2012 Cup of Russia Free Dance | Page 11 | Golden Skate

2012 Cup of Russia Free Dance

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Bezic is prohibited from choreographing for eligible skaters due to her NBC commentating contract. (Frankly though, I'd much rather see her choreography than listen to her biased commentary.)
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I/K - if they fall behind C/L this season, they are really in trouble. B/S already scored 97+ in the US (!!), have a somewhat similar FS and are far better in many aspects (lifts, presenting the male partner (for the first time it's able to see Soloviev, because he isn't hidden between voluminous costumes), concept ("Tosca" means culmination, fitting or not; "Ghost" is falling to pieces because of the dialogue), costumes (B/S understated, but fitting (S) and a bit elegant (B)). Zhulin got it right with them, only the "Carmen - experiment" V/M is such a perfect match (or will be, when cleaned up); Lanotte hasn't the cool arrogance, Capellini hasn't the fire; W/P don't live up to "Malade"; P/B are still superior, but their FD isn't interesting per se.

icewave, Welcome to Golden Skate! Post long & often!

Davis and White should move to Igor and have Tarasova choreograph their programs

Have you forgotten Tarasova's efforts to make Khoklova & Novitski's 2010 Olympic programs? I would not wish that on any ice dancers again:

2009 CoC SD Russian folk dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53daixfppO4

2009 CoC FD Meadowlands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA_fBKoCH-s

In fact, they ditched Meadowlands before Europeans, switching to Firebird, which had been an exhibition for them, but it was not possible to recover.




Bezic is prohibited from choreographing for eligible skaters due to her NBC commentating contract. (Frankly though, I'd much rather see her choreography than listen to her biased commentary.)

I don't care whether she is biased or not; what kills me is that she is not accurate.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
I think the Shibs have a great FD this year...she has matured so much (in a good way) and if he was healthy I think they would have moved up into podium position with it. the SD is kind of odd....they would have pulled off a traditional polka/waltz very easily, and should have just gone that route instead of trying too hard to be original.

Virtue and Moir were better, but the program was still sloppy around the edges. They should perform much better by the GPF and certainly for Canadian Nats. For me, this program makes them have that more European/Russian look on the ice. Big strong movements, dramatic lifts. Its a different feel for them...it's a great program, i just don't love it as much as I thought I would...maybe if once they skate it clean.

I was thinking about how its kind of unfair to the students that Igor left....it seems aparent that they are all suffering in to some extent from the lack of technical expertise on the coaching staff now. Because the Shibs and Meryl and Charlie are all students at the U of Michigan, I don't think they will change coaches. If Marlie lose again at worlds they may but their education on hold until after Sochi and move for a change of coach, but then again, changing coaches the summer before an olympic year sounds like a gamble as well. Virtue and Moir don't really have ties to staying with Marina, but they work so well together I don't see them leaving at all. They are Marina's muse.
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
I think the Shibs have a great FD this year...she has matured so much (in a good way) and if he was healthy I think they would have moved up into podium position with it. the SD is kind of odd....they would have pulled off a traditional polka/waltz very easily, and should have just gone that route instead of trying too hard to be original.

Virtue and Moir were better, but the program was still sloppy around the edges. They should perform much better by the GPF and certainly for Canadian Nats. For me, this program makes them have that more European/Russian look on the ice. Big strong movements, dramatic lifts. Its a different feel for them...it's a great program, i just don't love it as much as I thought I would...maybe if once they skate it clean.

I was thinking about how its kind of unfair to the students that Igor left....it seems aparent that they are all suffering in to some extent from the lack of technical expertise on the coaching staff now. Because the Shibs and Meryl and Charlie are all students at the U of Michigan, I don't think they will change coaches. If Marlie lose again at worlds they may but their education on hold until after Sochi and move for a change of coach, but then again, changing coaches the summer before an olympic year sounds like a gamble as well. Virtue and Moir don't really have ties to staying with Marina, but they work so well together I don't see them leaving at all. They are Marina's muse.

