NHK has a free spot-can they use it? | Golden Skate

NHK has a free spot-can they use it?

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
I was wondering with AC's withdrawal from NHK, can they ask another lady? Or is 8 days out too late to expect someone to throw their bag together and fly around the world to Japan? Do we as Americans have a better shot at that spot, or are we already at the max with 2 skaters going for ladies? Thanks...I have no idea how this works or doesn't. I hope someone can use that spot and like a lot of folks I wish it was katelynn osmond. Is it mostly world rankink that might get one a spot? Thanks for explanation, folks.
 

pitterpatter

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Someone posted a quote from Skate Canada in the Kaetlyn Osmond thread saying SC made a request on behalf of Osmond, but it was too late for NHK to put her in.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
The ISU rules state that the host country does not have to fill a vacancy that occurs 7 days before the day of the Team Leaders meeting (that is, the day before the start of the event). For NHK, the team leaders meeting is on November 22nd. Czisny announced her withdrawal on November 14 in the US. If the announcement was made after 10 AM EST, that would have been November 15th in Japan---7 days before the team leaders meeting.

The JSF declined to fill the vacancy, as is their right.
 
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gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
It's not too late - this is all politics for host federations and they need to go back 12 or more or start another gp.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
It si too bad JSF declined it, but I suppose onme less lady (like Osmond) makes it easier for their ladies...would this be the reasoning? There are so many ladies who would kill to have been invited. NHK is always exciting.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
It's not too late - this is all politics for host federations and they need to go back 12 or more or start another gp.

To their credit, they invited Mirai and didn't have to. Really the blame lies with Alyssa here (if anyone should be blamed).
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
The ISU rules state that the host country does not have to fill a vacancy that occurs 7 days before the day of the Team Leaders meeting (that is, the day before the start of the event). For NHK, the team leaders meeting is on November 22nd. Czisny announced her withdrawal on November 14 in the US. If the announcement was made after 10 AM EST, that would have been November 15th in Japan---7 days before the team leaders meeting.

The JSF declined to fill the vacancy, as is their right.

No Chuck, for ISU purposes re: deadlines, time is not based on local time but CET in Switzerland, where the ISU is headquartered, which is merely 6 hours ahead of EST. Plus, the time difference between JST and EST is now 14 hours in the winter. So technically, the announcement would have been just about midnight on November 15 in Japan. You'd think these announcements aren't exactly news to these federations so it is highly doubtful that JSF really only knew about Czisny's withdraw in the morning of Nov. 15.

The real issue here is not operational but rather political, if I may say it plainly.

Clearly, JSF doesn't want Osmond in NHK for fear she could take away a GPF spot from a Japanese competitor. By Japanese standards, such act is considered cowardice but then, JSF is not known for their honor. Normally, people show some deference when Skate Canada makes requests because it's a good idea to be on SC's good side. In this case, it shows the intensity of the rapidly approaching 2014 Olympics and federations are angling every possible way to give their competitors an edge, even if an unjust one. But on the other hand, I don't think SC is pushing for this as much as some others might think, that's just my perception and I agree with that.

For me, I don't think Osmond missing the chance to qualify for the GPF is a big deal - it may be a blessing in disguise. Seeing how Virtue/Moir missed the 2006 Olympics by a hair, we now know it turned out to be a good idea. I hope Osmond can take time to grow in a healthy pace and not lose sight of her goals, which is to win Canadian Nationals, go to world and finish in the top 10 while maintaining a score above 170+. I also like to see her making adjustment to her program content to be more senior-like and have a complete repertoire of triple jumps up to the Lutz. Those are what really matters, not some wild goose chase of an illusive GPF. To do all that, she will need time to train and adjust and not having to deal with GPF will actually help her preparing for January and beyond.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Normally, people show some deference when Skate Canada makes requests because it's a good idea to be on SC's good side.

Can you elaborate on this thought a little? Why is it a good idea to be on SC's good side. particularly?
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Seriously, I don't think the JSF is afraid of Osmond. It's more like a consideration for Russia (GPF host). Unlike real politics, Japan has long time friendly relationships with Russia in skating world. NHK trophy was originally started as a Japan-Soviet friendship event. Under the current conditions, inviting Osmond could hurt Russian skaters' chances for GPF in Sochi. They also know that the US is not welcoming Osmond. There's no need to displease other (powerful) federations by doing "unnecessary" things.
 

