Two little questions about pairs and dance

Spirit · Jan 8, 2004

1. Watching Nats last night, I saw two dance teams have the woman go over the man's head, down his back, between his legs and up again. I was confused by this, because I thought the woman can't go higher than the man's head or shoulders, and I was hoping someone could explain.

2. What does the word split in the term split twist refer to? I see twists, but what is supposed to be splitting?

Thanks mucho in advance.

sk8m8 · Jan 8, 2004

Hey Spirit, good questions.

As for #1, I believe that some of the rules have been slightly relaxed to make the dance rules more challanging. What cost Torville and Dean the Gold in thier comeback appearance (Jayne's vault, not a lift, over Christopher's shoulder) MIGHT ( I'm not 100% sure about the 'technician's' definition) be allowed in today's field. Just the same as the "never being more than X number of feet apart for more than X number of seconds" has been relaxed to give dance couples more flexibility if upping the difficulty in doing thier footwork sequences.

For question 2, The "split" refers to the fact that the lady vaults into the air off one leg and brings them together tightly to do the "twist" in the air.

Hope that helps.

icenut84 · Jan 8, 2004

As far as I know, the rule about dancers lifting over the head is to do with the man's hands being above his head when he lifts her, not as much where the woman's body is. A man's not allowed to do a lift where his hands go above his head (such as you get with an overhead lift in pairs), but as long as his hands don't go too high, it's ok. Re: the T&D thing, I believe one or two of the judges pointed the somersault out as being against the rules and that was the reason for their deduction, but Chris pointed out that when Jayne went over his head he wasn't lifting her, as it was initiated by herself to go over. (He also pointed out that it's physically impossible to lift someone over your head from behind, which was what they were basically accused of doing.)

Re: the split twist - the split is supposed to be made by the woman between takeoff and reaching the air position, which is when she pulls in tightly.

Spirit · Jan 8, 2004

Thanks for the answers.

I think I get the idea of the split twist, but I still don't see it in actuality. I see no split -- the lady is tossed in the air with her feet together, she spins around a few times and comes back down. If her feet happen to be apart by a few inches as part of her natural stance at the beginning and end of the move, why is that worthy of mention in the move's name?

If she was tossed in the air and kicked her legs apart in opposite directions -- even a little bit -- before bringing them back together to perform the twist, then I'd see it. But they don't do that.

thisthingcalledlove · Jan 8, 2004

Split triple/double twist

Spirit said:
Thanks for the answers.

I think I get the idea of the split twist, but I still don't see it in actuality. I see no split -- the lady is tossed in the air with her feet together, she spins around a few times and comes back down. If her feet happen to be apart by a few inches as part of her natural stance at the beginning and end of the move, why is that worthy of mention in the move's name?

If she was tossed in the air and kicked her legs apart in opposite directions -- even a little bit -- before bringing them back together to perform the twist, then I'd see it. But they don't do that.

If you can get your hands on a tape of the 1998 Olympics, watch Meno/Sand, and Woetzel/Steuer in the short program. They do a split double twist. Their twist isn't as high as the other contenders during those Olympics, but they do an actual twist. The judges tend to forgive pairs for doing high twists, but doing small splits (Yelena Berezhnaya, who is capable of doing a full split, does almost a half split)

diver chick · Jan 9, 2004

Berezenaya has one of the best split twists in the buisness IMO She does almost perfect splits before the twist. Katia Gordeeva was another one who had beautiful position in the air on the split twists.

If possible play one of these two ladies in slow motion and you will see where the split comes in. As mentioned previously the judges tend to forgive the lack of splits when made up for in height

JOHIO2 · Jan 11, 2004

Anytime you want a link to anything ice dance, try this site to start:
http://www.ice-dance.com/

Is there a site like this for pairs? Hmmmmm....I'll post it if I find one.

tdnuva · Jan 11, 2004

Of course it's not the "same".... but at least it's something dealing with the skaters who do pairs:

http://www.pairsonice.com/

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 12, 2004

Sk8m8 - My personal view on the T&D second place was pure corruption in the judging. Of course, I can not prove that. But who could really enjoy that stupid jitterbug winner when even the bronze medalist was better. Something wrong there. As Zhulin says, the Americans don't know how to play the game. I would presume the Brits neither.

Joe

Spirit · Jan 12, 2004

Okay, I can see the split in split twists, now that I'm looking for them. I don't know why, but I just flat never noticed them before, and probably never would have. Probably because they happen so fast.

I guess I was expecting something to happen in the air instead of on the way up.

Anyhoo, thanks for the answers.

Two little questions about pairs and dance

Spirit

sk8m8

icenut84

Spirit

thisthingcalledlove

diver chick

JOHIO2

tdnuva

Joesitz (RIP)

Spirit

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