I mostly agree. Davis and White are pretty much screwed at this point. And they will not beat VM in Canada with that ugly FD Marina gave them.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
V/M practice

They aborted the candlestick lift and the rotational lift afterwards looks like it was impeded by I/K (who apparently were quite aggressive during practices, according to one reporter over at FSU).

re: Igor - isn't he still in Michigan? Would D/W or the Shibs really have to upend their education to work with him?
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
V/M practice

They aborted the candlestick lift and the rotational lift afterwards looks like it was impeded by I/K (who apparently were quite aggressive during practices, according to one reporter over at FSU).

re: Igor - isn't he still in Michigan? Would D/W or the Shibs really have to upend their education to work with him?

Yes he is still in Michigan. And I believe that Evan Bates (who went with Igor) is a student at U of M as well.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I/K - if they fall behind C/L this season, they are really in trouble. B/S already scored 97+ in the US (!!), have a somewhat similar FS and are far better in many aspects (lifts, presenting the male partner (for the first time it's able to see Soloviev, because he isn't hidden between voluminous costumes), concept ("Tosca" means culmination, fitting or not; "Ghost" is falling to pieces because of the dialogue), costumes (B/S understated, but fitting (S) and a bit elegant (B)). Zhulin got it right with them, only the "Carmen - experiment" V/M is such a perfect match (or will be, when cleaned up); Lanotte hasn't the cool arrogance, Capellini hasn't the fire; W/P don't live up to "Malade"; P/B are still superior, but their FD isn't interesting per se.

C/l and I/k were less than a point apart at worlds. It could be anything that switches the order this season or keeps it the way it was. B/s needs to beat p/b to show improvement and have the opportunity at euros or gpf. Just like I/k needs to be ahead of c/l b/s needs to beat p/b not just w/p but b/s also needs to show ability to beat w/p In a short dance and w/p can fix their FD and that could leave b/s behind w/p.
 

all that

Final Flight
Joined
May 4, 2007
I was thinking about how its kind of unfair to the students that Igor left....it seems aparent that they are all suffering in to some extent from the lack of technical expertise on the coaching staff now. Because the Shibs and Meryl and Charlie are all students at the U of Michigan, I don't think they will change coaches. If Marlie lose again at worlds they may but their education on hold until after Sochi and move for a change of coach, but then again, changing coaches the summer before an olympic year sounds like a gamble as well. Virtue and Moir don't really have ties to staying with Marina, but they work so well together I don't see them leaving at all. They are Marina's muse.

D/W and Shibs could easily move to Igor if they want. He's not that far from Canton and they've worked with him for years, so it wouldn't be a huge shock. In fact, since they are keeping in touch with him anyway, they could all easily be planning their Olympic programs with him as we speak.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
D/W and Shibs could easily move to Igor if they want. He's not that far from Canton at all, and they've worked with him for years, so it wouldn't be a huge shock. In fact, since they are keeping in touch with him anyway, they could all easily be planning their Olympic programs with him as we speak.

What exactly do you mean they are "keeping in touch?" Are they still going to him for some aspect of their programs? Or do you mean on a more social/friendly setting?
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Igor mentioned that Meryl emails him, congratulations on the success of his skaters etc, but it is social/friendly (as far as we know).
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Igor mentioned that Meryl emails him, congratulations on the success of his skaters etc, but it is social/friendly (as far as we know).

Ah, that makes sense. Neither D/W nor the Shibs strike me as folks that would completely burn ties with old coaches. I don't know about V/M, but there was some mention that they were uneasy about seeing Igor at SC, so perhaps there's more tension there for whatever reason?
 

missysays

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
V/M practice

They aborted the candlestick lift and the rotational lift afterwards looks like it was impeded by I/K (who apparently were quite aggressive during practices, according to one reporter over at FSU).