pista04

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
As an international relations student, it makes perfect sense. Actors do what they must to maximize their utility. I doubt it was AC, but USFS that decided to wait to anounce. In doing this and by making sure that JSF does not need to replace, they can increase the chance that Gao/Wagner need less points at TEB to make the GPF. In addition, as stated, it is completely logical that JSF would want to have their skaters who have a chance to qualify in front of a home crowd, Asada and Suzuki, have as big of a chance of doing so as possible. Finally, I am sure that while it has not been clear to the public, skating feds around the world have noticed that an up-and-comer won her GP debut over the likes of Suzuki and Murakami with quite a lot of PCS which some have argued was clearly inflated. Whether they have the proof to say this or whether or not they are concerned about having SC on their side, they may just want to avoid confronting that and instead use political maneuvers to ensure their skaters have the best possible chance at the GPF and that Osmond is out.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
As an international relations student, it makes perfect sense. Actors do what they must to maximize their utility. I doubt it was AC, but USFS that decided to wait to anounce. In doing this and by making sure that JSF does not need to replace, they can increase the chance that Gao/Wagner need less points at TEB to make the GPF. In addition, as stated, it is completely logical that JSF would want to have their skaters who have a chance to qualify in front of a home crowd, Asada and Suzuki, have as big of a chance of doing so as possible. Finally, I am sure that while it has not been clear to the public, skating feds around the world have noticed that an up-and-comer won her GP debut over the likes of Suzuki and Murakami with quite a lot of PCS which some have argued was clearly inflated. Whether they have the proof to say this or whether or not they are concerned about having SC on their side, they may just want to avoid confronting that and instead use political maneuvers to ensure their skaters have the best possible chance at the GPF and that Osmond is out.

Very well put, I concur. Like I said earlier, it's not necessary a bad thing that Osmond doesn't get a 2nd GP. Seeing how many people and various major Feds like Russia, US and Japan all got so "concerned" about a Canadian teenager, it does signal they are worried. But fortunately, the ISU has more members than just the big ones. If played well, using the fact that how come the winner of SCI doesn't get to go the GPF (to make people curious and create a question in their minds) when many of them would be tuning in, it could end up being a good PR opportunity for Osmond and win some sympathy points from the other smaller member Feds - showing how US, Russia and Japan pretty much all ganged up on her. And that could generate some conversations, and help her to be known better by many other international and ISU judges.

At this stage, Osmond is not ready to compete seriously with the big guns. If she does go to GPF and finished dead last, that would just stop her momentum and the buzz. Rather, not showing up yet still being talked about really isn't a bad thing for now. What she needs is training and a clear focus on her goals in order to properly manage the fans and her own expectations. Her time will come.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
The real issue here is not operational but rather political, if I may say it plainly.

Clearly, JSF doesn't want Osmond in NHK for fear she could take away a GPF spot from a Japanese competitor. By Japanese standards, such act is considered cowardice but then, JSF is not known for their honor. Normally, people show some deference when Skate Canada makes requests because it's a good idea to be on SC's good side.

Are these two different ideas or two ideas that are connected? Because honestly, I'm having trouble determining whether the second sentence is only connected to the first or if they are all grouped together. Because by not kowtowing to SC, wouldn't that not be cowardice?


As an international relations student, it makes perfect sense. Actors do what they must to maximize their utility. I doubt it was AC, but USFS that decided to wait to anounce. In doing this and by making sure that JSF does not need to replace, they can increase the chance that Gao/Wagner need less points at TEB to make the GPF. In addition, as stated, it is completely logical that JSF would want to have their skaters who have a chance to qualify in front of a home crowd, Asada and Suzuki, have as big of a chance of doing so as possible. Finally, I am sure that while it has not been clear to the public, skating feds around the world have noticed that an up-and-comer won her GP debut over the likes of Suzuki and Murakami with quite a lot of PCS which some have argued was clearly inflated. Whether they have the proof to say this or whether or not they are concerned about having SC on their side, they may just want to avoid confronting that and instead use political maneuvers to ensure their skaters have the best possible chance at the GPF and that Osmond is out.

I like how well thought-out your post is. I honestly would have never thought of having other federations come into play. But as this does happen in the world every day in the world today, it makes sense that this would happen on a smaller scale as well.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Everyone has their own agenda, bias. Japan wants its ladies in the GPF. Osmond wants a chance to go to the GPF.Czisny wanted to skate and thus waited and waited - deep down she knew she wasn't ready probably (yes, we aren't mind readers but reality and dreams and desire cause all sorts of confusion.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
NHK should invite Osmond. Stir up some interest in the event.

Osmond is not going to knock either of the Japanese ladies, Asada or Suzuki, out of the GP final, nor the only Russian lady in contention, Lipnitsaya, or the top American, Wagner. Those four, together with Korpi, are pretty much set no matter what happens in NHK (barring a disaster by Asada or Suzuki).

I suppose Osmond could win the sixth spot ahead of Gao or Tukh or Zawadski. Still..let them skate for it.
 

hohoho

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Perhaps the Russian Federation should have pushed for Osmond too to assist SC as SC had given Shelepen a spot at SCI
 
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