Why do you love skater X? | Golden Skate

Why do you love skater X?

Pepe Nero

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Reading some posts tonight, I began to wonder: what is it that makes a person *really* love a particular skater or pair/dance team? This discussion has probably already been had here before. I apologize; I am a relative newcomer. I think it is an interesting question that requires some introspection.

I certainly find myself getting defensive when people criticize or otherwise say negative things about Alissa Czisny. I find this bizarre on my own part, because in general I love skaters who challenge traditional gender archetypes, such as Shawn Sawyer (who evinced flexibility usually reserved for female figure skaters) and Tonya Harding (gender norm challenges obvious, even if unintentional). I also get goose bumps when pair and ice dance teams reverse gender roles by having the female partner lift the male partner. Any yet, inexplicably, I love Alissa Czisny, the Platonic form of femininity.

So, my question is: Does anyone have a theory of this (not of my preferences, but of why people like the skaters they like)? I am inclined to think one deceives oneself insofar as one thinks, “I love skater X because skater X is just the best!” Or, less ambitiously, what concrete criteria does a skater have to satisfy for you to love them (i.e., be their defender on internet discussion threads)? :)
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Personally, I love a well-rounded skater. Jumps and spins are great but when a skater has all that plus the ability to bring a program to life, that's when I fall in love.

I grew up in the 90s under 6.0 when artistry and presentation were very important so that's something I value. Jumps are crucial; you can't win without them. However a person who is only capable of jumping doesn't excite me much. My favorite kind of skater can land jumps as well as entertain/move the audience.

Case in point: the big name new seniors this year are Kaetlyn Osmond, Gracie Gold and Julia Lipnitskaya. Of the three, Kaetlyn is my favorite because so far she has that something extra: she's a performer. She doesn't just go through the movements, she feels the music and you can see it in the way she moves. She connects with her music and the audience and it makes her entertaining and memorable to watch. Additionally, she's solid in her jumps (nice lift) and her spins are good too.

Contrasting Kaetlyn to Gracie and Julia...Gracie and Julia are nearly 100% technical skaters as of now.

I like Gracie b/c of her big jumps and I like Julia b/c she has a decent amount of maturity for someone so young plus a high level of consistency which is always good. However IMO both of these girls are very weak when it comes to artistry, musical interpretation and performing.

Julia has a wow factor b/c of her flexibility but I'm already bored with it. In her defense, her crap programs aren't really her fault. At 14, I don't think she has as much input in her choices as someone who is older; therefore, the blame needs to be directed at her team of people (coach, choreographer, etc.). I'd love to see how she'd do with some training from Lori Nichol (to learn how to emote and really listen and feel the music) and some choreography from David Wilson or Tom Dickson.

As for Gracie, I just don't believe her when she skates. She's so rehearsed. The word I always use for her is regurgitate...she regurgitates her choreography and expressions meaning she does the movement or makes the face but never looks like she feels what she's doing...she's just doing it without understanding or connecting to the reason why. That makes her a boring performer to me.

I need more substance from my skaters and as of now, Julia and Gracie leave me cold and bored respectively.

Michelle Kwan always connected to her music, her choreography and the audience. She made you feel something when she skated. She's made me cry more times than I'd like to admit because she's an expert at capturing an emotion and projecting it to the audience through her movement. Additionally, she was a solid technical skater who delivered an incredible number of flawless performances in her career. She had the entire package.

Different people love different skaters for different reasons, but those are mine. A skater who is solid across the board but has that extra sparkle when it comes to performing...that's what I value.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I also love a well rounded skater, and my all-time favorite is Baiul. She wasn't the best jumper but she connected to the music so well; she could be perky, dramatic, or regal depending on what the music called for. Scott H said she had no weaknesses and she really didn't: deep edges, great spins, tremendous speed, and of course an engaging personality. It saddens me that she was only in peak form for a couple of years because I would have loved to see more competitive programs from her.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The first time I saw Skater X perform I was feeling particularly low, trying to cope with a personal tragedy. Skater X came skating along (on TV) and said, "Buck up, Mathman. You’re sad? Check out this spiral. Feel better now?”

Yeah...as a matter of fact, I did. Skater X has never let me down since. :)
 
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L

lowtherlore

Guest
I too like good performers, those who can interpret the music and the program.

