strong will.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Her edge jumps were good and her skating skills weren't that weak. Her edge quality was a bit weak, but her capability for footwork was great. Amazing spins too, so her tech mark would be fine.

She would have a big advantage in PCS because her ability to perform and execute choreography was phenomenal. Cohen was actually a very good CoP skater. She got hammered for making 1 mistake in the 6.0 system. CoP cares less about mistakes.

Her edge jumps, at best, would get +1 GOE. Her loop and Sal were tiny, covered little distance. I don't know if her 2A was any good either.
Her flutz would get -2 GOE at least, because there's no other redeeming quality about that jump.
Her flip probably would get 0 GOE.
Her solo 3T might be her only decent jump, and it doesn't earn any real points.

As for footwork, she is no Carolina Kostner, wouldn't get level 4 and massive GOE. She would just get level 3 like most other second tier girls.

P/E, CH, spins are her strength, but I don't think it's enough. In the SP, I doubt she can crack 62 in the current system, which means she would be out of the top 6 going into the LP.

She fell twice at the Olympics and still pulled off winning a silver medal.
Because everyone else sucked even worse. She would be 10th or so in the 2010 Olympics.

Even Sasha at her peak would be struggling to make top 6 this year. I think she's about the same as Ashley, and we already have an Ashley, no need for a Sasha. If someone wants to die to bring back Sasha, go ahead, but it won't help the skating dynamic in the US at all.
 
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