I loved the tilt of Scott's head waiting at the boards for the caterwauling of I/K's program to end before he and Tessa could start.:laugh:

I think the Shibs have a great FD this year...she has matured so much (in a good way) and if he was healthy I think they would have moved up into podium position with it. the SD is kind of odd....they would have pulled off a traditional polka/waltz very easily, and should have just gone that route instead of trying too hard to be original.

Well, said. I agree that they would have rocked a traditional polka/waltz. I don't think the new one does them any favors- it's too late to change between now and NHK though. According to Alex's instagram, they're on their way to Japan now. Hopefully, a rest this next week will do him some good. He responded to a comment that he's "doing everything I can to get better."

Good luck to them!
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Well, said. I agree that they would have rocked a traditional polka/waltz. I don't think the new one does them any favors- it's too late to change between now and NHK though. According to Alex's instagram, they're on their way to Japan now. Hopefully, a rest this next week will do him some good. He responded to a comment that he's "doing everything I can to get better."

Good luck to them!

So wait you don't think they bought Mary Poppins outfits as backup? ;) Sorry I keep harping on this, but I guess I just want the Italian commentators to go crazy and say "Mary Poppins again?!"

On a more serious note, I hope Alex reecovers -- I'd like to see that dance done with Alex healthy and not suffering though it. It seems that Alex has had to suffer through FDs (4CC, Worlds, COR).
 

CAS

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Now that I've seen all programs from the Zoueva group, I actually feel a bit angry. It seems clear that once again, V/M got Zoueva's best effort by far. Meryl & Charlie and the Shibs got the leftovers, creatively. There have been rumors for so long that Marina favors V/M, and I am now more inclined than ever to believe it. I think D/W and the Shibs should at least give some serious consideration to another coach next season.

Last season many many people were saying Zoueva gave her best to D&W and were angry with what she gave V&M. Believed that Marina gave D&W the best because Meryl was dating Fedor. It seems in so many ways these two teams swap back and forth.

What I think.

Last year D&W were supposed to skate La Strada and the USFSA didn't like it and made them change it. All a bit last minute and fortunately Zoueva had in her mind a program she wanted them to skate to for a long time that they refused, were not interested. They find themselves in a situation where they are in a way desperate for a new FD and therefore much easier for Marina to sell them a program she has already imagined in her mind. She was right, Die Fledermaus suited them beautifully and made a huge impact with fans. This year at some point they dumped their Sinatra FD and had to start from scratch, it would seem this year Meryl picked the alternative, music she loved and we get Notre Dame.

Last year Tessa got music she loved, Funny Face, which was as well received initially as Notre Dame was for D&W ie..not well. This year they had in mind to use Carmen for the SD but were told by someone in ISU it was unacceptable for the polka. Having already played with the idea and music it is decided to switch it out for their FD. It comes to light this is a program idea Marina has tried to sell them for a number of years which they refused. Just as D&W refused DF. Recent interviews tell us it took all summer to make this program and Marina says she pulled in Jennifer Swan to make it less typical. So I believe it's Swan that gave it the quality we are seeing now, before Swan Marina says it was too typical.

What is the common factor here? In a pinch Marina seems to know what to do to bring her teams up competition. Last year in a pinch she gets D&W to skate DF and this year she gets V&M to do Carmen for a SD which likely made it much easier for them to accept as a FD. In both cases Marina's vision of D&W doing a great DF and Tessa being great as Carmen were correct. I don't think it's so much favouritism (unless she decides to swap years she plays favours in which case 2014 is D&W's turn ;)) but rather Marina doing well in a pinch.


Perhaps Marina also allowed Swan in because she was swamped with trying to sort out the three teams, at least two of which have program changes through the off season and likely three (something went on with Shibs SD which was supposed to be MaryPoppins??). I suspect Notre Dame, Carman, Shibs SD have/had very little mileage and runthroughs as all were probably ready late, which is why I'm not ready to write off any of them just yet. Now that they have the basic bones of their programs sorted and have gotten feedback on the levels it's practice, practice, practice and I don't think ANY of these teams need Igor around to practice hard. What makes these teams as good as they are is their own work ethic and drive.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Last season many many people were saying Zoueva gave her best to D&W and were angry with what she gave V&M. Believed that Marina gave D&W the best because Meryl was dating Fedor. It seems in so many ways these two teams swap back and forth.