Among the newcomers, I actually think Lipnitskaya has good potential to be a great performer, if she can keep her jump consistency intact through puberty. Although her programs are not coherent yet, she seems to know how to move with the notes – a must to be a good performer – in a subtle and unpretentious way. I agree she’s mainly a technical skater at the moment and the display of her flexibility is not well incorporated into the programs and sometimes distracting, but she will learn how to use it better and we will get used to it, I think.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
I cannot stand skater x. I prefer Skater Y. I think greatness is determined by chromosomes. I fell:yay::laugh: in love with Y. It just felt natural given his moves. X did not do anything for me.:p

eta seriously, the performance and classical moves for beauty get me. I'd rather see a beautiful scratch spin-inside or outside -than the ugly ones done today cuz they're "more difficult" Like Mm an Alissa spiral, a Mao spiral a Kwan Leap make my heart soar. And seeing the men do quad combo well and high is truly a thrill. I prefer an artistic performance like Carolina's over better jumps but ugly choreo (Leonova's last2012 LP). For me it is forever art over sport. Surya Bonaly could jump fairly well and they rewarded her, but it wasn't pretty-her skating, I mean to use a bltant example of a World silver medalist who was barely watchable. France has better ladies now, though in that regard to be more current.
 
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Kitt

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Country
United-States
I am also an art over sport person. I love an Alissa spiral, Sasha spiral, and Mao spiral. Also love Johnny's flow out of a 3A. Beautiful lines, a la Rohene Ward. Of course, he's a great jumper too (in both directions!)
 

sapphiresky

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
I love a skater based on how much they can move me with their skating- they show conviction and a love for what they do through their skating, paying attention to not just one element but to every little nuance, and making things look easy. It's also important to me that a skater is not arrogant, but is willing to work hard and continue to improve despite getting to the top, and it's always important to remain humble (so how much I like a skater also depends on how much I like them as a person).
 

iluvtodd

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
United-States
I love a skater based on how much they can move me with their skating- they show conviction and a love for what they do through their skating, paying attention to not just one element but to every little nuance, and making things look easy. It's also important to me that a skater is not arrogant, but is willing to work hard and continue to improve despite getting to the top, and it's always important to remain humble (so how much I like a skater also depends on how much I like them as a person).


sapphiresky, welcome to GS!

Your post basically sums up why I'm such a Todd fan.
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Wow - sapphiresky, you couldn't have said it better. I will say that the one aspect that turns me completely off with a skater is arrogance!!! And that's one of the reasons I've never been able to stomach several male skaters in particular. Like anybody who is at the top of their game in sports, the true classic sportsman is the one who has alot of self-confidence but doesn't smack you in the face with it. They let their performance do the talking!! And the swaggering and the posturing is completely unnecessary! Under the new rules, I appreciate any skater that can get all their elements in with top points but not make you feel like they're just skating from one trick to another to get those points. I like seamless transitions, someone who clearly feels the music and engages their performance with the crowd. I would love to see Michelle Kwan skating at the peak of her competition years under the new rules! To me she embodied all that was good or should be good about figure skating. She was athletic, beautiful, graceful and she could deliver. And in none of the interviews I either read or saw her do did she come off as a spoiled brat who was full of herself!!! I haven't seen enough of the "new" skaters to have a full appreciation for them yet.
 

Pepe Nero

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
The first time I saw Skater X perform I was feeling particularly low, trying to cope with a personal tragedy. Skater X came skating along (on TV) and said, "Buck up, Mathman. You’re sad? Check out this spiral. Feel better now?”

Yeah...as a matter of fact, I did. Skater X has never let me down since. :)

Ha ha, Mathman. Very funny. :)

I appreciate the thoughts on my question everyone has shared. A few people mentioned having a preference for well-balanced skaters: skaters who are both athletic and artistic. Others have mentioned a preference for skaters who move them emotionally. I am inclined to think it would be pretty unreasonable to disagree with these criteria of figure skating goodness.

But I suppose what I meant to ask originally was, what is it in virtue of an person perceives a skater as “well-balanced,” “athletic,” or “artistic”? What is it that causes a skater’s performance to move you emotionally?

When a person has a favorite figure skater (or a few), as I suppose most of us do, she or he tends to discount what they don’t do so well (athletically or in terms of presentation), either in general or in a particular performance. At the same time, one tends to accord special salience to what that skater does especially well. As a result, when the judges’ marks reflect an assessment that diverges for the worse from one’s own, one usually thinks one of two things: (1) the judges/technical panel are being overly-harsh in their evaluation of this skater, skater X; or (2) the judges/technical panel are being fair in their assessment, but the things skater X doesn’t do well are given too much weight in the score (or, the things skate X does well aren’t given enough weight).

For example, when Alissa Czisny has a rough skate (jump-wise), I find myself thinking spins should get more weight in the final score, and that the scoring system is biased against skaters with her strengths.