What I think.

Last year D&W were supposed to skate La Strada and the USFSA didn't like it and made them change it. All a bit last minute and fortunately Zoueva had in her mind a program she wanted them to skate to for a long time that they refused, were not interested. They find themselves in a situation where they are in a way desperate for a new FD and therefore much easier for Marina to sell them a program she has already imagined in her mind. She was right, Die Fledermaus suited them beautifully and made a huge impact with fans. This year at some point they dumped their Sinatra FD and had to start from scratch, it would seem this year Meryl picked the alternative, music she loved and we get Notre Dame.

Last year Tessa got music she loved, Funny Face, which was as well received initially as Notre Dame was for D&W ie..not well. This year they had in mind to use Carmen for the SD but were told by someone in ISU it was unacceptable for the polka. Having already played with the idea and music it is decided to switch it out for their FD. It comes to light this is a program idea Marina has tried to sell them for a number of years which they refused. Just as D&W refused DF. Recent interviews tell us it took all summer to make this program and Marina says she pulled in Jennifer Swan to make it less typical. So I believe it's Swan that gave it the quality we are seeing now, before Swan Marina says it was too typical.

What is the common factor here? In a pinch Marina seems to know what to do to bring her teams up competition. Last year in a pinch she gets D&W to skate DF and this year she gets V&M to do Carmen for a SD which likely made it much easier for them to accept as a FD. In both cases Marina's vision of D&W doing a great DF and Tessa being great as Carmen were correct. I don't think it's so much favouritism (unless she decides to swap years she plays favours in which case 2014 is D&W's turn ;)) but rather Marina doing well in a pinch.


Perhaps Marina also allowed Swan in because she was swamped with trying to sort out the three teams, at least two of which have program changes through the off season and likely three (something went on with Shibs SD which was supposed to be MaryPoppins??). I suspect Notre Dame, Carman, Shibs SD have/had very little mileage and runthroughs as all were probably ready late, which is why I'm not ready to write off any of them just yet. Now that they have the basic bones of their programs sorted and have gotten feedback on the levels it's practice, practice, practice and I don't think ANY of these teams need Igor around to practice hard. What makes these teams as good as they are is their own work ethic and drive.

Great post! :thumbsup: Glad to see logical and thoughtful conclusions rather some of this knee jerk reactions some people seem to have.

Speaking of work ethic, when I read to Shibs' ISU bio to figure out why they were not dressed to skate a Mary Poppins SD and it notes that they train 40 hours a week. That's like a full-time job! And they're going to school too.....they must be good time managers...

In case anyone was wondering V/M work 30-35 hours a week and D/W work 29-31 hours a week. It says Sinitsina/Zhiganshin have work up to 54 hours a week during the summer. :jaw:
 
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emdee

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I read elsewhere that Tessa said that after Marina choreographed the program they felt it was too generic so they brought in Swan who had done the Pink Floyd program.
 

heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Well, ISU bios are interesting...I highly doubt that Sinitsina/Zhiganshin pull in 50+ hours a week during the summer - if so that means that they are also training full time on the weekends with no rest days...hmmm Mr. Shpilband would doubt this....
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Well, ISU bios are interesting...I highly doubt that Sinitsina/Zhiganshin pull in 50+ hours a week during the summer - if so that means that they are also training full time on the weekends with no rest days...hmmm Mr. Shpilband would doubt this....

It seem like a lot, but it said something about "summer camps." So perhaps they pull in extra time during those summer camp weeks. Or perhaps it's just one or two weeks a year. They're probably along the lines of 35 hours a week most times.....
 
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