It is not possible that we are all making objective judgments of which figure skaters are best, most “balanced,” most “athletic,” most “artistic.” Why? Because we disagree. Our disagreement entails one of the following two:

(a) With regard to any of the disciplines, some of us are correct and some of us (most of us, likely) are incorrect about who is best; or

(b) Evaluations of goodness in figure skating are at least partially subjective.

If (b) is correct, then all of us are being at least partially influenced by psychological factors unrelated to objective merit in our assessments of which figure skaters are the best, most balanced, etc. If (a) is correct, then most of us (those of us who are objectively incorrect) are being influenced by psychological factors unrelated to objective merit in our assessments of which figure skaters are the best, most balanced, etc. Thus, either way, it is at least the case that most of us are being influenced (in ways we probably do not usually recognize) by personal psychological factors in our assessments of which figure skaters are best, most balanced, etc.

So, the question I meant to ask originally is: What are these psychological factors? I don’t suppose that they are the same for all of us, though many of them are probably widespread. One hypothesis is that a person favors skaters she or he identifies with personally – if you think a skater is “like you” in some important respect, you will tend to favor them. Another hypothesis is that we favor skaters who share our nationality. I haven’t fully formulated them, but I can imagine other hypotheses involving a person’s (implicit) attitudes about gender and race.

In my original post, I said that I thought answering this question (What are the psychological factors that influence our assessments of skaters?) required introspection. I’m less sure of that now; I sort of think we are better able to identify other people’s psychological biases than we are able to identify our own. Most of us tend to think of our own preferences as objective and rational. :)

(For the record, I think the judges and technical specialists are also subject to these biases, though perhaps less so than lay fans.)
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The study of fandom is an interesting one indeed. Very perplexing in its nature, yet fascinating at the same time.

It's always a great question to ask: what makes one truly a fan of someone- in this case, a particular skater(s)? Is there a sense of attachment to said skater or do you simply watch in passing? How strong is this attachment (i.e. what is the point in which you will drop everything to meet or spend a day with that skater- ha)?

This one has fascinated me- If someone says something non-flattering about your skater - do you feel a need to defend? A need to try to get them to "see the light" and "convert" them? A dislike or even hatred of said person for daring to criticize your favorite? If so, where/how does this need arise? Or do you simply accept that there are differences of opinion and "live in your own world" so to speak?

What are the factors that go into fandom? Personality? Friendship (if you know the skater personally)? Admiration of their work (product on the ice)?

Where does one draw the line between FANDOM and FANATICISM? Or- does one draw a line at all?

As a fan of SKATING (not a particular SKATER) I take the "live in your own world" approach and don't argue or challenge people who don't like it. If they don't like it, then they don't. I certainly am not crazy about folks trying to challenge me when I say I don't like something.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I think the key is, do you like your favorite just as much when he/she fails and when he/she succeeds?

Do you guys remember the Hallmark card commercial, where a mother is sending her daughter out on the ice for her first competition? The mother gives the daughter two cards, and says, "Open this one if you win, and this one if you don't."

So the daughter sneaks and opens the first card. On the outside is says, "Do you know how special you are?" And on the inside: "I do."

Then she opens the second card. "Do you know how special you are?" "I do."

(Aw, I'm breaking my own heart, That's right up there with the one about the birthday card for the piano teacher. :) )
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I think the key is, do you like your favorite just as much when he/she fails and when he/she succeeds?

Do you guys remember the Hallmark card commercial, where a mother is sending her daughter out on the ice for her first competition? The mother gives the daughter two cards, and says, "Open this one if you win, and this one if you don't."

So the daughter sneaks and opens the first card. On the outside is says, "Do you know how special you are?" And on the inside: "I do."

Then she opens the second card. "Do you know how special you are?" "I do."

(Aw, I'm breaking my own heart, That's right up there with the one about the birthday card for the piano teacher. :) )

Wasnt Ann Patrice McDonnaugh (sp) the skater? Oh, the irony...
 

sapphiresky

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
sapphiresky, welcome to GS!

Thanks so much, it's good to be here!:)

I like Mathman's "I think the key is, do you like your favorite just as much when he/she fails and when he/she succeeds? "
The definition of "success"- I suppose is the technical side of things. It's hard for me to dislike a skater when they don't succeed on jumps because often times, their other qualities shine through no matter what. It's good to give skaters a break sometimes and not being on their case every time a mistake is made.

In response to R.D.'s question about fandom: I feel like I have a need to reply to unfair criticisms about a skater if I have more background knowledge about them (most likely because I liked them to begin with to read up more about them) and someone is spreading horrible rumours about them, especially if someone is trolling and writing crappy posts just b/c they really dislike someone. I'm not sure if it has to do with fandom per say, more like having to do with not being able to stand unfair comments.

That being said, it's also hard for me to change an opinion about someone if they have shown an attitude that I've disliked continuously in previous interviews.
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
It's an interesting question.

Two reasons people like a particular skater haven't been mentioned:

1. Because they are of the same religion (another case of identifying with the skater). I remember a case of a particular fan who hated and was very vocal about one skater. When it was revealed that the skater was the same religion as the fan, all of a sudden the fan had positive things to say about the skater. It was quite a shocker.

2. Because someone/many people they either associate with or respect likes that skater. This works in politics too.

3. Because the skater won. Everyone likes to be associated with a winner (another thing that also works in politics)

As to what makes me like one skater or another:

1. Do they surprise me? I am a sucker for something cool, new & creative, or just something I haven't seen before that is perfectly done:
Shawn Sawyer's extreme flexibility/spiral
Rohene Ward's layback and ability to spin both ways
Tonya Harding's Huge jumps
Jason Brown has any number of cool moves
Toller Cranston ditto
Torvill & Dean
Duchesnays
Davis & White's Giselle
Virtue & Moir's Pink Floyd

If a team or skater can keep surprising me most every season, then I become a real fan.


2. Do they have a good sense of musical timing? Do the jumps land or go up on a high point in the music? Do the skaters make me feel the music more intensely? If so, I just love them. (This is one reason I just love the dancers) It is easier to get this effect live than watching TV because of problems synching audio & video feeds)

The Protopopovs :love:

I'm as susceptible as anyone else to rooting for people I've met personally & liked, too, which has nothing to do with whether they deserve to win or not.
 

Butterscotch17

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Reading some posts tonight, I began to wonder: what is it that makes a person *really* love a particular skater or pair/dance team? This discussion has probably already been had here before. I apologize; I am a relative newcomer. I think it is an interesting question that requires some introspection.

So, my question is: Does anyone have a theory of this (not of my preferences, but of why people like the skaters they like)? I am inclined to think one deceives oneself insofar as one thinks, “I love skater X because skater X is just the best!” Or, less ambitiously, what concrete criteria does a skater have to satisfy for you to love them (i.e., be their defender on internet discussion threads)? :)

I have wondered about this, too. The skater that comes to mind for me is Daisuke Takahashi, and even I don't fully understand why I love him so much.

This basically summarizes it all:

I love a skater based on how much they can move me with their skating- they show conviction and a love for what they do through their skating, paying attention to not just one element but to every little nuance, and making things look easy. It's also important to me that a skater is not arrogant, but is willing to work hard and continue to improve despite getting to the top, and it's always important to remain humble (so how much I like a skater also depends on how much I like them as a person).

I started watching skating on the 2010 GP, and Daisuke's skating just grabbed me. I hadn't watched any skating before, so I had no idea who he or any of the others were, but I fell in love with his skating and how he sold the program and performed for the crowd like no one else did. That's why I love his skating. Because he, unlike anyone else, can make me feel. He's really a dancer, and you can tell, when he's on, that his whole body is feeling the music, and I think that's why he can make me feel and move me emotionally. Because he is 100% connected to the music and dedicated to the program and choreography.

And I like him for off-ice reasons, too, for who he is as a person. And it is not the case of identifying with someone, because I am American, not Japanese, and I don't believe we share a religion or anything else that was mentioned. But Daisuke, off-ice, is such a class act. I think of after the earthquake/tsunami in Japan in 2011, when Daisuke came up with the idea to have a charity exhibition to raise money for relief efforts, and proposed it to other skaters. He went ahead and skated in the event, even though he had Worlds just a few weeks away. Also, I read this on the IFS facebook page today, "Heard heartwarming story from Cup of China. At closing banquet raffle Daisuke's coach won a smartphone. As Daisuke already had the same one he decided to give it to Nan Song who attended the banquet wearing a neckbrace. Daisuke told Nan that he wished him a quick recovery and hoped to compete with him at 4CC in Osaka." It is things like this that make me love Daisuke.

I think the key is, do you like your favorite just as much when he/she fails and when he/she succeeds?

The answer to this question is yes. I would like Daisuke just as much if he came in last as I would if he came in first. Even if he were to miss the World or Olympic team, it wouldn't change my opinion of him. He has still given so many beautiful programs that can make my day brighter just by watching them. I like a lot of skaters and there are many that I follow and cheer for, but when Daisuke kills his programs, he has a captivating effect on me, and because of this, Daisuke will always be number one in my eyes.
 
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